Is God All-knowing?

posthuman · Jun 30, 2019

look, you're not going to be here much longer. you are obviously on your way to being banned.

don't think of it as any kind of badge of honor.

before you go, remember this:

you call Jesus good. Jesus says no one but God is good. Jesus calls Himself 'the Shepherd, the Good one'
Jesus is either good, in which case He is God manifest in the flesh, or He is a liar, and evil.

you will answer for this on the last day when God judges all men.
answer it in your heart. be honest, because God sees your heart, all of it. there is only one Salvation, and it is the person, Jesus the Christ.

we're through, for now. until that day.

Dino246 · Jun 30, 2019

Fahad said:

Clean up your language or you will be banned from this site.

Fahad · Jun 30, 2019

Dino246 said:

posthuman said:

and Look, We call Jesus the best, but we also call Moses good same way. what opinion you have about Moses now?

7seasrekeyed · Jun 30, 2019

Fahad said:

I get this from your own news sources as well as western sources

so sorry man, but your religion is very violent and does not care for women

furthermore, lying is encouraged so I guess you must be doing that now

Islam's doctrines of deception
by Raymond Ibrahim
Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst
October 2008

To better understand Islam, one must appreciate the thoroughly legalistic nature of the religion. According to sharia (Islamic law) every conceivable human act is categorised as being either forbidden, discouraged, permissible, recommended, or obligatory.
"Common sense" or "universal opinion" has little to do with Islam's notions of right and wrong. Only what Allah (through the Quran) and his prophet Muhammad (through the Hadith) have to say about any given issue matters; and how Islam's greatest theologians and jurists – collectively known as the ulema, literally, "they who know" – have articulated it.

According to sharia, in certain situations, deception – also known as 'taqiyya', based on Quranic terminology, – is not only permitted but sometimes obligatory. For instance, contrary to early Christian history, Muslims who must choose between either recanting Islam or being put to death are not only permitted to lie by pretending to have apostatised, but many jurists have decreed that, according to Quran 4:29, Muslims are obligated to lie in such instances.

source

Articulation of taqiyya
According to the authoritative Arabic text, Al-Taqiyya Fi Al-Islam: "Taqiyya [deception] is of fundamental importance in Islam. Practically every Islamic sect agrees to it and practices it. We can go so far as to say that the practice of taqiyya is mainstream in Islam, and that those few sects not practicing it diverge from the mainstream...Taqiyya is very prevalent in Islamic politics, especially in the modern era."

The primary Quranic verse sanctioning deception with respect to non-Muslims states: "Let believers not take for friends and allies infidels instead of believers. Whoever does this shall have no relationship left with Allah – unless you but guard yourselves against them, taking precautions." (Quran 3:28; see also 2:173; 2:185; 4:29; 22:78; 40:28.)

Al-Tabari's (838-923 AD) Tafsir, or Quranic exegeses, is essentially a standard reference in the entire Muslim world. Regarding 3:28, he wrote: "If you [Muslims] are under their [infidels'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them, with your tongue, while harbouring inner animosity for them... Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels in place of believers – except when infidels are above them [in authority]. In such a scenario, let them act friendly towards them."

so lying is ok

raping women is ok

killing people because they refuse your religion is ok

burning people alive is ok

sounds like somebody either does not know what his friends believe or is lying about it since it is ok to lie and encouraged to lie

after all, Christians are infidels...according to muslims

7seasrekeyed · Jun 30, 2019

Dino246 said:

let him run on

I'm already waving

Noose · Jun 30, 2019

Fahad said:

That's my point, if it was revealed as chapters and verses (human invention and intervention), then your god thought it wise to use/copy one of the greatest human invention.

7seasrekeyed · Jun 30, 2019

well all right then!

and thank you

Dino246 · Jun 30, 2019

He's gone.

May the Lord reveal Himself to Fahad.

7seasrekeyed · Jun 30, 2019

in answer to the question 'Is God all knowing?'

yes!

yes yes and yes! He is all knowing!

Psalm 139

O Lord, you have searched me and known me!
2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
3 You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.
5 You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; I cannot attain it.
7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
9 If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
12 even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.
13 For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 If I would count them, they are more than the sand.
I awake, and I am still with you.

7seasrekeyed · Jun 30, 2019

dcontroversal · Jun 30, 2019

Fahad said:

I never said anything about the Holy Spirit.......and the key to Jesus NOT KNOWING was the phrase ->>>not even the Son of MAN.........for man to be redeemable by God there had to be atleast one man that met God's standards.....and that MAN was Jesus....WHO WAS FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD reconciling MAN UNTO HIMSELF......God experiencing humanity so he can MEDIATE for man with a full understanding of what MAN GOES THROUGH including DEATH!

Mii · Jul 1, 2019

Wow...only read 50% of this thread but

This is the second time someone has come in with a sword drawn and literally seems like they just want to hack right and left. I'm totally for someone having their "guard up" and being suspicious or skeptical about Christianity but why be here if you aren't at least searching?

