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7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Peter quotes the prophet Joel on the day of Pentecost and explains it as follows:
But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day. And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'"
so again we see that God does not pour out His Spirit willy nilly but only on those who call on His name
it is important to remember that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, so, if a person is not saved and has not turned from sin, God is not pouring out His Spirit on them except to convict them of sin and even then it does not mean they will turn to God
as we know many converts were Gentile...as we follow Paul we see him writing to Gentiles converted to belief in Christ as their Savior...so it is error to state Joel was only speaking of Israel
further, Peter states 'these' are not drunk...referring to the 119 people behind him speaking in tongues...so we do see that speaking in
tongues can be misinterpreted as something not of God as we have seen a number doing in this thread and in other threads that discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit
it is vital to understand the order of the book of Acts and the fact that Peter told the gathered crowd below the building from which he spoke, that that which they were witnessing was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel in the book by the same name
there is only one gospel and those of us who are following Christ here and do speak in tongues and do have various spiritual gifts, have said so countless times while those who apparently are not afraid to lie, continue to accuse us and state ridiculous things that no one has said
But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and manifest day. And it shall be that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'"
so again we see that God does not pour out His Spirit willy nilly but only on those who call on His name
it is important to remember that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, so, if a person is not saved and has not turned from sin, God is not pouring out His Spirit on them except to convict them of sin and even then it does not mean they will turn to God
as we know many converts were Gentile...as we follow Paul we see him writing to Gentiles converted to belief in Christ as their Savior...so it is error to state Joel was only speaking of Israel
further, Peter states 'these' are not drunk...referring to the 119 people behind him speaking in tongues...so we do see that speaking in
tongues can be misinterpreted as something not of God as we have seen a number doing in this thread and in other threads that discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit
it is vital to understand the order of the book of Acts and the fact that Peter told the gathered crowd below the building from which he spoke, that that which they were witnessing was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel in the book by the same name
there is only one gospel and those of us who are following Christ here and do speak in tongues and do have various spiritual gifts, have said so countless times while those who apparently are not afraid to lie, continue to accuse us and state ridiculous things that no one has said
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, were saved and a part of the body of Christ before water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of these Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. Praise God!
absolutely
and this is why I keep stating that it is imperative to study Acts and understand the sequence of events
those events do not always follow the same timeline
there is only one way to be saved and that is through faith in Christ. there are no exceptions and no law and no works
that is salvation. the rest, is following Him and discerning His will and what it means to walk in the Spirit
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Here we go. The origional op. By someone who is no longer a member of CC by the way.
Its not about tongues people. Those trying to continue to defend them are in essence supporting this persons idea of how people are saved. A false Idea I may add. Shared by at least two others in this thread. Maybe more??
U
UnderGrace
Guest
EG I see what you are arguing, however according to the OP tongues as part of salvation, (not everyone here), one has to look at modern day languages (aka "tongues"...... the antiquated word for languages, not to be confused with the physical tongue
)So the underlying premise that modern day unintelligible speech is even related to what happened in Acts is key......
Paul was not writing about the manifestation of "cloven tongues" like in Acts he is writing about languages as a non miraculous gift like "helps" and 'governments"
So there is no way around discussing "languages"
GOSPEL of SALVATION by water baptism and speaking in tongues.
If "glossolalia" is evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit it has to be addressed first actually.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am laughing at the people defending it. Thus defending the gospel the op is trying to preach.EG I see what you are arguing, however according to the OP tongues as part of salvation, (not everyone here), one has to look at modern day languages (aka "tongues"...... the antiquated word for languages, not to be confused with the physical tongue
So the underlying premise that modern day unintelligible speech is even related to what happened in Acts is key......
Paul was not writing about the manifestation of "cloven tongues" like in Acts he is writing about languages as a non miraculous gift like "helps" and 'governments"
So there is no way around discussing "languages"
GOSPEL of SALVATION by water baptism and speaking in tongues.
If "glossolalia" is evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit it has to be addressed first actually.
