Baptist and Baptism

[Lanolin]

You may not have been of age. A bunch of things happened in the 1960's.
Moral decay began, freedom from controls, me myself and I was the center of young lives, G-d and Bible was thrown out of schools and other secular settings. Read history.

There seems to be some independent baptist that follows scripture but, research to date tells us that mainstream baptist, et al, tossed baptism. Just unilaterally re-interpreted the Bible along with other new, new age religion interpretations.

Wasnt alive then and depends what history you read...american history? World history? Nz history?
Maybe it was just specific to where you are.

Why do you ask anyway. Most baptist churches I know practise baptism and place importance on it, but sometimes it does depend on each church what the 'leaders' believe.

From what I've observe in the years Ive attended baptist churches, there has been some changes, looking at the library books from years ago they were more hardline about certain doctrines. Numbers have dwindled and there was a big thing in the 1990s when churches wanted to go 'seeker friendly' and they had 40 days of purpose sweep through all the churches, attempting to change them and run them, like businesses.

But that seems to have happened in many churches not just baptist. Sometimes churches seem to die off and then sometimes they get revived and its all on again, like the holy spirit just sweeps through. People get converted, everyone gets baptised in mass baptisms, there are healings etc. but sometimes its just one at a time, maybe the trickle reaches a certain point until till it becomes a flood.

 

[preston39]

Wasnt alive then and depends what history you read...american history? World history? Nz history?
Maybe it was just specific to where you are.

Why do you ask anyway. Most baptist churches I know practise baptism and place importance on it, but sometimes it does depend on each church what the 'leaders' believe.

From what I've observe in the years Ive attended baptist churches, there has been some changes, looking at the library books from years ago they were more hardline about certain doctrines. Numbers have dwindled and there was a big thing in the 1990s when churches wanted to go 'seeker friendly' and they had 40 days of purpose sweep through all the churches, attempting to change them and run them, like businesses.

But that seems to have happened in many churches not just baptist. Sometimes churches seem to die off and then sometimes they get revived and its all on again, like the holy spirit just sweeps through. People get converted, everyone gets baptised in mass baptisms, there are healings etc. but sometimes its just one at a time, maybe the trickle reaches a certain point until till it becomes a flood.

The Bible doesn't work that way. One cannot pick and choose. You speak as if that is ok....it is not. It is part of new age religion teachings which also include; OSAS, baptism not necessary, Super grace, repentance not necessary...Christ did it for us, etc.
These are great deceptions spoken of in scripture as part of the end times.

 

[preston39]

Wasnt alive then and depends what history you read...american history? World history? Nz history?
Maybe it was just specific to where you are.

Why do you ask anyway. Most baptist churches I know practise baptism and place importance on it, but sometimes it does depend on each church what the 'leaders' believe.

From what I've observe in the years Ive attended baptist churches, there has been some changes, looking at the library books from years ago they were more hardline about certain doctrines. Numbers have dwindled and there was a big thing in the 1990s when churches wanted to go 'seeker friendly' and they had 40 days of purpose sweep through all the churches, attempting to change them and run them, like businesses.

But that seems to have happened in many churches not just baptist. Sometimes churches seem to die off and then sometimes they get revived and its all on again, like the holy spirit just sweeps through. People get converted, everyone gets baptised in mass baptisms, there are healings etc. but sometimes its just one at a time, maybe the trickle reaches a certain point until till it becomes a flood.

I just noticed;...."what history"...really?
Certainly not the roman empire history!!!!

 

[Lanolin]

The Bible doesn't work that way. One cannot pick and choose. You speak as if that is ok....it is not. It is part of new age religion teachings which also include; OSAS, baptism not necessary, Super grace, repentance not necessary...Christ did it for us, etc.
These are great deceptions spoken of in scripture as part of the end times.

Im not saying its ok its just what ive observed, but what are YOU actually doing about it?

Be an example and go baptise people instead of just talking about it and lamenting oh everything different since 1960.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Does this apply to those who can not be baptized because of physical or medical conditions?
Will God send a person to hell because they are confined to a bed and can not be baptized?

Hey Preston----
Why do you keep avoiding my questions as stated above?????

 

[BillG]

Hey Preston----
Why do you keep avoiding my questions as stated above?????

Because he can't.

It brings the whole theology to its knees.

It negates deathbed repentance.

Just like the thief on the cross.

According to their theology he would have been baptised but backslidden.

The funny thing is given my experience of talking to such people with this theology is that backslidden people as are not saved.

Returned to the vomit.

So why was the thief saved?

Yet MrP states that Jesus can give dispensation to those he can.

But not under the NC.

On one hand you are not saved if not baptised, yet on the other hand Jesus can give special dispensation if you are not baptised, yet you be baptised and backslidden yet still be saved.

