Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Dino246]

2 Corinthians 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God
HOW DOES BELIEVING the law is good and not done away with change that?

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

WE CAN NOT BE SAVED BY THE LAW, NOR ARE WE CLAIMING TO
HOW MANY TIMES must WE SAY WE ARE NOT until we are no longer accused of it? Can you not read and comprehend?

I believe ONLY SOMEONE WANTING TO SUBVERT GODS TRUTH WOULD DO THAT DAY AFTER DAY.

BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE "LETTER OF THE LAW" IS WHAT SATAN WANTS US TO STAND BY BECAUSE IT IS NOT OF THE HEART. Follow the letter "not the spirit" is all Satans game.

HENCE IT IS WRITTEN UPON OUR HEART. SO WE ARE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTEMENT WHO BELIEVE THE LAW IS NOT GOING ANY WHERE

WHAT WAS THE VEIL THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY? THE VEIL between us and GOD. Washed clean upon repentance. Talk to God

THE VEIL IS UPON THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT WHO AND WHAT was done for us and what was not.

Fyi, normally, ALL CAPS is considered the internet equivalent of shouting.

You state what you are not saying... but what are you saying?

Are we as Christians to abide by the Law (all of it)?
By only some of it (and how are we to determine which "some")?
By only the ten commandments? By some other "selection" from the Law?

For that matter, what exactly do you mean when you use the term "law"?

 

[DeighAnn]

Fyi, normally, ALL CAPS is considered the internet equivalent of shouting.

You state what you are not saying... but what are you saying?

Are we as Christians to abide by the Law (all of it)?
By only some of it (and how are we to determine which "some")?
By only the ten commandments? By some other "selection" from the Law?

For that matter, what exactly do you mean when you use the term "law"?

We are to abide by the "Spirit" of the Law, not the letter. Do you remember when Jesus was being tested? He took what was the "letter" and brought back to the Spirit of the Law, what was originally intended by the law to separate the holy from the profane.

There are those with the law, There are those without the law, There is no in between. When I use the term "law" it is the spirit of the law and what that tells me. I don't even believe I know anyone who owns oxen. Yet when I read what can happen with those who do, the Spirit of the law shines through. I believe God gives us the wisdom and knowledge or shall I say Common Sense with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is how we discern who has the Spirit in them, and who needs to go by the letter.

The debate of no longer "under". I was underneath the tree. I walked away. Tree still there. I am no longer under it. The holy Spirit opens my eyes to how this transfers and I can not make someone understand. Cool. But I will keep on and on and on as long as the "other" side does putting out the truth for those who are learning. I don't expect those who have not "seen" it to.

Law or Lawless. Jesus said not one jot or tittle.....It is not a burden, I am not under it, It does not save me, It doesn't make me righteous etc... before God, AND yet with all that , I still look to it for guidance. I like knowing there is a right and a wrong. I can not figure out how Good and Evil are separated without it. The only one I see in the work of getting rid of the law is satan .

Good fig, Bad fig. Good, Evil, A house divided, bitter and sweet water..... Jesus can not be separated from the law any more that He can be separated from God. Why ANYONE would believe that because Jesus walked the perfect live and died as a payment for our sins means no more law is beyond me.

 

[DeighAnn]

Oh, and the capital letters, I have been writing like that since before the internet existed so hopefully people understand some of us "old" people just are to set in our ways to change. I have tried to tone it down but I feel fake when I don't write like I write and I would rather be misunderstood.

The commandments are untouchable no matter what you call them

 

[Dino246]

We are to abide by the "Spirit" of the Law, not the letter. Do you remember when Jesus was being tested? He took what was the "letter" and brought back to the Spirit of the Law, what was originally intended by the law to separate the holy from the profane.

There are those with the law, There are those without the law, There is no in between. When I use the term "law" it is the spirit of the law and what that tells me. I don't even believe I know anyone who owns oxen. Yet when I read what can happen with those who do, the Spirit of the law shines through. I believe God gives us the wisdom and knowledge or shall I say Common Sense with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is how we discern who has the Spirit in them, and who needs to go by the letter.

The debate of no longer "under". I was underneath the tree. I walked away. Tree still there. I am no longer under it. The holy Spirit opens my eyes to how this transfers and I can not make someone understand. Cool. But I will keep on and on and on as long as the "other" side does putting out the truth for those who are learning. I don't expect those who have not "seen" it to.

Law or Lawless. Jesus said not one jot or tittle.....It is not a burden, I am not under it, It does not save me, It doesn't make me righteous etc... before God, AND yet with all that , I still look to it for guidance. I like knowing there is a right and a wrong. I can not figure out how Good and Evil are separated without it. The only one I see in the work of getting rid of the law is satan .

