Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Celinne said:
The Law was for Israel. To keep the Law, you need to be circumcised, be Jewish, do works, and offer an animal sacrifice.

Romans 10:4 says,
"4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Galatians 3:24 says,
"24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

Romans 3:25 says,
"25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Now we are in the Church age, where Christ died for our sins, and Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of it.

Once you are justified, you can do works because you love God so much, that you want to show Jesus how much you love him. Under the Law, you did works because you had to, not because you wanted to.

Galatians 5:22 says,
"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

I got saved a few weeks ago by the blood of Jesus, and I do works, not to be justified, but because I love God. Once you are saved, it is not wrong to live for Christ with the fruit of The Spirit, and do works, because you know that you cannot compare to sinless perfection, and that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and rose again the third day, according to the scriptures.

God's grace be with you!
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And also with you. Who is Israel? Jacob who wrestled all night with the angel of the Lord was renamed Israel and long story short there are 12 tribes, long story on that also, 10 who went into Assyrian captivity and the 2 southern went into captivity...long story and while Judah and Benjamin mostly went back to Jerusalem the other 10 tribes of Israel were scattered through out the world and most of them are now the Christian Nations, America In God we Trust being one of those nations ..... Jesus "fulfilled" all the blood sacrifices" circumcision being one of them. The Lamb of God, the last blood sacrifice and all the statutes and ordinances that went along with the sacrificing of the animals He fulfilled also. He also rent the veil from top to bottom, no longer need a priest to talk to God. We are no longer "under the law" because when we were if you did not get 100% on your test, you failed. The blood of Christ, means that if you didn't get 100%, you still "could" make it. The law lost all its power on getting you into heaven or keeping you out of heaven (which is all wrong as to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord, long story). But what did Jesus say about the rest of the Law? NOt DESTroy a jot or tittle. THE Law is no longer written on stone MOSES style, it is now written upon your heart JESUS style. But it is still there you are just not enslaved by it.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was but a shadow, an outline. But when the real thing comes into view you get detail. What did Jesus say, it used to be against the law to commit adultery, now just THINKING ..... It used to be written in stone, you could have said you didn't know, now it is INSIDE YOU no more excuses. Just because Jesus walked without sin to show us it could be done does not make you have no sin. Anyone who says they are without sin is a liar. What is sin? transgression of the law, or as someone put it to me, lawlessness. Another gentle soul pointed out the law is no longer a burden because it is super easy once you crucify your flesh and lead a Spirit driven life.

So no, the law does not get you into heaven or wash you clean, Jesus does that. Did Jesus pay the price for our sins? Yes, the ones we repent of. I hope this helps a little. Keep up the great work in the Word. Love to see it and so much more than me, Our Lord
 
Dan_473 said:
Sounds like you do accept the Hebrew and Greek text that the KJV is based on, cool!

James is talking in Acts and he says
Acts 21: 24. Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

James concluded that they observe no such thing. No such thing as what? The thing he said at the end of the previous verse, "keepest the law".
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I could not find it to be James, but I did just a quick read, and the "we believe" and "we have written", doesn't convince me, I would need to really take some time on this but with all the other places and things written, I must come back to what Jesus said as the authority on the whole topic and that is "to fulfill and not a jot or tittle" till...You know, its written upon your heart.
 
DeighAnn said:
And also with you. Who is Israel? Jacob who wrestled all night with the angel of the Lord was renamed Israel and long story short there are 12 tribes, long story on that also, 10 who went into Assyrian captivity and the 2 southern went into captivity...long story and while Judah and Benjamin mostly went back to Jerusalem the other 10 tribes of Israel were scattered through out the world and most of them are now the Christian Nations, America In God we Trust being one of those nations ..... Jesus "fulfilled" all the blood sacrifices" circumcision being one of them. The Lamb of God, the last blood sacrifice and all the statutes and ordinances that went along with the sacrificing of the animals He fulfilled also. He also rent the veil from top to bottom, no longer need a priest to talk to God. We are no longer "under the law" because when we were if you did not get 100% on your test, you failed. The blood of Christ, means that if you didn't get 100%, you still "could" make it. The law lost all its power on getting you into heaven or keeping you out of heaven (which is all wrong as to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord, long story). But what did Jesus say about the rest of the Law? NOt DESTroy a jot or tittle. THE Law is no longer written on stone MOSES style, it is now written upon your heart JESUS style. But it is still there you are just not enslaved by it.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was but a shadow, an outline. But when the real thing comes into view you get detail. What did Jesus say, it used to be against the law to commit adultery, now just THINKING ..... It used to be written in stone, you could have said you didn't know, now it is INSIDE YOU no more excuses. Just because Jesus walked without sin to show us it could be done does not make you have no sin. Anyone who says they are without sin is a liar. What is sin? transgression of the law, or as someone put it to me, lawlessness. Another gentle soul pointed out the law is no longer a burden because it is super easy once you crucify your flesh and lead a Spirit driven life.

