Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Dan_473]

Zechariah 7: 12. And they made their heart as the adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts sent in his spirit by the hand of the former prophets: so a great indignation came from the Lord of hosts.

 

[DeighAnn]

I think a thread following how they apply to our lives today would be a really good idea. I would like to learn. It is hard for me to write about because to separate the Law from the Word seems most unnatural. Is it really more important to stand behind a belief than to have a truth revealed and to thank the Lord for it? Some of my best days in the Word are those with a "revelation" and all the truth that floods in afterwards. I think of is as a deck of cards when you do the little bridge and they all come back together as one deck. That is how one truth will take all those "facts" and make them fit perfectly into that new "reality"
I know almost nothing about "religions" or "schools of thought", I really just study the Word, so find myself very lost in these discussions with all the "big words" I don't know and worse don't want to even look up. I just know that when I read some posts my whole being gets upset, so yes, I would love to learn.

 

[DeighAnn]

Hi DeighAnn,

I still check back every now and then. Did you want to respond to my last post? Or shall we consider the matter closed?

I will have to go find it. I am sorry if I ignored it, not intentional.

 

[DeighAnn]

I don't understand the first part of your post, the part that ends with the word "seem". Was it supposed to continue on?

which part of my post were you referring to when you said it does not work better for you? The idea that 1st John 3:4 is better rendered as
sin is being without law?

You know I did answer this but I may not have hit the reply button or it is attached to another response because it will do that. And sometimes get me into misunderstandings.

Anyway I have no idea where the "seem" was leading. Did not know the last time either. As for the translation that works better for me it is "sin is transgression of the law" as opposed to "sin is being without law" even though they both work really well, but for different situations. Is that legal?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Hi DeighAnn,

I still check back every now and then. Did you want to respond to my last post? Or shall we consider the matter closed?

Greetings Dan,

I think you and DeighAnn are in agreement on the core issues.

I think a thread following how they apply to our lives today would be a really good idea. I would like to learn. It is hard for me to write about because to separate the Law from the Word seems most unnatural. Is it really more important to stand behind a belief than to have a truth revealed and to thank the Lord for it? Some of my best days in the Word are those with a "revelation" and all the truth that floods in afterwards. I think of is as a deck of cards when you do the little bridge and they all come back together as one deck. That is how one truth will take all those "facts" and make them fit perfectly into that new "reality"
I know almost nothing about "religions" or "schools of thought", I really just study the Word, so find myself very lost in these discussions with all the "big words" I don't know and worse don't want to even look up. I just know that when I read some posts my whole being gets upset, so yes, I would love to learn.

Greetings DeighAnn,

I assure you, you already have the Law in your heart ( you will see what I mean), but to actually have particulars articulated in writing makes it very exciting and even more important; a second witness to what the Holy Spirit has put in your heart and mind.

For example; In Deuteronomy (Second Law) chapter one (Verse 3, King James Version) “And it came to pass ... that Moses spake unto the children of Israel according to ______ that the Lord had given him in _________________________ unto ________".

There is so much in Deuteronomy. I think Moses gave Israel all this information/commandments over several days in speeches. The setting is that after the 40 years in the wilderness they were camped at the edge of the Jordan river poised to enter the promised land. Think about that for a minute. This is why Moses was going over the laws again, to remind them how to govern themselves, their animals, their neighbors, their neighbors animals, their children, their parents, their businesses and government and dealings with other nations, and so much more!

There are qualifications For Leadership. In Deuteronomy 1:13 Moses gave three qualifications for elected leaders:
a. __ __ __ __.
b. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. __ __ __ __ __.
Then in In verses 16 and 18, Moses used the words "at that time." "That time" is recorded in Exodus 18:13-27. Four additional qualifications for leaders are listed. They are:
a. __ __ __ __ MEN
b. Such as __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. MEN of __ __ __ __ __.
d. Hating __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.

Wouldn't we do well to follow these today! I hope you don't mind the fill in the blanks. Tell me if you do.

 

[BibleNugget]

Almost all things we experienced in life are extracted from God’s laws whether we know it or not.

Here are a few verses about the release of debts:

Deuteronomy 15:1 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.
Deuteronomy 15:2 And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

Nehemiah 10:31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

 

[Dan_473]

You know I did answer this but I may not have hit the reply button or it is attached to another response because it will do that. And sometimes get me into misunderstandings.

Anyway I have no idea where the "seem" was leading. Did not know the last time either. As for the translation that works better for me it is "sin is transgression of the law" as opposed to "sin is being without law" even though they both work really well, but for different situations. Is that legal?

Acts 17: 11. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so.

 

[Dan_473]

Greetings Dan,

I think you and DeighAnn are in agreement on the core issues.



Greetings DeighAnn,

I assure you, you already have the Law in your heart ( you will see what I mean), but to actually have particulars articulated in writing makes it very exciting and even more important; a second witness to what the Holy Spirit has put in your heart and mind.

For example; In Deuteronomy (Second Law) chapter one (Verse 3, King James Version) “And it came to pass ... that Moses spake unto the children of Israel according to ______ that the Lord had given him in _________________________ unto ________".