Good fig, Bad fig. Good, Evil, A house divided, bitter and sweet water..... Jesus can not be separated from the law any more that He can be separated from God. Why ANYONE would believe that because Jesus walked the perfect live and died as a payment for our sins means no more law is beyond me.

Thank you.

If I take this at face value, I conclude that you have been arguing with those who agree with you. The tree analogy is a good one, though I think that your comments about the "other" side were unnecessary. I wonder who is advocating "getting rid of the law"; certainly nobody here that I am aware. My position, and I think it is the position of those on your "other" side, is that we as Christians are not under the Law, though the Law is still "there".

What I think you may be overlooking is the fact that the Law is one, not many, and failing at one point is akin to failing at all... both Paul and James say this (though in different words). The ten commandments were given on Sinai along with the tabernacle design, the rules for priests, the sacrifices, the offerings, the test for the unfaithful woman, and the requirement that the first to stone a wicked man be the members of his own household. It's all one Law.

 

[DeighAnn]

Thank you.

If I take this at face value, I conclude that you have been arguing with those who agree with you. The tree analogy is a good one, though I think that your comments about the "other" side were unnecessary. I wonder who is advocating "getting rid of the law"; certainly nobody here that I am aware. My position, and I think it is the position of those on your "other" side, is that we as Christians are not under the Law, though the Law is still "there".

What I think you may be overlooking is the fact that the Law is one, not many, and failing at one point is akin to failing at all... both Paul and James say this (though in different words). The ten commandments were given on Sinai along with the tabernacle design, the rules for priests, the sacrifices, the offerings, the test for the unfaithful woman, and the requirement that the first to stone a wicked man be the members of his own household. It's all one Law.

Failing at one or failing at all was to be accepted into heaven or not. That is a reason Jesus went back to Noah to preach salvation to all who died under the law so they to could be saved through His sacrifice.

 

[Dino246]

Failing at one or failing at all was to be accepted into heaven or not. That is a reason Jesus went back to Noah to preach salvation to all who died under the law so they to could be saved through His sacrifice.

Respectfully, that makes no sense to me, and says nothing relevant about the topic at hand.

 

[DeighAnn]

Failing at one or failing at all was to be accepted into heaven or not. That is a reason Jesus went back to Noah to preach salvation to all who died under the law so they to could be saved through His sacrifice.

Please try to tell me how the law applies to you and how it does not. as I tried to do Please know that I believe just as you do that the law does not justify me, gives me no righteousness, and has 0 to do with my salvation.

But I believe that there must be law, to be order.

I do believe the day I took the Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour and was baptized that descending into the water I crucified my "flesh" man driven life and I ascended alive in Him in my "spiritual" driven life. I was completely sure that as long as I stayed on course with my "Spirit in charge" life that through the blood shed by Jesus, and through nothing else, nothing I ever did from that point on had anything to do with my place in heaven. Jesus had secured that for me and He would be with me on my walk from that point on.

I also knew, that through my flesh especially because I had given my life to the Lord, that Satan would really be coming after me. I also knew being in the flesh, I had no hope of ever "not sinning" again. Thank God that is was so easy for me to find that forgiveness now. I repent and use it all the time, I am sad to say. Way less than when I started on this journey towards perfection as only He made possible.

But a sinner I am. I am under no delusions that I can even come close to walking the perfect walk of Christ. I am in the flesh, and that flesh is at enmity with my spirit and try as I may the flesh wins sometimes. How do I know this? I have knowledge of God. His laws are written upon my heart and they are what convict me of sin. It is the Spirit of the Law that I live under.

Jesus not being a sinner did not make anyone perfect. We all have our walk to walk. Many are called, few are chosen. That statement alone tells me that many fail. They do all that I have done but one day the flesh wins out and they try no longer. How sad for the ones who were taught there was nothing they could ever do to lose that salvation and having been baby Christians only fed milk never got the meat that would have told them "you can lose it, you can't do what ever you want and be covered because one day you said you believed" unless you stay on the right path you will get sent to the wrong side. No there comes that day when there is no more repentance for sin.

Yes Jesus did His part once, perfect. Not one soul God created ever will. The law allows for confession which allows for grace. No law, No grace. Impossible to live a God fearing life without the Law.

 

[DeighAnn]

Respectfully, that makes no sense to me, and says nothing relevant about the topic at hand.

To only way to make it into Heaven before Jesus died for us, was being 100% perfect under the law, which is/was impossible. When Jesus was in the tomb for the 3 days He was went back and offered the same forgiveness through His grace to those who had died under the Law,

 

[DeighAnn]

Antihistamine going to work. Must go to sleep. Hopefully I have made some sense. Good night

 

[SimpleGardner]

I done nothing of the sort. You must of forgot. We were in Romans. Here...
So once again in respects to Romans 10:4 Why rip that text out of the context it was written?
Start in 9:30 to let say verse 8 in chapter 10.

