Do you want the truth? Here is the truth about eschatology

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delirious said:
Adam was created from the dust. Christ is a Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). As those who are born of the dust are dust, so those who are born of the Spirit are spirit. Humans always want to put a physical spin on the resurrection and God's kingdom because we spend our whole lives in a physical universe in a physical body and it is naturally how we think. God's kingdom is spiritual.
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In some degree yes your correct but you got to be careful about saying things have already happened.

Matt 24
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
 
delirious said:
Adam was created from the dust. Christ is a Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). As those who are born of the dust are dust, so those who are born of the Spirit are spirit. Humans always want to put a physical spin on the resurrection and God's kingdom because we spend our whole lives in a physical universe in a physical body and it is naturally how we think. God's kingdom is spiritual.
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lol, your hung up betwixt things your confusing the tense,the things were going on,they had gone on, they took place then and(kai,lol) are in the midst of fulfillment now.
 
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And I think there’s no doubt the word will is used properly in this verse.

Matt 24
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.

sounds very odd to say words are about to never pass away.
 
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delirious said:
Adam was created from the dust. Christ is a Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). As those who are born of the dust are dust, so those who are born of the Spirit are spirit. Humans always want to put a physical spin on the resurrection and God's kingdom because we spend our whole lives in a physical universe in a physical body and it is naturally how we think. God's kingdom is spiritual.
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You obviously do not study much or reject truth man....

Jesus was in a resurrected BODY WHEN HE TOLD THOMAS TO TOUCH HIM, WHEN HE ATE FISH and WALKED WITH THE DISCIPLES....

Man you have a lot to learn, unlearn and grasp......!!
 
JamOn said:
In some degree yes your correct but you got to be careful about saying things have already happened.
Matt 24
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
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I am very careful with Scripture. All the verses I listed in this original post all say the same thing and they allow for no other time frame. People can accept it or reject it. That's up to them.

You linked Matt 24:36. Jesus is saying that during His ministry He did not know when His second coming would be but He knew it would be in His generation. Read Matt 16:27-28. Jesus knew it was in His generation. He did not know the day or the hour though.

Jesus said His coming would be like the days of Noah. Noah didn't know the day or the hour either but he also knew it would be in his generation/lifetime. He was told to build an ark. Then what happened?

In Genesis 7:4 He is told in seven more days that God will send the flood. What does Revelation say? Revelation 1:1, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE HIM (meaning Jesus did not possess it before) to show His servants—things which must SHORTLY take place." Jesus was told right before His second coming which would destroy the unbelieving Jews just like the flood destroyed the unbelieving world in Noah's day.
 
delirious said:
I am very careful with Scripture. All the verses I listed in this original post all say the same thing and they allow for no other time frame. People can accept it or reject it. That's up to them.

You linked Matt 24:36. Jesus is saying that during His ministry He did not know when His second coming would be but He knew it would be in His generation. Read Matt 16:27-28. Jesus knew it was in His generation. He did not know the day or the hour though.

Jesus said His coming would be like the days of Noah. Noah didn't know the day or the hour either but he also knew it would be in his generation/lifetime. He was told to build an ark. Then what happened?

In Genesis 7:4 He is told in seven more days that God will send the flood. What does Revelation say? Revelation 1:1, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE HIM (meaning Jesus did not possess it before) to show His servants—things which must SHORTLY take place." Jesus was told right before His second coming which would destroy the unbelieving Jews just like the flood destroyed the unbelieving world in Noah's day.
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Yes think about what your saying father?
 
JamOn said:
In some degree yes your correct but you got to be careful about saying things have already happened.

Matt 24
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
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His view that states Christ is a spirit is false.......CHIRST CAME IN FLESH, RESURRECTED IN GLORIFIED FLESH......Christ is a spirit is some JW crap that is false....
 
Matt 24:6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

1. What Jesus meant here is that such events as the one in 70AD are just the beginning and not the end.

2 Pet 3:5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2. The previous world passed by water (Noah's flood) and the current world is reserved for fire through which the ungodly will pass.
In 70AD, the ungodly had the upper hand, don't you think so?

Maybe you just misunderstood.

3. If Daniel's 70 weeks ends up in 70AD, you need to show in calculation, not just words.
 
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Noose said:
Matt 24:6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

1. What Jesus meant here is that such events as the one in 70AD are just the beginning and not the end.

2 Pet 3:5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2. The previous world passed by water (Noah's flood) and the current world is reserved for fire through which the ungodly will pass.
In 70AD, the ungodly had the upper hand, don't you think so?

Maybe you just misunderstood.
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Amen and did the world pass away by fire.....nope....
 
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dcontroversal said:
His Christ is a spirit is false.......CHIRST CAME IN FLESH, RESURRECTED IN GLORIFIED FLESH......Christ is a spirit is some JW crap that is false....
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Maybe he just saying the spirit of Christ within the vessel created, which was kind of another unnatural way to come about.
 
JamOn said:
Maybe he just saying the spirit of Christ within the vessel created, which was kind of another unnatural way to come about.
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Words mean everything...he said CHRIST IS A SPIRIT......clear enough.....and so far only cults peddle that rigmarole......
 
delirious said:
Adam was created from the dust. Christ is a Spirit. God is a Spirit (John 4:23-24). As those who are born of the dust are dust, so those who are born of the Spirit are spirit. Humans always want to put a physical spin on the resurrection and God's kingdom because we spend our whole lives in a physical universe in a physical body and it is naturally how we think. God's kingdom is spiritual.
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No one's denying there's a spiritual aspect (presently... IN us).


