Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Guojing]

I think that whether it's for us or not is a matter of opinion.

If the objection is that it was only spoken to those who were gathered with Jesus at Passover, one could also note that the commandant to go into all the world was only spoken directly to the 11.

Nowadays how one interpret the audience depends on the church you attend preach mostly on.

Since many mainstream church preach on the Great Commission for all their members, it has been ingrained to them that the GC is also for them.

But hardly any church preach about "go buy a sword"...

 

[PS]

Where does it say in Scripture that Jesus is a pacifist? Where does it say that Jesus was unhappy at Peter's actions? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek in a particular context. Do you understand that context?

Luk 22:47 While Jesus was still speaking, a crowd arrived. The man called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them, and he came close to Jesus to kiss him.
Luk 22:48 But Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
Luk 22:49 When those who were around Jesus saw what was about to take place, they asked, "Lord, should we attack with our swords?"
Luk 22:50 Then one of them struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear.
Luk 22:51 But Jesus said, "No more of this!" So he touched the wounded man's ear and healed him.
Luk 22:52 Then Jesus told the high priests, the Temple police, and the elders, who had come for him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a bandit?
Luk 22:53 While I was with you day after day in the Temple, you didn't lay a hand on me. But this is your hour, when darkness reigns!"


The Apostle Paul quoting Jesus:
Now I myself, Paul, plead with you with the gentleness and kindness of the Messiah (2Co 10:1a)

Jesus on Retaliation
Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.
Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go two with him.
Mat 5:42 Give to the person who asks you for something, and do not turn away from the person who wants to borrow something from you."

Jesus on Love Your Enemies
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor' and hate your enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you will become children of your Father in heaven, because he makes his sun rise on both evil and good people, and he lets rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mat 5:46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don't they?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your relatives, that's no great thing you're doing, is it? Even the gentiles do the same, don't they?
Mat 5:48 So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

 

[PS]

So my statement saying it was for you ....for education, is correct?

You would have been exactly right if you had said it is for everyone to know.

 

[Dino246]

Luk 22:47 While Jesus was still speaking, a crowd arrived. The man called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them, and he came close to Jesus to kiss him.
Luk 22:48 But Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
Luk 22:49 When those who were around Jesus saw what was about to take place, they asked, "Lord, should we attack with our swords?"
Luk 22:50 Then one of them struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear.
Luk 22:51 But Jesus said, "No more of this!" So he touched the wounded man's ear and healed him.
Luk 22:52 Then Jesus told the high priests, the Temple police, and the elders, who had come for him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a bandit?
Luk 22:53 While I was with you day after day in the Temple, you didn't lay a hand on me. But this is your hour, when darkness reigns!"


The Apostle Paul quoting Jesus:
Now I myself, Paul, plead with you with the gentleness and kindness of the Messiah (2Co 10:1a)

Jesus on Retaliation
Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.
Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go two with him.
Mat 5:42 Give to the person who asks you for something, and do not turn away from the person who wants to borrow something from you."

Jesus on Love Your Enemies
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You must love your neighbor' and hate your enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you will become children of your Father in heaven, because he makes his sun rise on both evil and good people, and he lets rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mat 5:46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don't they?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your relatives, that's no great thing you're doing, is it? Even the gentiles do the same, don't they?
Mat 5:48 So be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

I don't see "pacifist" or anything like it in these verses.

Gentleness and kindness are not synonyms for pacifism.

Pacifism: the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.

Jesus: (Revelation 19)

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Perhaps 'pacifist' was the wrong word?

 

[PS]

I don't see "pacifist" or anything like it in these verses.

Gentleness and kindness are not synonyms for pacifism.

Pacifism: the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.

Jesus: (Revelation 19)

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Perhaps 'pacifist' was the wrong word?

In this dispensation, pacifism exactly describes how our relationship should be towards others.

 

[Dan_473]

He was speaking to YOU. It was either for education, example, background, etc. but it is all speaking to you. If not you, then who?