There is so much in Deuteronomy. I think Moses gave Israel all this information/commandments over several days in speeches. The setting is that after the 40 years in the wilderness they were camped at the edge of the Jordan river poised to enter the promised land. Think about that for a minute. This is why Moses was going over the laws again, to remind them how to govern themselves, their animals, their neighbors, their neighbors animals, their children, their parents, their businesses and government and dealings with other nations, and so much more!

There are qualifications For Leadership. In Deuteronomy 1:13 Moses gave three qualifications for elected leaders:
a. __ __ __ __.
b. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. __ __ __ __ __.
Then in In verses 16 and 18, Moses used the words "at that time." "That time" is recorded in Exodus 18:13-27. Four additional qualifications for leaders are listed. They are:
a. __ __ __ __ MEN
b. Such as __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. MEN of __ __ __ __ __.
d. Hating __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.

Wouldn't we do well to follow these today! I hope you don't mind the fill in the blanks. Tell me if you do.

I like this passage too

Deuteronomy 17: 16. And when he is made king, he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor lead back the people into Egypt, being lifted up with the number of his horsemen, especially since the Lord hath commanded you to return no more the same way.


which says to me beware of significant military spending and confidence in the military.

 

[Dan_473]

Acts 17: 11. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so.

My mistake and apologies! This post got messed up. It's supposed to say

I'm not sure what you mean by
Is that legal.

if you're asking me if I think it's a good idea, to go with what works the best as opposed to what's the most accurate, I would say well, no I don't think so.


here's some more details, and you can check it out for yourself at
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/3-4.htm


see that last word in the verse? anomia?
that's basically the Greek word for law, with the prefix for "no" in front of it. Very similar idea to the word atheist, which is the word Theos with that same prefix in front of it.

so an atheist is no-God and anomia is no-law. why the KJV translators chose transgression of the law is beyond me. I do think it has led many today to non scriptural conclusions.

 

[Grandpa]

Here's another way to look at this topic:

Those who reject the Law are literally "under the burden of the Law"

Those who receive the guidance of the Holy Spirit which writes the Law upon their heart, are no longer "under the burden of the Law" because they are in conformity with it!

Pauls words:

Gal 5:18 KJV But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

"under the law" would be better understood if we recognized it as a "term" that means buried by the immense pressure of something we cannot lift. But as Paul clarifies it: "But IF ye be led of the Spirit..." The Law is no longer an immense pressure!

Take a look:

Rom 7:18-25 KJV For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. (20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. (22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul recognizes his old carnal man is "under the Law"/buried by it, but through Jesus Christ he finds a renewed mind with which to serve the LAW!


Rom 8:7-11 KJV Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


The Spirit of life is righteousness! What is righteousness? Those who are not "under the law" but through the Spirit "Serve the Law"

That's some pretty good circular reasoning. I see legalists and judaizers try to use it all the time. They love it.

But its not what scripture says and its not what the Lord Jesus says.

Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Dead to the law does not mean serve the law, no matter how hard you wish for it.

If you are trying to still serve the law then you are NOT living unto God and NOT in the Spirit. Only those who are dead to the law are living unto God and in His Spirit.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you are still trying to serve the law then you are making a mockery of Christianity and what Christ gives us. Even though it SEEMS like the righteous and holy thing to do to the carnal mind it is not.

It is the mistake of the Pharisee. They thought they were spiritually superior to all men because of the law they thought they followed, too.

 

[Dan_473]

I like this passage too

Deuteronomy 17: 16. And when he is made king, he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor lead back the people into Egypt, being lifted up with the number of his horsemen, especially since the Lord hath commanded you to return no more the same way.


which says to me beware of significant military spending and confidence in the military.

In the same idea

Psalm 33: 17. A horse is a vain thing for safety, neither does he deliver any by his great power.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Almost all things we experienced in life are extracted from God’s laws whether we know it or not.

Here are a few verses about the release of debts:

Deuteronomy 15:1 At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.
Deuteronomy 15:2 And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

Nehemiah 10:31 And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

You are so right! It is sad to think just how Godly men used to be and how ungodly we are as a society today If we were to meet men from several hundred years ago, they would be appauled at our indifference towards sin. If we took the time to study/meditate on the Laws of God, it would serve to influence our own behaviour and to eliminate our indifference or apathy towards ungodliness. So, our behaviour would serve as an example and an influence. But, I think Joshua 1:8 John 14:21 are the keys.

 

[SimpleGardner]

In the same idea

Psalm 33: 17. A horse is a vain thing for safety, neither does he deliver any by his great power.