However, there is a certain, important distinction between the following two passages (re: Jesus), note:

--"By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ having come [perfect participle] in [the] flesh is of God" - 1 John 4:2

[and]

--"For many deceivers have entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming [present participle] in flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist." - 2 John 1:7


See the distinction? ;)
 
JamOn said:
Yes think about what your saying father?
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Not trying to be sarcastic here but even if the trans is wrong, still doesn’t point to heaven and earth has come rather it be of spiritual or physical that fact remains only the father knows that rather it has or has not.
 
dcontroversal said:
Words mean everything...he said CHRIST IS A SPIRIT......clear enough.....and so far only cults peddle that rigmarole......
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Hmm I’m a little confused, is Jesus in heaven in the flesh or spiritually, I’m not quite getting what you mean sry. I haven’t heard of the disputes on that topic.
 
JamOn said:
Matt 24
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
sounds very odd to say words are about to never pass away.
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Heaven and earth symbolized old covenant Israel and the Mosaic Law. Please look at Isa 51:15-16 and Isaiah 65.

Isaiah 65:1-16 contrast two types of people. Unfaithful Israel as a nation and the remnant. The remnant were God's servants like the prophets and others who obeyed and followed God. In verse 17 it introduces the new heavens and earth. What does it say? The people are a joy and Jerusalem is a rejoicing. Not a physical creation. A people. The church. The same Jerusalem of Gal 4:26 and the one that was coming down out of heaven in 70 AD. That's why God says He will slay them (unbelieving Israel) and call His servants by another name. He was slaying the unbelieving Jews as Matt 22:7 and Luke 19:27 say and the kingdom age was beginning.

That's why the last verse of Isaiah, Isaiah 66:24 says, "
And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Those are the bodies of the 1 million unbelieving Jews who died in Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Matt 24:35 is a figure of speech contrasting the passing away of the old covenant law and the new covenant never passing away. If you don't understand the figures of speech then it is easy to make mistakes and make the heaven and earth literal. All languages have figures of speech and prophecy is filled with them. That is a big reason why many men do not understand eschatology.
 
delirious said:
Heaven and earth symbolized old covenant Israel and the Mosaic Law. Please look at Isa 51:15-16 and Isaiah 65.

Isaiah 65:1-16 contrast two types of people. Unfaithful Israel as a nation and the remnant. The remnant were God's servants like the prophets and others who obeyed and followed God. In verse 17 it introduces the new heavens and earth. What does it say? The people are a joy and Jerusalem is a rejoicing. Not a physical creation. A people. The church. The same Jerusalem of Gal 4:26 and the one that was coming down out of heaven in 70 AD. That's why God says He will slay them (unbelieving Israel) and call His servants by another name. He was slaying the unbelieving Jews as Matt 22:7 and Luke 19:27 say and the kingdom age was beginning.

That's why the last verse of Isaiah, Isaiah 66:24 says, "
And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Those are the bodies of the 1 million unbelieving Jews who died in Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Matt 24:35 is a figure of speech contrasting the passing away of the old covenant law and the new covenant never passing away. If you don't understand the figures of speech then it is easy to make mistakes and make the heaven and earth literal. All languages have figures of speech and prophecy is filled with them. That is a big reason why many men do not understand eschatology.
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Like I said even if it’s not literal your saying you know, sorry but that’s a red flag to me.
 
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dcontroversal said:
You obviously do not study much or reject truth man....
Jesus was in a resurrected BODY WHEN HE TOLD THOMAS TO TOUCH HIM, WHEN HE ATE FISH and WALKED WITH THE DISCIPLES....
Man you have a lot to learn, unlearn and grasp......!!
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Thank you for more insults. I appreciate it. But to answer your question:

Jesus said specifically that His resurrection was a sign. Matt 12:39-40, "But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

If God had not raised Jesus' physical body from the dead no human, including the apostles, would have believed. They didn't believe it when the women came running from the tomb. They thought everything was over. Jesus had to be raised physically AS A SIGN and those verses show that.

Jesus told Thomas to put His hand in His side so that Thomas would know that the crucifixion and resurrection had really happened. It is not the nature of the resurrection which 1 Cor 15:42-50 and many other verses make clear. God also makes this clear in Gen 3:19.
 
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JamOn said:
Hmm I’m a little confused, is Jesus in heaven in the flesh or spiritually, I’m not quite getting what you mean sry. I haven’t heard of the disputes on that topic.
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A few false cults like to deny the flesh aspect of Christ and they use similiar terms.....Jesus was resurrected in a glorified BODY that is celestial, heavenly with both FORM (Glorified Flesh) and SPIRITUAL AT the same time.....He could pass through closed doors and yet be touched and handled at the same time....to use the designation "A" spirit is to devalue CHRIST and his glorified body and PART OF THE GOD HEAD....
 
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delirious said:
Thank you for more insults. I appreciate it. But to answer your question:

Jesus said specifically that His resurrection was a sign. Matt 12:39-40, "But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

If God had not raised Jesus' physical body from the dead no human, including the apostles, would have believed. They didn't believe it when the women came running from the tomb. They thought everything was over. Jesus had to be raised physically AS A SIGN and those verses show that.

Jesus told Thomas to put His hand in His side so that Thomas would know that the crucifixion and resurrection had really happened. It is not the nature of the resurrection which 1 Cor 15:42-50 and many other verses make clear. God also makes this clear in Gen 3:19.
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Now you are conflating two different issues to dodge the truth........What religion to you affiliate with?
 
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