So no, the law does not get you into heaven or wash you clean, Jesus does that. Did Jesus pay the price for our sins? Yes, the ones we repent of. I hope this helps a little. Keep up the great work in the Word. Love to see it and so much more than me, Our Lord
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Oh I am so sorry, I meant to say the nation of Israel in my post.

I am going to post a few verses I have already quoted to make a point.

Romans 10:4 says,
"4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"

The Law does not apply to anyone today in the Church Age.

Romans 3:25,
'25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Colossians 1:14
"14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

God forgives all of our sins, not just the sins we have quit. God's blood washed all of our sins, past, present, and future. His precious Blood is powerful enough to wash any sin away, even the ones we haven't repented on.

God's grace be with you!
 
Celinne said:
Oh I am so sorry, I meant to say the nation of Israel in my post.

I am going to post a few verses I have already quoted to make a point.

Romans 10:4 says,
"4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"

The Law does not apply to anyone today in the Church Age.

Romans 3:25,
'25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Colossians 1:14
"14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

God forgives all of our sins, not just the sins we have quit. God's blood washed all of our sins, past, present, and future. His precious Blood is powerful enough to wash any sin away, even the ones we haven't repented on.

God's grace be with you!
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Not according to Romans 3:25 just "past" "Col 1:14 have redemption doesn't say no law" "Rom 10:4 end FOR righteousness, not law"
 
DeighAnn said:
And also with you. Who is Israel? Jacob who wrestled all night with the angel of the Lord was renamed Israel and long story short there are 12 tribes, long story on that also, 10 who went into Assyrian captivity and the 2 southern went into captivity...long story and while Judah and Benjamin mostly went back to Jerusalem the other 10 tribes of Israel were scattered through out the world and most of them are now the Christian Nations, America In God we Trust being one of those nations ..... Jesus "fulfilled" all the blood sacrifices" circumcision being one of them. The Lamb of God, the last blood sacrifice and all the statutes and ordinances that went along with the sacrificing of the animals He fulfilled also. He also rent the veil from top to bottom, no longer need a priest to talk to God. We are no longer "under the law" because when we were if you did not get 100% on your test, you failed. The blood of Christ, means that if you didn't get 100%, you still "could" make it. The law lost all its power on getting you into heaven or keeping you out of heaven (which is all wrong as to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord, long story). But what did Jesus say about the rest of the Law? NOt DESTroy a jot or tittle. THE Law is no longer written on stone MOSES style, it is now written upon your heart JESUS style. But it is still there you are just not enslaved by it.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The law was but a shadow, an outline. But when the real thing comes into view you get detail. What did Jesus say, it used to be against the law to commit adultery, now just THINKING ..... It used to be written in stone, you could have said you didn't know, now it is INSIDE YOU no more excuses. Just because Jesus walked without sin to show us it could be done does not make you have no sin. Anyone who says they are without sin is a liar. What is sin? transgression of the law, or as someone put it to me, lawlessness. Another gentle soul pointed out the law is no longer a burden because it is super easy once you crucify your flesh and lead a Spirit driven life.

So no, the law does not get you into heaven or wash you clean, Jesus does that. Did Jesus pay the price for our sins? Yes, the ones we repent of. I hope this helps a little. Keep up the great work in the Word. Love to see it and so much more than me, Our Lord
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Greetings DeighAnn,

I can see you are probing deep into the history and details many do not care to discuss. I find these things critical to proper interpretations. There are many more details that I would be interested in knowing if you have uncovered them yet. Difficult to discuss in some circles though.
 
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SimpleGardner said:
Greetings DeighAnn,

I can see you are probing deep into the history and details many do not care to discuss. I find these things critical to proper interpretations. There are many more details that I would be interested in knowing if you have uncovered them yet. Difficult to discuss in some circles though.
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Like this one?
 
DeighAnn said:
Like this one?
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Yes, or at least the some of them....

I do find it helpful to consider even what many even myself consider ludicrous if only to dispel the notion, and at times to allow the Holy Spirit room to uproot error in base knowledge from past false teaching.
 
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SimpleGardner said:
Greetings DeighAnn,

I can see you are probing deep into the history and details many do not care to discuss. I find these things critical to proper interpretations. There are many more details that I would be interested in knowing if you have uncovered them yet. Difficult to discuss in some circles though.
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Were you the one who told me it just goes round and round?
 
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DeighAnn said:
Were you the one who told me it just goes round and round?
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Maybe, certainly thought it!

This would be my first time offering and only because I see depth to your study, but my email in plain to see in my profile if you wish to flesh out some details in progress.
 
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DeighAnn said:
I could not find it to be James, but I did just a quick read, and the "we believe" and "we have written", doesn't convince me, I would need to really take some time on this but with all the other places and things written, I must come back to what Jesus said as the authority on the whole topic and that is "to fulfill and not a jot or tittle" till...You know, its written upon your heart.
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I believe it is James and all the elders doing the speaking.

