What is Hell ? A small study help

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ToastAndTea

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
#81
Jul 31, 2018
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#81
post: 3959995 said:
First off, I do not have all the answers, and the more I learn the more I realize I don't know. I'm here really to glean something useful, chew the meat spit out the bones as they say.

Parables. He always taught in parables. I think they had/have more than 1 meaning. What, if any, associations do you find for the name Lazarus in the parable? I've read it's "God is my help" in Greek. Also, it's the same name of the servant of Abraham, of whom he was prepared to call his heir, (before his sons were born of course)

BTW, in your OP about torment being descriptive in regard to testing metal I have not heard, will have to research that further thanks.
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I just wanted to address something you said because I think its important in the way you interpret scripture. Jesus did not "only" talk in parables. He used parables when talking to the crowd as they did not yet understand the spiritual truth he was trying to convey. Jesus used plain and simple language when talking to his disciples. This is true of the Luke 16 account. Therefore - Luke 16 - not a parable. There are other reasons its not a parable but i won't address those here. So if its not a parable what is it? It's an explanation of a real world event. It seems that Jesus being God did in fact have insight into these events. Names and facts are used. It is not a fictional event. And if it is not fictional event it speaks of the reality of a conscious hell. Also, a parable does in fact have a specific meaning so I'd be wary of applying all sorts of metaphorical interpretations to it. Yours in Christ.
 
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garee

Banned
#82
Mar 28, 2016
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#82
dcontroversal said:
Because we are to CONTEND for the faith <--system of teaching found in the word of God and this subject is found IN THE WORD OF GOD ;)
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What does the Bible say in respect to those who are not given a "new spirit " Will they rise of the last day or is a spirit needed to perform that function?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Limbo?
 
ToastAndTea

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
#84
Jul 31, 2018
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#84
garee said:
Not to go above that which is written ..What would you say?
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I would say watch the video (YouTube - 23 minutes in hell by Bill Wiese) and form an opinion. Once you've done that, come back to the forum and write about it. Then we'll talk about it. Til then
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#85
Dec 12, 2013
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#85
garee said:
What does the Bible say in respect to those who are not given a "new spirit " Will they rise of the last day or is a spirit needed to perform that function?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Limbo?
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Read Revelation 20....it is clear enough for those with an ounce of honest scriptural integrity!!
 
G

garee

Banned
#86
Mar 28, 2016
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#86
dcontroversal said:
Read Revelation 20....it is clear enough for those with an ounce of honest scriptural integrity!!
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OUCH Go easy on this older brother LOL

I have a few grams to offer. Working up to the ounces... one gram at a time.

So then you are saying Revelation 20 refutes the fact that you need a spirit to rise on the last day. ?

The "signified" understanding according to the introduction of the book of the inspired word of God forms my understanding of Revelation 20 as to the hidden spiritual meaning. it is hid in that parable.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:

How many metaphor do you count below?

I can start.

Can't literally see and an angel it signifies God sent message from the mouth of God forming a vision in John fleshly mind. .

The key signifies the gospel. It as the will of God loosens and binds the chain of the gates of hells bottomless pit (never ending judgement ).The thousands years signifies a unknown. God does not give exact time of the last day. He will come as a thief in the night when no one knows when. Christians I believe walk by faith, the unseen eternal , not looking to the things seen the temporal .

What do you think the signified language represents in that parable.....what is your version of the understanding ?

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
ToastAndTea

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
#88
Jul 31, 2018
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#88
UnderGrace said:
First we would have to believe it is credible, I have my doubts.
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Well, that's your decision. Of course, you could choose to reject it. But what if, on the off chance, it were true? Then what?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#89
#89
ToastAndTea said:
Well, that's your decision. Of course, you could choose to reject it. But what if, on the off chance, it were true? Then what?
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I do not accept his experience as verifiable, however, that is different issue from what scripture teaches.

We do not need people's subjective experiences to validate scripture.... in my view that is a dangerous path.
 
ToastAndTea

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
#90
Jul 31, 2018
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#90
UnderGrace said:
I do not accept his experience as verifiable, however, that is different issue from what scripture teaches.

We do not need people's subjective experiences to validate scripture.... in my view that is a dangerous path.
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Well if you compared his experience to what scripture teaches there are some similarities, so there's a grain of truth in what he's saying.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#91
#91
ToastAndTea said:
Well if you compared his experience to what scripture teaches there are some similarities, so there's a grain of truth in what he's saying.
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Hmm...well scripture precedes him so his experience is expressed according to what he has read. Now we have book sales and talking tours to go with it....this is my skeptical side speaking, it comes in handy on occasion.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#92
#92
ToastAndTea said:
Well if you compared his experience to what scripture teaches there are some similarities, so there's a grain of truth in what he's saying.
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The most convincing lies contain a "grain" of truth. Bill Wiese is a best selling author, an interesting guy. He claims that when he was 17, surfing in the ocean, a shark attacked one of the other surfers...tore the guy's leg off...blood all in the water...the shark bite Bill's surf board in two! Grabbed him by the leg and pulled him under! But low and behold the shark let him go. Wow. But the most impressive part, that shark didn't leave a mark on him.
 
