Eternal torment VS Annihilation
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I agree that it is a resurrection, but as far as I am concerned both resurrections, regardless if conditional or unconditional immortality, they happen at the same time. I believe the Millenium in Revelation 20 is rather figurative, there is no other evidence of a LITERAL Millenium Reign but in that chapter.
There is no universal salvation. God is in the process of removing evil from His universe. That said, God is also not going to burn forever any humans or spirits. The final lake of fire will destroy all the evildoers and then the grave and death itself. BTW - Sheol and Hades simply meant the grave until the traditions of man inserted other meanings.
The Lord has promised He will resurrect all of the people after the millennial reign during the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev.20:5;20:12-15). This is pictured in Isaiah 65:17-20. This judgment period will last 100 years, the little season that Satan will be released. The present day saints are not included here.
The judgment of God's people called in this pre-millennial are judged right here on earth during our lifetimes: 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" All we are judged for is our rewards at Christ's return (see 1 John 2:28).
The Lord has promised He will resurrect all of the people after the millennial reign during the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev.20:5;20:12-15). This is pictured in Isaiah 65:17-20. This judgment period will last 100 years, the little season that Satan will be released. The present day saints are not included here.
The judgment of God's people called in this pre-millennial are judged right here on earth during our lifetimes: 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" All we are judged for is our rewards at Christ's return (see 1 John 2:28).
There is no universal salvation. God is in the process of removing evil from His universe. That said, God is also not going to burn forever any humans or spirits. The final lake of fire will destroy all the evildoers and then the grave and death itself. BTW - Sheol and Hades simply meant the grave until the traditions of man inserted other meanings.
The Lord has promised He will resurrect all of the people after the millennial reign during the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev.20:5;20:12-15). This is pictured in Isaiah 65:17-20. This judgment period will last 100 years, the little season that Satan will be released. The present day saints are not included here.
The judgment of God's people called in this pre-millennial are judged right here on earth during our lifetimes: 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" All we are judged for is our rewards at Christ's return (see 1 John 2:28).
The Lord has promised He will resurrect all of the people after the millennial reign during the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev.20:5;20:12-15). This is pictured in Isaiah 65:17-20. This judgment period will last 100 years, the little season that Satan will be released. The present day saints are not included here.
The judgment of God's people called in this pre-millennial are judged right here on earth during our lifetimes: 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" All we are judged for is our rewards at Christ's return (see 1 John 2:28).
Let's look at that: Isa. 66:24 "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." I think that will be a memorial film or archive; kind of what we now have of the Holocaust.
God’s Memorials
Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:
Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?
Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.
Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.
Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.
What about this verse: Rev. 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The “are” in many translations was added for ease of reading but changed the meaning. Below is the NIV version which renders it correctly. Where they were cast. Again, this is just another memorial preserved for the future.
NIV Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
God’s Memorials
Rev. 14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Some things are preserved in God's memory that is just as good as having them on file or archived digitally. His recall is 100%. Here is a case for something in God's memory:
Mark 9:47, 48 "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Come on, a maggot that never dies. What is that?
Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies. Anyway, hades is finally tossed into the lake of fire. You can't do that with a dwelling place.
All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know. I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names.
When God is finished with purging the universe of evil: all the demons and evil people will be completely destroyed.
Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." This establishes identity.
Eze. 28:18: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."
Eze. 28:19: "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." This tells of the fate of Satan. Which is also the fate of those that reject the Holy Spirit anointing by the end of the judgement period.
What about this verse: Rev. 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
The “are” in many translations was added for ease of reading but changed the meaning. Below is the NIV version which renders it correctly. Where they were cast. Again, this is just another memorial preserved for the future.
NIV Rev. 20:10 "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
An infant dying at a hundred years and the (unrepentant) sinner dying at a hundred years being accursed has nothing to do with a future time.
It's how believers come to view life in this world after coming to know Jesus, in who is eternal life.
We used to think a hundered years was a long life, but compared to never ending life it's like dying in infancy, or for a wicked person, being accursed with such a short life.
It's how believers come to view life in this world after coming to know Jesus, in who is eternal life.
We used to think a hundered years was a long life, but compared to never ending life it's like dying in infancy, or for a wicked person, being accursed with such a short life.
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Why then does Isaiah 65:17 speak of the New Heaven and the New Earth. Think it through.
Unbelievers don't see this, because they aren't born anew. Just like they think living to a hundred years old is a long life. It isn't.
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I agree some will rise with there new spirit incorruptible spirit to eternal life others will never rise .
The dead know nothing no pain nothing to lose, nothing to gain.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
God is not mericiless.
Why would some paint him that way other than false pride?
The dead know nothing no pain nothing to lose, nothing to gain.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
God is not mericiless.
Why would some paint him that way other than false pride?
Believers are neither heavens nor earth. If you do not even understand the meaning of a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness, how are you going to understand other things?
1. THE EXISTING HEAVENS AND EARTH WILL CEASE TO EXIST AS THEY NOW ARE
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away...
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2. THE SEA WILL CEASE TO EXIST
...and there was no more sea.
3. THE HEAVENLY BODIES WILL CEASE TO EXIST
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it...
4. THE NEW JERUSALEM WILL PROVIDE LIGHT TO THE EARTH AS A HEAVENLY BODY
...for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof... And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it...
1. THE EXISTING HEAVENS AND EARTH WILL CEASE TO EXIST AS THEY NOW ARE
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away...
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2. THE SEA WILL CEASE TO EXIST
...and there was no more sea.
3. THE HEAVENLY BODIES WILL CEASE TO EXIST
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it...
4. THE NEW JERUSALEM WILL PROVIDE LIGHT TO THE EARTH AS A HEAVENLY BODY
...for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof... And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it...
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First of all Nehemiah, I never said believers are the new heavens and earth. I said believers are included in, they are part of the new creation.
As far as the old being burned up, that doesn't include believers who are currently being transformed into the image of Christ, or the works done by faith in him.
As far as the bride goes, she's reflects the light of God who is Christ to the world now,
Ye are the light of the world. Mt.5:14
She's made clean before the destruction of the temporal. God is building his Temple now. She's revealed complete later.
As far as the old being burned up, that doesn't include believers who are currently being transformed into the image of Christ, or the works done by faith in him.
As far as the bride goes, she's reflects the light of God who is Christ to the world now,
Ye are the light of the world. Mt.5:14
She's made clean before the destruction of the temporal. God is building his Temple now. She's revealed complete later.