Jesus said to do many things which I don't physically do, for example wait in Jerusalem. Interesting,the law also says to go to Jerusalem three times a year.

But I follow the general theme Jesus words, oh yes! Walk in the spirit!

 

[DeighAnn]

Where does it say in Scripture that Jesus is a pacifist? Where does it say that Jesus was unhappy at Peter's actions? Jesus told us to turn the other cheek in a particular context. Do you understand that context?

I think it is about

Jesus said to do many things which I don't physically do, for example wait in Jerusalem. Interesting,the law also says to go to Jerusalem three times a year.

But I follow the general theme Jesus words, oh yes! Walk in the spirit!

So if we do "spiritually" what was required "physically" is that how the spirit of it is followed now? Do we still have to recompense, what is it, something like 5 times the value of stuff stolen from us to be forgiven? Or is that just to ask? I sure hope so. I can't see there being a "spiritual" way out of that one. And immediately being found guilty of murder or rape, executed in public. That has to be physical too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People who think we are still bound by the law can not understand the purpose of the law in the first place. Every aspect of the law pointed to two things. If these people would understand this. They would realise their mistake.

 

[DeighAnn]

I don't think Jesus was so passive

John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
John 2:15 AND WHEN HE HAD MADE A SCOURGE OF SMALL CORDS, HE DROVE THEM ALL OUT OF THE TEMPLE, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
John 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Righteousness Indignation. I think that because all that is being taught in the churches today is the sweet and syrup side of the Book no one is being prepared for the fight coming our way. Rebuke, doesn't always come with a hug, and sometimes love comes from "this is going to hurt me more than you" kick in the pants.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think Jesus was so passive

John 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
John 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
John 2:15 AND WHEN HE HAD MADE A SCOURGE OF SMALL CORDS, HE DROVE THEM ALL OUT OF THE TEMPLE, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
John 2:17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Righteousness Indignation. I think that because all that is being taught in the churches today is the sweet and syrup side of the Book no one is being prepared for the fight coming our way. Rebuke, doesn't always come with a hug, and sometimes love comes from "this is going to hurt me more than you" kick in the pants.

Remember also. Jesus rebuked the religious leaders, who no one dared come against,

Gods scorn against those who are trying to impose religion on people and not relationship through discipleship will be strang, I would not want to be part of that group. And sadly, Much of the church over the last centuries has been teaching religion and not relationship. Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord.

 

[Dino246]

In this dispensation, pacifism exactly describes how our relationship should be towards others.

I don't hold to dispensationalism; I don't believe it is biblically sound. I also don't agree with your concept of pacifism.

Simple (though blunt) question: Assuming you have a daughter, would you stand by "peacefully" and watch her get beaten or raped? I doubt it. A true pacifist would. We as Christians are called to turn the other cheek when insulted, not necessarily when attacked. We can choose to refrain from defending ourselves and our loved ones, and are certainly called to refrain from using violence when presenting the gospel, but I don't see where Scripture teaches pacifism.

 

[PS]

I don't hold to dispensationalism; I don't believe it is biblically sound. I also don't agree with your concept of pacifism.

Simple (though blunt) question: Assuming you have a daughter, would you stand by "peacefully" and watch her get beaten or raped? I doubt it. A true pacifist would. We as Christians are called to turn the other cheek when insulted, not necessarily when attacked. We can choose to refrain from defending ourselves and our loved ones, and are certainly called to refrain from using violence when presenting the gospel, but I don't see where Scripture teaches pacifism.

Change dispensation to New Testament times.
We can and should come to the aid of those who are in distress.
Did Jesus ever preach war, other than spiritual warfare?

 

[Dino246]

Change dispensation to New Testament times.

Fair enough.

We can and should come to the aid of those who are in distress.[/QUOTE]
You just disagreed with pacifism. Do you see it?

Did Jesus ever preach war, other than spiritual warfare?[/QUOTE]
That's a change of subject. War is not the only option aside from pacifism. Spiritual warfare itself is inconsistent with pacifism.