ToastAndTea

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
#93
Jul 31, 2018
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#93
UnderGrace said:
Hmm...well scripture precedes him so his experience is expressed according to what he has read. Now we have book sales and talking tours to go with it....this is my skeptical side speaking, it comes in handy on occasion.
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Like I said, believe him or not, that's his experience. I find it pretty compelling but.. no-one is forcing you to believe what he's saying. I think scripture does back that up.

I'll leave you with this thought: he could be wrong or he might be right. I guess we will find out when we die. And that's the most anyone can say.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#95
Jul 18, 2017
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#95
garee said:
What does the Bible say in respect to those who are not given a "new spirit " Will they rise of the last day or is a spirit needed to perform that function?
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It is the human body which returns to the dust (not dust and ashes). But the souls and spirits of the saints are in Heaven with Christ and the souls and spirits of the unsaved are in Hades. The "last day" is a period of time stretching over more than 1,000 years. And the unsaved dead will be raised to stand before the Great White Throne towards the end of "the last day".
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#96
Dec 12, 2013
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#96
ToastAndTea said:
Well if you compared his experience to what scripture teaches there are some similarities, so there's a grain of truth in what he's saying.
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UnderGrace said:
Hmm...well scripture precedes him so his experience is expressed according to what he has read. Now we have book sales and talking tours to go with it....this is my skeptical side speaking, it comes in handy on occasion.
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Concerning experience.....Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy....the word trumps any and all experience and we should always stand on the truth over experiences.....
 
G

garee

Banned
#97
Mar 28, 2016
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#97
ToastAndTea said:
I would say watch the video (YouTube - 23 minutes in hell by Bill Wiese) and form an opinion. Once you've done that, come back to the forum and write about it. Then we'll talk about it. Til then
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WWJD? What would Jesus do if the father of lies would bring one of those what are called. . "out of the body experiences" which in reality is the devil bringing in illusion as deception not seen by faith

We are made aware of the wile of the evil one those who say seek a out of the body experience(Lies coming in) or a I had a direct dream or a vision .or in his case like the Catholic visiting imaginary places Like purgatory of limbo. Its all the same kind of deception the goal is to make the faith that comes from hearing God without effect. Business as usual

Jesus demonstrated the law of faith as it is written by which we can know him. Mathew 4 and Colossians 2 , we are to not go above that which is written (sols scriptura) the one reforming authority in any generation

What I call the experience or wonderment maker Satan, in Mathew 4 when the Son of man was weakened in his fleshly mind having no food 40 days. The illusionists as the god of this world Satan brought Jesus one of those what some call "out of the body all expense paid promotions if only Jesus would bow down to the illusion of things "not seen by the faith' the faith of Christ . Satan, the Father of lies upped the ante three times. To make sure all three times the Our Father in heaven puts his words in the mouth of the Son of man, Jesus .And Jesus said as it is written . Not according to the things not seen. But as it is written alone three times . he refused to worship that angel . Will you following the word of Jesus ? (as it is written) our will you as he the devil promote "will worship" as in . . . . I will create an illusion and call it a out of the body experience.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.Mathew 4:10-11

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and "worshipping of angels", intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.18-23

Did Jesus pass the test?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#98
Jun 30, 2015
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#98
garee said:
WWJD? What would Jesus do if the father of lies would bring one of those what are called. . "out of the body experiences" which in reality is the devil bringing in illusion as deception not seen by faith
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Paul had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in 2 Corinthians. John had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in Revelation.

Neither was a deceptive illusion brought by the evil one.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#99
Jul 3, 2015
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#99
Dino246 said:
Paul had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in 2 Corinthians. John had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in Revelation.

Neither was a deceptive illusion brought by the evil one.
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Rhetorical question/musings, not necessarily aimed at you, Dino, but to the board in general, just jumping off your post :)

This is not addressing the content of some video of a guy who claimed to go to hell, but the fact that God promises to reveal Himself to those who diligently and sincerely seek Him. If one has not experienced God working in their life, how could they possibly know they are saved? People speaking against personal experiences as having no value in the greater scheme of Christianity is anti-Biblical... though I would not say an experience of going to hell is experiencing God at all. God reveals Himself through the Person and love of Jesus Christ. We also know from Scripture that those who do not know Him are not truly seeking Him, for they are in rebellion against Him. We are all born enemies of God. However, there are those who do seek truth, both diligently and sincerely. Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth :love:
 
G

garee

Banned
#100
Mar 28, 2016
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#100
Dino246 said:
Paul had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in 2 Corinthians. John had an "out of body experience" which he wrote about in Revelation.

Neither was a deceptive illusion brought by the evil one.
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Gotta love those out of the body experiences . Where to?

Paul had in the body experience picture in his fleshly mind . He never left earth... No beam me up Scotty.

It was a vision of heavenly things not seen . Paul had on the 20/20 prescription . looking to the things not seen.. by the things seen the temporal . Called mixing faith (the unseen eternal) in Hebrews 4

That's called prophecy the tongue of God.

Yes they are of God recorded in scripture as it is writtien .Not after the illusion of someone's puffed up fleshly mind. One source of Christian faith as it is written . which source will you serve as the teaching master? Faith that comes as it is written, or mysticism?

Can you tell me about the visions of so called out of the body that are not part of scripture? How much power should we give them them .00000000000000000000000000000005 % ? Or 0%
 
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