And I am not sure I agree.. His premise is that tongues and water baptism are required. All that needs argued is the fact neither of those things are true.
I do not need to argue against tongues or water baptism to prove those things are not required.
No it isn't. There isn't a shred of evidence for that interpretation anywhere in Scripture. The gift of "speaking in tongues" (PLURAL, I might add!), is the Spirit-given ability to speak in a language (one or more) that the speaker has not naturally learned.
Where is the evidence that Cornelius went out and made disciples? Nowhere; yet he spoke in tongues.
There isn't only one sign. There are many. They are not metaphors; they are actual signs.
Your mockery is just silly and only reflects on you.
So you think the gospel is merely making noise without understanding? Wow. That is clear evidence of your error.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
When I read the OP I see someone giving "tongues" center stage, and he rationalizes his position by connecting it to salvation thinking he has a foolproof formula.
As we all know compete nonsense.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Well maybe, but if modern day tongues/glossolalia are not a mainifestation of the Holy Spirit his whole argument is moot..... I think the only what to tackle this is to understand Paul's instruction to the church at Corinth.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I would just call it what it is. A false gospel in any day. In fact all you have to do is prove water baptism is false and you have him there a lot less confrontational than tongues
U
UnderGrace
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not so sure why tongues is so hotly debated. It’s crazyWell that is true!!
I think perhaps because many people either want and/or believe 'modern tongues' to be something that it is simply not.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well that’s a movements issue not so
Much a tongues issue. But I would agree with you
It accompanies the new age, any sign even falling back. They are on the increase .Holy laughter, Holy tears . the list goes on . The gospel of experiencing wonderment. Those who do not walk by faith as it is written. Having, none to walk by . the Deuteronomy 32 kind. Makes me wonder as the query found in Luke 18.?
Speaks of certain sign and wonder seekers (no faith) who trust in themselves that they were self righteous proved by there actions (self edification) The experiences of walking by sight despising others that believed in a God, not seen . This is seeing no man can serve two masters. The temporal things of men seen and the eternal things of God not seen . Peter learned that in Mathew 16 . . . . . get behind me Satan he said to Peter.
Luke 18:7-9 King James Version (KJV) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
If there isn't a shred of evidence for that interpretation anywhere in the tongue of God, Scripture? Where can we find it? Is it a unknow tongue as a unknown wonderment ?
Tongues is prophecy . What do you think the new language of a believers is when he offers the gospel that can drive our demons (lying spirits) Is it if God make a noise without meaning and it scares the pants off them demons and will it cast them out? That kind of new tongue? Boo?
God provided one to prove whether we walk by sight or by faith the unseen . . Once a person fails that test, metaphors like poison used to represent false doctrine seem less dangerous. One of those things not to try at home.
Acts 28:4-6 King James Version (KJV) And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Psalm 58:4Their poison is like the poison of a "serpent": they are like the "deaf adder" that stoppeth her ear;
Psalm 140:3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.
Many metaphors are used to represent believing once . Not as those who crucify Christ again and again every time they self edify themselves make a sound or fall backward do something outwardly to confirm something. Men do not fall backward for no reason or make sounds without understanding.
The new tongue is the gospel as that which can cast out the lying spirits. It not today I will drink poison and after that seek after a new tongue unknown gibberish and after that seek to cast out demons.
I remember a Pentecostal brother in Christ I worked with. He locked himself in solitude in a 8 days seeking ceremony until a unfamiliar sound rang in his ears. never made any sense to me other than they wanted to be heard by someone. .
ASV And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues
The believers speaks the new tongue (gospel) in the name of the lord, as it is written. With their new tongue (not Boo) the word of God as His tongue it cast them out .
And here I thought the mocking was for those who "yet for all prophecy to in include tongue they refused to hear". Do you fall backward? It mark the ones that mock God and see no evil in doing so . Those who yet for all prophecy to in include tongue they refused to hear prophecy the tongue of God
Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips (mocking deriding) and another tongue will he speak to this people To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.