Twinkling of an eye
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Same here.......there are 4 things that kill tribulation saints.....Wise men see evil coming and prepare for it.....we can do something about 3 of the 4.......and possibly alleviate all 4 by location.......but hey.....I am convinced the falling away will be directly tied to those who believe they have missed the body presence and our gathering and will fold or give up in desperation..........
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"Rapture" was not promised to OT saints, "resurrection" ['to stand again on the earth'] was (see Dan12:13, for starters; see also Job19:25-27 and Martha's words in John 11:24--THIS was no mystery to OT saints, they understood it quite well--because it is what has been "prophesied" for them).
I've stated in either this thread or another, that Rev20:6 states:
--"Blessed and holy is the one having A PART [G3313 - meros ] in the first resurrection..." (and I've listed the parts of "the resurrection OF LIFE" that do not all occur at the same precise moment [singular moment in time], this is ascertained by viewing the chronology of when they do take place)...
--I've pointed out how the Two Witnesses are "resurrected" at the time of the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe (well before the end of the trib / 2nd Coming to the earth)
--I've shown how 1Cor15:23 says, "[re: resurrection] but EACH [G1532 - Hekastos - (<---this word means, 'of more than two')] IN HIS OWN ORDER" (showing there is a SEQUENCE/ORDER to it; that there doesn't remain only ONE)...
--I've pointed out how in both Scripture and in nature, there is more than a singular "harvest" (thus also more than a singular "firstfruit" [I've shown how the 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the WHEAT harvest, where "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" are involved])
--I've pointed out how that, according to Scripture, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself) is not the "TEN [or FIVE] Virgins [PLURAL]" (pertaining to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," which is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" in both purpose and timing)… IOW, Jesus is NOT coming to "MARRY TEN [or even FIVE] VIRGINS [PLURAL]"!! (that is twisted doctrine!
)
--I've pointed out how the word "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" (1Cor15:51-54) speaks SPECIFICALLY of "the Church which is His body" ('the DEAD IN Christ' and the 'we which are ALIVE and remain unto') not regarding all ppl of all times; and not all saints of all times... but "THIS" [particular BODY of persons]
--I've pointed out the chronology issues
--I've pointed out the unbiblical, made-up definition ppl tend to think when viewing the phrase "the Day of the Lord" (2Th2:2)… and have covered its ARRIVAL point-in-time (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4 / Mk13:5]" of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from there; it is NOT "ONE and done!"); along with its RELATED phrase (speaking of the SAME "time period") "IN THAT DAY" and how both of these phrases are used in 2Th1&2, PROVING it is an extended TIME PERIOD *PRIOR TO* Christ's Own Personal RETURN/Presence-to the earth--Paul in 2Th2 is NOT saying the Thessalonians were distraught over believing "JESUS IS PRESENT" or "the RAPTURE IS PRESENT" or "the KINGDOM IS PRESENT<" but instead [incorrectly being convinced "the DOTL IS PRESENT" (which was a reasonable thing for them to be convinced of, due to their PRESENT, ONGOING, VERY NEGATIVE circumstances they were ENDURING, 2Th1:4. THIS is what they thought "IS PRESENT" (according to 2Th2:2), not other things ppl incorrectly surmise about this verse.
They did not believe the EVENT of v.1 "IS PRESENT" ("IS PRESENT [PERFECT INDICATIVE]" IS the phrase in verse 2... the verse being misconstrued, and resulting in something other than what Paul was actually conveying here)
I've stated in either this thread or another, that Rev20:6 states:
--"Blessed and holy is the one having A PART [G3313 - meros ] in the first resurrection..." (and I've listed the parts of "the resurrection OF LIFE" that do not all occur at the same precise moment [singular moment in time], this is ascertained by viewing the chronology of when they do take place)...
--I've pointed out how the Two Witnesses are "resurrected" at the time of the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe (well before the end of the trib / 2nd Coming to the earth)
--I've shown how 1Cor15:23 says, "[re: resurrection] but EACH [G1532 - Hekastos - (<---this word means, 'of more than two')] IN HIS OWN ORDER" (showing there is a SEQUENCE/ORDER to it; that there doesn't remain only ONE)...
--I've pointed out how in both Scripture and in nature, there is more than a singular "harvest" (thus also more than a singular "firstfruit" [I've shown how the 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the WHEAT harvest, where "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" are involved])
--I've pointed out how that, according to Scripture, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself) is not the "TEN [or FIVE] Virgins [PLURAL]" (pertaining to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," which is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" in both purpose and timing)… IOW, Jesus is NOT coming to "MARRY TEN [or even FIVE] VIRGINS [PLURAL]"!! (that is twisted doctrine!
)--I've pointed out how the word "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" (1Cor15:51-54) speaks SPECIFICALLY of "the Church which is His body" ('the DEAD IN Christ' and the 'we which are ALIVE and remain unto') not regarding all ppl of all times; and not all saints of all times... but "THIS" [particular BODY of persons]
--I've pointed out the chronology issues
--I've pointed out the unbiblical, made-up definition ppl tend to think when viewing the phrase "the Day of the Lord" (2Th2:2)… and have covered its ARRIVAL point-in-time (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4 / Mk13:5]" of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from there; it is NOT "ONE and done!"); along with its RELATED phrase (speaking of the SAME "time period") "IN THAT DAY" and how both of these phrases are used in 2Th1&2, PROVING it is an extended TIME PERIOD *PRIOR TO* Christ's Own Personal RETURN/Presence-to the earth--Paul in 2Th2 is NOT saying the Thessalonians were distraught over believing "JESUS IS PRESENT" or "the RAPTURE IS PRESENT" or "the KINGDOM IS PRESENT<" but instead [incorrectly being convinced "the DOTL IS PRESENT" (which was a reasonable thing for them to be convinced of, due to their PRESENT, ONGOING, VERY NEGATIVE circumstances they were ENDURING, 2Th1:4. THIS is what they thought "IS PRESENT" (according to 2Th2:2), not other things ppl incorrectly surmise about this verse.