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 9:30-10:8 KJV)

!0:6-8 is a paraphrase of the words spoken in prophecy to Israel and now again to Israel and throughout the whole world.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:10-14 KJV)

The Word, God's commandments and statutes in the the heart and mouth through Christ is the Faith in which we preach Paul said. Israel did not have this faith. The majority refused it and were only trying to follow the letter of the law and not allowing it in the heart.

For Christ (the word, the law in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the law (written on tebles of stone and parchment) for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Well put...I am not sure we will find common ground with everyone, but we try. I do however feel we should move on to a subject we can both share/teach and learn from.

There is a pattern. it begins with challenges, then questions, then answers which are not addressed, then more questions, usually scriptures that cannot be refuted, and then after a few days you find yourself being asked the same questions and giving the same answers that are again not addressed.

I pray and hope these will hear the finality of verses like:

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have read some accounts, not on this forum, but elsewhere that Revelations or that part of revelations is not from God.

If someone says that I will hear them, but not until they offer some well researched evidence for that, but not because it conflicts with a position they take.

Many of us here seek truth where we take scriptural facts and find a conclusive position, but there are many who find a conclusion for which they must find facts to support. This seems to be the quandary many find themselves in. Too often people find themselves rooted in church families that believe a certain way and to be a part of that family they must conform doctrinally. To disagree doctrinally is to be rejected from that family. Hence the the quandary of "a conclusion in search of facts"

So to try to convince some to see the true conclusion of scripture is the same as asking them to be rejected by their church family. These are all steps along the way of course. Jesus Himself was:

Isa 53:3 KJV He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I would say that being rejected is part of taking up our cross and following Him. I pray that those who argue the facts that come against their conclusions for the sake of being "accepted" will find the moral fortitude to step into the smaller fellowship of believers, fragmented, rejected of men but strong in faith.

As Jesus clarified; these are His true brothers and sisters;

Mat 12:47-50 KJV Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


I appreciate you brother...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry that was to post stamp time.

Sorry, Are you in eastern time Zone? I have nothing with that time stamp. Are you speaking of your response to Dan? Post # 1123 At time stamp 1: 41 (my time)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be
fulfilled.

The lawful use of the law is the condemnation of the wicked
But we also know the law is good, if a man use it usefully

God knows what is right, God knows what is wrong the law is there to guide us.

If someone says they do, but don’t, the law will point them out to us.

Paul the number 1 sinner . How does he know?

Amen

Jesus fulfilled the Law. Even to the point of death (fulfilling the sacrificial law)

And not one jot or tittle will go away, as long as their are non believers on earth, the law still needs to bring people to the point of being “poor in spirit”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Timothy
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

"FROM WHICH SOME HAVING SWERVED"
We have not swerved

THEREFORE THE REST OF THE VERSE DOES NOT EFFECT US, YOU WOULD NEED TO FIND "THE SOME HAVING SWERVED" AND PREACH VERSES TO THEM.

Yeah actually it does. Your no different that the Pharisee preaching law as a means of righteousness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Corinthians 3
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God
HOW DOES BELIEVING the law is good and not done away with change that?

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

WE CAN NOT BE SAVED BY THE LAW, NOR ARE WE CLAIMING TO
HOW MANY TIMES must WE SAY WE ARE NOT until we are no longer accused of it? Can you not read and comprehend?

I believe ONLY SOMEONE WANTING TO SUBVERT GODS TRUTH WOULD DO THAT DAY AFTER DAY.

BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE "LETTER OF THE LAW" IS WHAT SATAN WANTS US TO STAND BY BECAUSE IT IS NOT OF THE HEART. Follow the letter "not the spirit" is all Satans game.

HENCE IT IS WRITTEN UPON OUR HEART. SO WE ARE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTEMENT WHO BELIEVE THE LAW IS NOT GOING ANY WHERE

WHAT WAS THE VEIL THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY? THE VEIL between us and GOD. Washed clean upon repentance. Talk to God

THE VEIL IS UPON THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND ACCEPT WHO AND WHAT was done for us and what was not.

I will ask you. How does the moral law help in your sanctification?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are to abide by the "Spirit" of the Law, not the letter. Do you remember when Jesus was being tested? He took what was the "letter" and brought back to the Spirit of the Law, what was originally intended by the law to separate the holy from the profane.

There are those with the law, There are those without the law, There is no in between. When I use the term "law" it is the spirit of the law and what that tells me. I don't even believe I know anyone who owns oxen. Yet when I read what can happen with those who do, the Spirit of the law shines through. I believe God gives us the wisdom and knowledge or shall I say Common Sense with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is how we discern who has the Spirit in them, and who needs to go by the letter.