It's a Mish mash theology that is circular but constantly returns an error.
No circular reason.

That's why they cannot answer.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Circular reasoning above.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

thing is, even people who have been baptized and agree that we should be baptized, understand it is not salvation

when the Bible says to be baptized it means after you are saved

if baptism saves, then why not be baptized first if water immersion is a part of salvation

water immersion is symbolic of our life being buried with Christ and we become a new creation

faith + this or that is not faith in Christ

while it may soothe the conscience of the religious spirit, it is not what scripture indicates

 

[SpoonJuly]

Because he can't.

It brings the whole theology to its knees.

It negates deathbed repentance.

Just like the thief on the cross.

According to their theology he would have been baptised but backslidden.

The funny thing is given my experience of talking to such people with this theology is that backslidden people as are not saved.

Returned to the vomit.

So why was the thief saved?

Yet MrP states that Jesus can give dispensation to those he can.

But not under the NC.

On one hand you are not saved if not baptised, yet on the other hand Jesus can give special dispensation if you are not baptised, yet you be baptised and backslidden yet still be saved.

It's a Mish mash theology that is circular but constantly returns an error.
No circular reason.

That's why they cannot answer.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Circular reasoning above.

If baptism is necessary, than salvation involves three people.
The one who does the saving (God), the person being saved, and the one administrating the baptism.
So if that third person is not available, then there is no salvation.

 

[BillG]

How many people in the Bible were baptised before they were saved?

Acts 8:34-38
34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Salvation is a very personal thing between an individual and his maker.
No third party needed.

 

[BillG]

If baptism is necessary, than salvation involves three people.
The one who does the saving (God), the person being saved, and the one administrating the baptism.
So if that third person is not available, then there is no salvation.

What about the Holy Spirit?

You say the 3rd is the one administrating the baptism.

 

[BillG]

If baptism is necessary, than salvation involves three people.
The one who does the saving (God), the person being saved, and the one administrating the baptism.
So if that third person is not available, then there is no salvation.

So if no 3rd person why is there no salvation?

 

[SpoonJuly]

What about the Holy Spirit?

You say the 3rd is the one administrating the baptism.

God is the one who saves---
No third party need to complete the process by dunking the person in water.

 

[BillG]

God is the one who saves---
No third party need to complete the process by dunking the person in water.

Thanks for clarifying.

God is the one who saves.

 

[SpoonJuly]

So if no 3rd person why is there no salvation?

Let me be clear----
Salvation is between an individual and God---
Baptism is not necessary----
IF baptism was necessary, AND IT IS NOT, than a third party would be involved to do the dunking.
God does not need third party help---Someone to do the dunking to complete the process of saving a soul.

 

[preston39]

Im not saying its ok its just what ive observed, but what are YOU actually doing about it?

Be an example and go baptise people instead of just talking about it and lamenting oh everything different since 1960.

Why do you think I am here...trying to get folks attention too a great deception that is being heaped upon the uninformed.

(man you talk about attacking the messenger!!! geecch!!)

 

[preston39]

How many people in the Bible were baptised before they were saved?

Acts 8:34-38
34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Who knows the number...and why is that important? Christ was baptized symbolically because He did not sin while on this earth and had no need to be. But, I have had folks to maintain that, that symbolism did not require baptism. Go tell.

Christ required Saul to be baptized before being assigned a task to perform at Christ's direction. Why?

 

[preston39]

Im not saying its ok its just what ive observed, but what are YOU actually doing about it?

Be an example and go baptise people instead of just talking about it and lamenting oh everything different since 1960.

LOL ....who do you think can baptize folks?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Why do you think I am here...trying to get folks attention too a great deception that is being heaped upon the uninformed.

(man you talk about attacking the messenger!!! geecch!!)

you know we have the Bible. you are not God's messenger

if you were, you would not add to what is written

why did Jesus die? why did John the Baptist say someone was coming after him whose shoes (sandals) he was not worthy to untie?

John baptized but Jesus shed His blood

John was the messenger

you have an over inflated view of your importance. we are equal in the eyes of God

when someone believes they have a special message that they must deliver it is most often not God at all but rather something that appeals to their own ego

 

[dcontroversal]

The Bible doesn't work that way. One cannot pick and choose. You speak as if that is ok....it is not. It is part of new age religion teachings which also include; OSAS, baptism not necessary, Super grace, repentance not necessary...Christ did it for us, etc.
These are great deceptions spoken of in scripture as part of the end times.

Hahhahaha......no, actually what you peddle is the age old great deception that has led many to the pit...Cainology......works needed and I must help Jesus save me because his promises, power and work is not enough.........a religionist is exactly what you are.........

Lord, Lord have we not done.......blah blah blah....!!!!