Acts 21: 18. And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

I believe they also identify themselves as participating in the letter writing in Acts chapter 15.

but I am troubled by your phrase '...and "we have written", doesn't convince me...'


Please take all the time that you wish, but
if James, who possibly grew up around Jesus, and all the elders with him can write something and it doesn't convince you or sway you, I'm not sure if there is value in exchanging words on a forum.

perhaps it's better if we just praise the Lord together!
 
Dan_473 said:
I believe it is James and all the elders doing the speaking.

Acts 21: 18. And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

I believe they also identify themselves as participating in the letter writing in Acts chapter 15.

but I am troubled by your phrase '...and "we have written", doesn't convince me...'


Please take all the time that you wish, but
if James, who possibly grew up around Jesus, and all the elders with him can write something and it doesn't convince you or sway you, I'm not sure if there is value in exchanging words on a forum.

perhaps it's better if we just praise the Lord together!
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Whenever a conflict arises I will always go with what Jesus or God said over everyone else. I understand the Bible is the Word of God but it is not all the words of God. Take the first 38 chapters of Job. God says himself
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? That is 38 Chapters that are to prove and teach us a lesson, but they are not Gods words, or His wisdom, they are for edification. There are times we read, where I tell you, and it isn't God telling us. I take that stuff very serious.
 
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DeighAnn said:
Whenever a conflict arises I will always go with what Jesus or God said over everyone else. I understand the Bible is the Word of God but it is not all the words of God. Take the first 38 chapters of Job. God says himself
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? That is 38 Chapters that are to prove and teach us a lesson, but they are not Gods words, or His wisdom, they are for edification. There are times we read, where I tell you, and it isn't God telling us. I take that stuff very serious.
Click to expand...


This one lights that point up too:

Jer 8:8 NIV "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
 
3rdAngel said:
Thanks this is an interesting thread. I have not read it all but I believe you are correct as it says in Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus has not come to abolish the law. If it is not abolished than it is still in force today. Paul, James and John all say that it's role is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; John 3:4 and James 2:10-11 to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith Galatians 3:20-22. It does make you think are we really following God's word of man made traditions. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the OP.

God bless
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Google the name David Bivin and you will find useful information about the words ABOLISH and FULFILL, like the one below:

“Destroy” and “fulfill” are technical terms used in rabbinic argumentation. When a sage felt that a colleague had misinterpreted a passage of Scripture, he would say, “You are destroying he Law!” Needless to say, in most cases his colleague strongly disagreed. What was “destroying the Law” for one sage, was “fulfilling the Law” (correctly interpreting Scripture) for another.

What we see in Matthew 5:17ff. Is a rabbinic discussion. Someone has accused Jesus of “destroying” the law. Of course, neither Jesus nor his accuser would ever think of literally destroying the Law. Furthermore, it would never enter the accuser’s mind to charge Jesus with intent to abolish part or all of the Mosaic Law. What is being called into question is Jesus’ system of interpretation, the way he interprets Scripture.”

http://pneumareview.com/the-jewish-idioms-abolish-and-fulfill/

I believe that Jesus reinterpreted (fulfilled) the Law during His earthly ministry. In other words, He did not abolish (misinterpreted) the law of Moses.
 
Marcelo said:
Google the name David Bivin and you will find useful information about the words ABOLISH and FULFILL, like the one below:

“Destroy” and “fulfill” are technical terms used in rabbinic argumentation. When a sage felt that a colleague had misinterpreted a passage of Scripture, he would say, “You are destroying he Law!” Needless to say, in most cases his colleague strongly disagreed. What was “destroying the Law” for one sage, was “fulfilling the Law” (correctly interpreting Scripture) for another.

What we see in Matthew 5:17ff. Is a rabbinic discussion. Someone has accused Jesus of “destroying” the law. Of course, neither Jesus nor his accuser would ever think of literally destroying the Law. Furthermore, it would never enter the accuser’s mind to charge Jesus with intent to abolish part or all of the Mosaic Law. What is being called into question is Jesus’ system of interpretation, the way he interprets Scripture.”

http://pneumareview.com/the-jewish-idioms-abolish-and-fulfill/

I believe that Jesus reinterpreted (fulfilled) the Law during His earthly ministry. In other words, He did not abolish (misinterpreted) the law of Moses.
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Greetings Marcelo,

Thank you for sharing that insight into Jewish idioms.

I believe that we will one day see the wisdom in the confusion that offers two open gateways, lawlessness or Lawfulness.

As with all matters among mankind, there are tests of character that are being observed.

Choices choices....

Jos 24:15 KJV ....., choose you this day whom ye will serve; .............but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

If, as many try to twist, that Paul received directly from Jesus a gospel that abolishes the law then why did Jesus support His words during His first advent to John in the book of Revelation?;

Rev 14:12 KJV Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And:

Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

There is no end to the lengths many will go to do an end run around righteousness.
 
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