You introduced the word "pacifist"; I asked if that was perhaps the wrong word. You doubled down. You can still concede.

 

[PS]

Fair enough.

We can and should come to the aid of those who are in distress.

You just disagreed with pacifism. Do you see it?

Did Jesus ever preach war, other than spiritual warfare?[/QUOTE]
That's a change of subject. War is not the only option aside from pacifism. Spiritual warfare itself is inconsistent with pacifism.

You introduced the word "pacifist"; I asked if that was perhaps the wrong word. You doubled down. You can still concede.[/QUOTE]

Give me the definition for pacifist. (Something wrong with the quotes.)

 

[Dino246]

Give me the definition for pacifist.

I did already, but here it is again. I forgot to give the citation previously, but have provided it here.

Pacifism: the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means. (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Dictionary).

 

[PS]

I did already, but here it is again. I forgot to give the citation previously, but have provided it here.

Pacifism: the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means. (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Dictionary).

Jesus.

pacifist
adjective
Inclined or disposed to peace; not quarrelsome or unruly:

Your definition also fits, "all disputes should be settled by peaceful means."

 

[Dino246]

Jesus.

??

pacifist
adjective
Inclined or disposed to peace; not quarrelsome or unruly:

Source? I'd call that a definition for "peaceful", not "pacifist".

Do you find the definition that I gave objectionable or inadequate in some way?

 

[PS]

??


Source? I'd call that a definition for "peaceful", not "pacifist".

Do you find the definition that I gave objectionable or inadequate in some way?

Both definitions apply to Jesus

Inclined or disposed to peace; not quarrelsome or unruly:

Your definition also fits, "all disputes should be settled by peaceful means."

 

[Dino246]

Both definitions apply to Jesus

Inclined or disposed to peace; not quarrelsome or unruly:

Your definition also fits, "all disputes should be settled by peaceful means."

You're dodging.

What is the source of your definition?

The definition that I provided was not "all disputes should be settled by peaceful means". It was "the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means." By truncating it, you've changed the meaning. The part that you excised is the part that makes your position untenable.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Jesus referred to the two greatest commandments; love God with all your heart your soul your mind love your neighbor as yourself as the law of love. But he didn’t say these replaced “All the Law”, quite the opposite, He referred to these two laws as the proper motivation for keeping all the Laws in the OT!

There's two ways to keep the commandments written in the Old Testament.

The first one would be out of the fear of the curses that come to those who don't keep them.

The second one is when you keep the commandments out of love for your God and out of love for your neighbor, not out of a fear of the curses that come with them that's the law of love.

Paul refers to a “godly sorrow” and a “worldly sorrow”, the godly sorrow he refers to leads to repentance which leads to salvation the worldly sorrow leads to death so the godly sorrow would be the one where in your heart you have a desire to honor God and honor your neighbor because you love them, the worldly sorrow thinks to itself; “I better do what God says and I better do what is good for my neighbor or will just come back on me. Worldly sorrow doesn’t care about God or your neighbor, you just care about what happens to you.

Jesus made a point that the law says “Thou shalt not commit adultery”, but that if you kept yourself from physically going after your neighbors wife but still wanted to, then you broke the law “in your heart”. Sure you didn’t break the “Letter of the Law” by doing the act, but you did break “the Spirit of the Law” by wanting to! If you loved your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself, your heart would be repulsed by the thought of lusting after your neighbors wife. The Spirit of the Law doesn’t want to break the Law for the sake of God and neighbor, the “letter” of the Law won’t break the law out of love for ones self. Can you see the difference?

Paul in 1 Cor 13 refers to all the “good” things a person can do right “mechanically”, but if the acts are missing the love of neighbor and God, then they are simply empty meaningless acts of selfishness.

Once a heart is converted from “self love” to a “Love for God and a love for neighbor as ones self”, that heart will search the Law out to see what pleases God, and then do those thing. The heart that is not yet converted is angered by those same Laws and looks for ways to negate them, or end run them.