It did bring up an interesting thought for me tonight not related to any of the above

I've lately been thinking about holding all my thoughts in my hand/memories/sins/dreams etc...it practically cannot be done ofc. There are times when I really need to remember something that it comes to mind or a prayer idea for a person pops up and memory augments/affirms it but it isn't constantly on my mind at all...far from it, surprises me that dusty 10 year old memories were even still accessible; we have sincere limitations as human beings. Namely cerebral space limitations. I'm sure that Yeshua had this same handicap. The workaround is the Holy Spirit and what the Lord desires you to know and would further his purpose, but outside of that you have to operate in the limits of humanity. By default it makes sense to be limited due to the sheer amount of information that would be 100% useless to practically anyone outside being interesting (like certain bible characters backstories). Yeshua focused on the critical path and ONLY what was necessary.

Idk, half baked but getting a little clearer as I think about it. Figured I'd drop it in this rather strange thread lol.

Sipsey · Jul 1, 2019

Just wondering out loud here. I certainly qualify as a new member and I may be in left field with this suggestion. If more Muslim apologists come onto this site, might a more focused response be in order? What I mean, is it possible to limit the conversation in some way to a few members well versed in dealing with this sort of thing? With multiple members replies, it seems the last two threads have only served to cause a degree of confusion. It might not be possible, just wondering.

NotmebutHim · Jul 1, 2019

Dino246 said:

And this is where we almost always end up.

New person comes in, tries to introduce anti-Christian doctrine and then starts getting vulgar/hurling insults when we object.

Dino246 · Jul 1, 2019

Sipsey said:

A similar thought occurred to me.

We're built differently, and we hone in on different specific issues. I don't see anything wrong with several people addressing the new member, but perhaps it should be made clear that we're not trying to badger and harass the newcomer. I imagine it would be frustrating and even maddening to feel obligated to several people who are picking holes in your position. Of course, this particular newcomer did come in swinging a sword, and was rightly sent packing. He was presented with the gospel before he was sent on his way. That's the critical point.

FollowHisSteps · Jul 1, 2019

The trinity is hard for muslims to grasp.

One concept that was helpful to me is the idea of eternal being. Whatever is eternal, is part of God.
Everything that is not part of God is created.

Each thing that is part of God is not everything in God, like your foot is part of you, but it is not
the whole you.

So Jesus is the word of God, but not everything in the Father, and equally the Holy Spirit, Gods presence
in the universe is not everything in the Father.

So Jesus being limited to them, denies God who is unlimited. But for Jesus to be distinct from the Father,
He has to be different, else He is the Father is all aspects where ever He is. But for this to happen He could
never come to earth or be human, because the world would be destroyed and no one could talk with Him.

posthuman · Jul 1, 2019

Sipsey said:

it's that way not only with Muslims but with anyone who is questioning, skeptical, or has a different religious background or an obscure interpretation of some passages and opens up a thread or comments on one, boldly stating such views.
they get swarmed with dozens of replies, and i imagine it's very difficult to keep up, for them, and for someone who just happens across the thread, it's a garbled mish-mash of a number of people trying to start up debates on certain points, and a number of people just accusing and condemning, and generally one person doing his or her best to juggle 10 conversations, eventually getting frustrated, overstepping some line of decorum, and getting booted without anything being resolved.

it happened with a buddhist, too, a few months ago, too, who was actually really graceful, under the circumstances. it happens especially with atheists, and it happens with Christians who have what most of us call heretical views, too, tho they usually last a bit longer than others.

i hate to see people get booted, because i think it's more valuable for their sakes if they can stay long enough to really get to know some people and get to spend a lot of time thinking and deep-diving into issues - spending a day or two meditating on things that have been said, and forming well-thought-out views about them. but it so often just all goes down in a matter of a half a day, and i don't know how useful that really is to anyone. i'm saddened by it.
so i wouldn't make too good of a mod probably lol -- probably too patient for the general welfare.

i share your concern, tho. i don't know how that could be accomplished because the discussion forum is 100% open, and i do believe it ought to stay that way -- and a big roadblock to what could be a good solution is that, unless you were grandfathered-in because you've been here a long time, ever since the server change, members have to pay $$$ for the ability to private message each other.
i can initiate a PM conversation with anyone, because i've been here several years, and you could reply to me, but you can't just open up a PM with me unless you essentially buy the right to. no brand-new member who doesn't even believe in Christianity, or at least doesn't believe some of the foundational doctrines of it, is going to lay down cash to start such conversations with a limited amount of people, and they're not going to have any idea who here are the people best suited to talk to them, either.
in the past we've had brand-new people pretty much trolling, sending out mass PM's, some of them threatening and some of them filthy and some of them soliciting. so i get why capping PM's is an attractive & useful idea.

but that might be something some of us who still have freedom to PM people could do -- reach out in a smaller group conversation to such people. i wonder if that would ease some of the tension that builds up in the threads? and maybe these people would stay in the forums longer? and maybe there would be a better chance of their time here being profitable to their souls, and less antagonistic.