They did not believe the EVENT of v.1 "IS PRESENT" ("IS PRESENT [PERFECT INDICATIVE]" IS the phrase in verse 2... the verse being misconstrued, and resulting in something other than what Paul was actually conveying here)
And I think you may have overlooked where I'd put at the bottom of that post (you quoted, I think), that Luke 21:36 is not a "rapture" verse. It's instruction for those existing in/during the trib ("...that ye may have strength to [ACTIVELY] FLEE OUT OF each and every thing coming on the earth [DURING the trib], and TO STAND BEFORE [in a judicial sense] the SON OF MAN [His "Second Coming to the earth" designation]")
… so this answers the part of your question to me regarding the "trib saints" (not all trib saints DIE/are MARTYRED" during the trib... some endure unto the end of it and enter the MK in their mortal bodies... see the wording in Dan12:12, for one passage regarding this [parallel to about 10 "BLESSED" passages in the Gospels & NT regarding that same point in time and circumstance])
… so this answers the part of your question to me regarding the "trib saints" (not all trib saints DIE/are MARTYRED" during the trib... some endure unto the end of it and enter the MK in their mortal bodies... see the wording in Dan12:12, for one passage regarding this [parallel to about 10 "BLESSED" passages in the Gospels & NT regarding that same point in time and circumstance])
Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom ("WITH [G4862]" His ALREADY-WED "Bride/Wife [singular]"]... THEN the meal (the ppl shown in this context are "still-living persons" existing upon the earth upon His "RETURN" there--who then enter the MK age [never having lifted off the earth]).
The problem becomes when people indiscriminately "READ 'the Church which is His body' INTO" any and every random passage they come across...
The problem becomes when people indiscriminately "READ 'the Church which is His body' INTO" any and every random passage they come across...
I agree with you dc, God is fully able to safeguard His people no matter the circumstances going on around them. There is no pre-trib or mid-trib rapture. Those expecting such will be sorely disappointed someday. I believe many saints will be killed during the tribulation, but it won't hurt a spiritual hair on their heads. What an honor to be a martyr.
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I agree with you dc, God is fully able to safeguard His people no matter the circumstances going on around them. There is no pre-trib or mid-trib rapture. Those expecting such will be sorely disappointed someday. I believe many saints will be killed during the tribulation, but it won't hurt a spiritual hair on their heads. What an honor to be a martyr.
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I agree with you dc, God is fully able to safeguard His people no matter the circumstances going on around them. There is no pre-trib or mid-trib rapture. Those expecting such will be sorely disappointed someday. I believe many saints will be killed during the tribulation, but it won't hurt a spiritual hair on their heads. What an honor to be a martyr.
The pre-trib rapture is alive and well as stated in scriptures.
If you remain a Christian after the rapture and those who become a Christian, during the trib. period...no doubt, you will be a martyr.
Best to be prepared and leave as scripture tells us ..."in the twinkling of an eye".
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Those numbers in those parables signify a unknown . 144,000 is a picture of the bride of Christ. She is made op with old testament born again saint as well as new testament saints .As called out ones. We are to know no man after the flesh or gender.
We walk by faith. Not as those who count numbers comparing themselves to themselves.. If that was the case the 144,000 have been filled over the years many times. The Jehovah Witness ran out of numbers in that way and possible the Mormons where they had to change doctrine. . ,they set aside that number to number their qualifying elders. .
What we will be is not what we are.
We walk by faith. Not as those who count numbers comparing themselves to themselves.. If that was the case the 144,000 have been filled over the years many times. The Jehovah Witness ran out of numbers in that way and possible the Mormons where they had to change doctrine. . ,they set aside that number to number their qualifying elders. .
What we will be is not what we are.
The "144,000" (of one nation) are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (plural nations), in Rev7 (though both groups are "saved" persons, i.e. "saints" [having come to faith within/during the trib years]).
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
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The "144,000" (of one nation) are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (plural nations), in Rev7 (though both are "saved" persons, i.e. "saints").
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
144,000 is clearly a metaphor used in the signified language of Revelation . . . not only inspired but also signified understanding hid in parables . . That standard is given in the 1st verse of the book of Revelation. It cannot be over looked and expect things to be rightly divided.
The 144,000 clearly represent the one bride of Christ. She as the mother of us all is made up of many lively stones .She is pictured in Revelation 12 . . . a picture of the bride in the new heavens and earth, clothed with the righteousness of her husband, Christ .The Sun and moon under her feet.Time as run out .the glory of God is the new light. No more night.
She is shown coming down from heaven on the last day the day she will receive her new incorruptible body and in the same twinkling of the eye death will have served it purpose . The letter of the law that kills will not enter the new order.
I cannot think of one biblical reason to make them (144000 outward Jews. Not one. Other than some want their flesh to profit for something more that a one time demonstration of God pouring out his unseen sprit on flesh. Not according to it.
[because] Jesus had said (to the 12), in Lk22:30,16,18 [parallel Matt26:29 "...until THAT DAY when I drink it *NEW* WITH (G3326 - meta - 'accompanying') you"; and Matt19:28 parallel (comp.) Matt25:31-34 for its TIMING], "That ye may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on twelve thrones judgING the twelve tribes of Israel". I believe this will be so, just as He has said.
[note: no one is suggesting that those of Israel who will have NOT come to faith, will be included in the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. No.]
[note: no one is suggesting that those of Israel who will have NOT come to faith, will be included in the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom. No.]