And the Humility aspect:

1Ki 1:33 KJV The king also said unto them, Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon:

Zec 9:9 KJV Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Mat 21:5 KJV Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

 

[DeighAnn]

My mistake and apologies! This post got messed up. It's supposed to say

I'm not sure what you mean by
Is that legal.

if you're asking me if I think it's a good idea, to go with what works the best as opposed to what's the most accurate, I would say well, no I don't think so.


here's some more details, and you can check it out for yourself at
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/3-4.htm


see that last word in the verse? anomia?
that's basically the Greek word for law, with the prefix for "no" in front of it. Very similar idea to the word atheist, which is the word Theos with that same prefix in front of it.

so an atheist is no-God and anomia is no-law. why the KJV translators chose transgression of the law is beyond me. I do think it has led many today to non scriptural conclusions.

To use the "different" translation depending on the situation. (like the no-law for those who believe it is "gone" and transgression when someone is breaking it) hence the "is that legal" question.

 

[SimpleGardner]

In the same idea

Psalm 33: 17. A horse is a vain thing for safety, neither does he deliver any by his great power.

Does it ever strike you that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdoms of this world have inverted principals?

Humility is greater than pride and arrogance.

Being poor is greater than being wealthy

ans so on.

When I meditate on that and think hoe Jesus had no home and was meek and lowly and how he reflected God Himself, then God would appear to a worldly man as a poor broken nothing of a man to the n'th degree!

 

[DeighAnn]

Greetings Dan,

I think you and DeighAnn are in agreement on the core issues.



Greetings DeighAnn,

I assure you, you already have the Law in your heart ( you will see what I mean), but to actually have particulars articulated in writing makes it very exciting and even more important; a second witness to what the Holy Spirit has put in your heart and mind.

For example; In Deuteronomy (Second Law) chapter one (Verse 3, King James Version) “And it came to pass ... that Moses spake unto the children of Israel according to ______ that the Lord had given him in _________________________ unto ________".

There is so much in Deuteronomy. I think Moses gave Israel all this information/commandments over several days in speeches. The setting is that after the 40 years in the wilderness they were camped at the edge of the Jordan river poised to enter the promised land. Think about that for a minute. This is why Moses was going over the laws again, to remind them how to govern themselves, their animals, their neighbors, their neighbors animals, their children, their parents, their businesses and government and dealings with other nations, and so much more!

There are qualifications For Leadership. In Deuteronomy 1:13 Moses gave three qualifications for elected leaders:
a. __ __ __ __.
b. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. __ __ __ __ __.
Then in In verses 16 and 18, Moses used the words "at that time." "That time" is recorded in Exodus 18:13-27. Four additional qualifications for leaders are listed. They are:
a. __ __ __ __ MEN
b. Such as __ __ __ __ __ __ __.
c. MEN of __ __ __ __ __.
d. Hating __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __.

Wouldn't we do well to follow these today! I hope you don't mind the fill in the blanks. Tell me if you do.

No, I absolutely love the fill in the blanks. Opens my eyes to how long it has been since I really gave it the time it deserves. But it is all like that. The best book and chapter seems to always be the one I am reading right now. I have to discipline myself to stick to one at a time (though I allow myself side trips) or I would just constantly jump around and that is bad, for me. No, fill ins are great because I know I will do it, but so will everyone else, like it or not.

 

[DeighAnn]

Does it ever strike you that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdoms of this world have inverted principals?

Humility is greater than pride and arrogance.

Being poor is greater than being wealthy

ans so on.

When I meditate on that and think hoe Jesus had no home and was meek and lowly and how he reflected God Himself, then God would appear to a worldly man as a poor broken nothing of a man to the n'th degree!

What I love about it most are those are who we will spend eternity with. God knows who and what He likes and this "test" is the best thing ever in my opinion. I can't wait until truth and trust and goodness reign and we have THE KING as our King. I think that is what I love so much about Heb 4:12. Can't wait.

 

[SimpleGardner]

No, I absolutely love the fill in the blanks. Opens my eyes to how long it has been since I really gave it the time it deserves. But it is all like that. The best book and chapter seems to always be the one I am reading right now. I have to discipline myself to stick to one at a time (though I allow myself side trips) or I would just constantly jump around and that is bad, for me. No, fill ins are great because I know I will do it, but so will everyone else, like it or not.

I know what you mean. I remember beginning to study out a position in Genesis chapter 1. As I began to study it, and meditate on it it began to open up and expand and reveal itself and by the time I finished that aspect of the study I made it to the third chapter too and it took 4 years! Blew me away! Genesis, especially the first three chapters are so incredibly revealing that it is almost hidden. Like opening a foam mattress that comes packed in a small box! Once you clip the straps it fills the room, only Genesis is x 1000!

 

[SimpleGardner]

What I love about it most are those are who we will spend eternity with. God knows who and what He likes and this "test" is the best thing ever in my opinion. I can't wait until truth and trust and goodness reign and we have THE KING as our King. I think that is what I love so much about Heb 4:12. Can't wait.

Yes, as John said: Rev_22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

[Dan_473]

To use the "different" translation depending on the situation. (like the no-law for those who believe it is "gone" and transgression when someone is breaking it) hence the "is that legal" question.

In my opinion, no, that would not be legal. The writer had a particular thing in mind when the words were written, a particular idea.

But let me ask you this, would you prefer it if we just stuck to the KJV? If the King James says it, that's good enough for us! ?