the other thing is that we all need to learn gentleness & respect, without compromising integrity. smacking someone in the side of the head with a Bible is the right thing to do *sometimes* but it's not, IMO, a great 'general strategy'

creative111 · Jul 1, 2019

Fahad said:

Christian greetings,

Good question, hopefully, you ask for the right reasons. Yes and no. God is indeed omniscient aka "all knowing", however, he chooses to limit his foresight aspect in regard to some future events. Some ignorant Christians often shun this Idea as they believe it limits God . Their belief is that God has no limits, however, it is clearly rooted in scripture that God limits himself (I'll show proof of below). These same Christians also believe that God is omnipotent (ALL POWERFUL), but this is also not true, there are some things God cannot do. God cannot lie, God cannot die, he can not do evil as it's against his character and so on. Funnily enough, if God were omnipotent then he would have the power to limit his knowledge in some way thus contradicting those who believe that God cannot limit himself and must always know everything that is going to happen. But I digress.

The account of God's test onto Abraham is one place in the bible that demonstrates God limiting himself to knowing future events. I'm sure you're familiar with the account. I'll post the part of the chapter for context sake. Genesis 22:1-12.

1Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
2Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
3Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
6Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
8Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
9When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
12“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

Notice here it is God testing Abraham's faithfulness as to whether he will sacrifice his son Issac, this is God's test, and he uses an Angel as an agent to oversee his test clearly shown in verse 10 "But the angel of the Lord". Now assuming as some would that God is all knowing it is simple to question why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son if he is indeed "all knowing", surely he knew the character of Abraham and that he would. But as shown in verse 12 he didn't know this, God says "Now I know you fear God", this clearly expressing that previously God did not the outcome but since Abraham demonstrated the desired faith that he now does.

To add the context also expresses the same idea. The contextual narrative of this verse being Gods test on Abraham. Tests are used to asses an unknowm outcome, if the outcome of a test was known before a test is carried out then why take a test. Clearly God wanted to know the result of the test and had no pre-knowledge thus limiting himself.

Some would argue that it was the Angel that didn't know, however notice what the Angel says in the latter part of verse 12 "Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son" . These are clearly Gods words and not the Angels, to suggest otherwise would be to foolishly to suggest that Abraham was making the sacrifice to not just God but also to this unkown Angel.

Dino246 · Jul 1, 2019

creative111 said:

Christian greetings,

Good question, hopefully, you ask for the right reasons. Yes and no. God is indeed omniscient aka "all knowing", however, he chooses to limit his foresight aspect in regard to some future events. Some ignorant Christians often shun this Idea as they believe it limits God . Their belief is that God has no limits, however, it is clearly rooted in scripture that God limits himself (I'll show proof of below). These same Christians also believe that God is omnipotent (ALL POWERFUL), but this is also not true, there are some things God cannot do. God cannot lie, God cannot die, he can not do evil as it's against his character and so on. Funnily enough, if God were omnipotent then he would have the power to limit his knowledge in some way thus contradicting those who believe that God cannot limit himself and must always know everything that is going to happen. But I digress.

The account of God's test onto Abraham is one place in the bible that demonstrates God limiting himself to knowing future events. I'm sure you're familiar with the account. I'll post the part of the chapter for context sake. Genesis 22:1-12.

1Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
2Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
3Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
6Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
“Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
“The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
8Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
9When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
12“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

Notice here it is God testing Abraham's faithfulness as to whether he will sacrifice his son Issac, this is God's test, and he uses an Angel as an agent to oversee his test clearly shown in verse 10 "But the angel of the Lord". Now assuming as some would that God is all knowing it is simple to question why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son if he is indeed "all knowing", surely he knew the character of Abraham and that he would. But as shown in verse 12 he didn't know this, God says "Now I know you fear God", this clearly expressing that previously God did not the outcome but since Abraham demonstrated the desired faith that he now does.

To add the context also expresses the same idea. The contextual narrative of this verse being Gods test on Abraham. Tests are used to asses an unknowm outcome, if the outcome of a test was known before a test is carried out then why take a test. Clearly God wanted to know the result of the test and had no pre-knowledge thus limiting himself.

Some would argue that it was the Angel that didn't know, however notice what the Angel says in the latter part of verse 12 "Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son" . These are clearly Gods words and not the Angels, to suggest otherwise would be to foolishly to suggest that Abraham was making the sacrifice to not just God but also to this unkown Angel.

Hi Creative111, and welcome to CC,
It's kind of you to respond graciously to Fahad, but as he has been banned from the site, it is unlikely that he will ever see your response.

creative111 · Jul 1, 2019

Dino246 said:

Hi Dino, I thought so, but wasn't too sure. I knew however despite him being banned the site is still open for all to see. So hopefully irrespective of him being banned I'm sure he'll still be able to see it.

Thanks for letting me know though Dino

Is God All-knowing?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

7seasrekeyed

Guest

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Senior Member

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Senior Member

7seasrekeyed

Guest

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Member