The debate of no longer "under". I was underneath the tree. I walked away. Tree still there. I am no longer under it. The holy Spirit opens my eyes to how this transfers and I can not make someone understand. Cool. But I will keep on and on and on as long as the "other" side does putting out the truth for those who are learning. I don't expect those who have not "seen" it to.

Law or Lawless. Jesus said not one jot or tittle.....It is not a burden, I am not under it, It does not save me, It doesn't make me righteous etc... before God, AND yet with all that , I still look to it for guidance. I like knowing there is a right and a wrong. I can not figure out how Good and Evil are separated without it. The only one I see in the work of getting rid of the law is satan .

Good fig, Bad fig. Good, Evil, A house divided, bitter and sweet water..... Jesus can not be separated from the law any more that He can be separated from God. Why ANYONE would believe that because Jesus walked the perfect live and died as a payment for our sins means no more law is beyond me.

Explain spirit of the law

And answer why Paul gave us the purpose of the law and claimed once we have come to Christ we are no longer under a tutor if we still must abide by the law

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Failing at one or failing at all was to be accepted into heaven or not. That is a reason Jesus went back to Noah to preach salvation to all who died under the law so they to could be saved through His sacrifice.

WHAT??????????????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To only way to make it into Heaven before Jesus died for us, was being 100% perfect under the law, which is/was impossible. When Jesus was in the tomb for the 3 days He was went back and offered the same forgiveness through His grace to those who had died under the Law,

Where do you get this? They were saved by grace just as we are. Abraham believed and it was accounted to him as righteousness. David was a man after Gods heart. He was just as saved as everyone today.

100% obedience to the law is still valid. Even today It is still a tutor.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well put...I am not sure we will find common ground with everyone, but we try. I do however feel we should move on to a subject we can both share/teach and learn from.

There is a pattern. it begins with challenges, then questions, then answers which are not addressed, then more questions, usually scriptures that cannot be refuted, and then after a few days you find yourself being asked the same questions and giving the same answers that are again not addressed.

I pray and hope these will hear the finality of verses like:

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have read some accounts, not on this forum, but elsewhere that Revelations or that part of revelations is not from God.

If someone says that I will hear them, but not until they offer some well researched evidence for that, but not because it conflicts with a position they take.

Many of us here seek truth where we take scriptural facts and find a conclusive position, but there are many who find a conclusion for which they must find facts to support. This seems to be the quandary many find themselves in. Too often people find themselves rooted in church families that believe a certain way and to be a part of that family they must conform doctrinally. To disagree doctrinally is to be rejected from that family. Hence the the quandary of "a conclusion in search of facts"

So to try to convince some to see the true conclusion of scripture is the same as asking them to be rejected by their church family. These are all steps along the way of course. Jesus Himself was:

Isa 53:3 KJV He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

I would say that being rejected is part of taking up our cross and following Him. I pray that those who argue the facts that come against their conclusions for the sake of being "accepted" will find the moral fortitude to step into the smaller fellowship of believers, fragmented, rejected of men but strong in faith.

As Jesus clarified; these are His true brothers and sisters;

Mat 12:47-50 KJV Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. (48) But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? (49) And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


I appreciate you brother...

So you think this major lawyer is correct?

This says Alot

 

[SimpleGardner]

Sorry, Are you in eastern time Zone? I have nothing with that time stamp. Are you speaking of your response to Dan? Post # 1123 At time stamp 1: 41 (my time)

Good Morning EG,

I'm sorry about that, I thought it would be easier. No, I'm on central time. Tennessee just passed a law to stay on DST permanently. So that will be an interesting one to stay on top of!

Here's the post I referred to when you asked if the Moral Law was able to Sanctify me:

It cannot. Can you show me where I said that so I can write a retraction/correction?

The Holy Spirit makes us more Christ Like, desirous of doing what is right , putting off the old man. Once the desire to do right is there, a man seeks out Gods will. Paul himself said:

2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Does that make more sense?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good Morning EG,

I'm sorry about that, I thought it would be easier. No, I'm on central time. Tennessee just passed a law to stay on DST permanently. So that will be an interesting one to stay on top of!

Here's the post I referred to when you asked if the Moral Law was able to Sanctify me:

It cannot. Can you show me where I said that so I can write a retraction/correction?

The Holy Spirit makes us more Christ Like, desirous of doing what is right , putting off the old man. Once the desire to do right is there, a man seeks out Gods will. Paul himself said:

2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Does that make more sense?

That makes sense, i think they use your own time when time stamping, it is better to use post number,

Anyway,

How does the moral law work in making us christ like?

That is my question. This post does not explain this, This just says all scripture is god breathed, we agree with that.

There are many parts of scripture. Many parts which have different functions in our sanctification. What part does the moral law have?