During Tribulation, is it still Faith only for salvation?

[Guojing]

During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?

 

[Ahwatukee]

During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?

Greetings Guojing!

The word of God is very clear on this issue regarding those who will worship the beast, his image and receive his mark. First of all, those who believe in Jesus during the tribulation period will not receive the mark and that because they know what the consequences will be. Regarding them, the scripture says that they will not love their lives so much as to shy away from death keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God. Since at that time only those who receive the mark will be able to electronically buy and sell, then without it a person would not be able be apart of the electronic financial system. Like the bank cards which allow people to electronically credit and debit their bank accounts, without the mark which will replace them, no one will be able to access their money. Below are the consequences for those who receive the mark:

"Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Remember when Jesus said, "If you love your life more than me you are not worthy of me?" To receive the mark would be to align oneself with the beast and therefore reject Christ and that in order to save oneself, which would be loving ones life more than Jesus.

In other words, those here during that time will need to be willing to be persecuted, captured and put to death. And yes, be prepared to starve to death.

The good news is that, those who are in Christ will not have to worry about the mark, as the Lord will have appeared to gather His church prior to God's wrath which will be initiated by the opening of the first seal.

That we are on the cusp of the very last days can be seen by the fact that the system for the mark of the beast is already in place, which is the electronic crediting and debiting system. And we also have the technology for the mark itself, which is already being used. Click on the following link:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

 

[MattforJesus]

During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?

It is not possible for a person that believes in the Gospel of Christ to be saved if they took the mark of the beast so they would not starve.

God has to one day end this sin business on earth, for He cannot have people sinning forever on earth, but He has to wrap it up, and have His people with Him, and put down the world.

So God is giving the world a certain amount of time to have their way, and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast, and when they take the mark of the beast then repentance, and salvation, are no longer available to them, and God can end this sin business on earth.

Which war will break out in heaven, and the devils will be cast to earth, which the earth will become the habitation of devils, and they will go forth and deceive all people who do not love God, which is the strong delusion that God will send all people that love not the truth, but have pleasure in unrighteousness.

The only ones who will take the mark of the beast is those who do not love the truth, all other people will be Christians led of the Spirit, and the Spirit will strengthen them to avoid the beast kingdom, and endure the world persecuting them like the man Christ Jesus could endure it.

If anybody considers taking the mark of the beast at that time then they cannot be truly with God.

And to take that mark means you are siding with the beast, and the ways of the world, so why would a Christian do that.

And that means that they are putting their own physical life ahead of the truth, for Jesus said do not fear what they can do to the body, but can do no more, but fear God, for He has the power to destroy the body, and cast the person in to hell.

How can a true Christian cave in like that to take the mark of the beast to save themselves from starving, when the mark of the beast represents the beast, and his system.

That would be like saying a saint could go to a Satanic church, and attend a service, because they have free hot dogs, and hamburgers that day, and they were low on cash.

So you will side with the devil if you are starving, but avoid the mark of the beast, and live off the land like a Navy Seal, which I know there is no lobster, and t-bone steaks out there, but you can acquire a taste for insects after a while.

The Bible says all who take the mark of the beast is not going to be with Him, and once they take it then they have a nature of a devil, and cannot be saved, and anybody that believes in the Gospel of Christ, and has the Spirit would not take it for the Spirit would strengthen them, and their mindset would be different than if they were not in that situation.

It is a whole new ballgame when you are facing persecution for the Spirit will strengthen you, and you will endure the persecution, and know all will be alright.

Also the beast will be clear on his agenda concerning the prosperity of the world, and to have peace, and the people worship the beast before they take the mark of the beast, which no Christian would worship the beast, and take the mark to avoid starving.

There is no in between concerning the time of the mark of the beast, for they are either with the beast, or with Jesus, and there is no Muslim, or Buddhist, or any other religion at that time, for they believe the beast is their prosperity, and spirituality, and the world is deceived by a devil to follow the beast, and the saints have the Spirit to stay with Jesus.

Deceived by a devil, strong delusion, they would never come to Jesus, and being a saint led of the Spirit they would never take the mark of the beast.

 

[Nehemiah6]

During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?

That's a nice hypothetical question. But I'm sure you know the answer. At that point believing is Jesus would mean becoming a martyr subject to beheading.

 

[dcontroversal]

During the Tribulation, if someone believes Jesus Christ's death burial and resurrection in his heart, but chose to take the mark of the beast, because he does not want to starve to death, would God still considered him saved in the end, because he believed in Jesus?

No....only men that will not receive the love of the truth will take the mark and all that take it will burn in the lake of fire!

 

[Guojing]

Seems everyone is clear that you need to also reject the Mark of the beast, in order to be saved. Does this mean it is Faith + Works for salvation during the Tribulation?

Is rejecting the Mark, or being willing to be martyred for your faith a "work" or part of "having faith"? Those of you who believe that one is always saved by grace thru faith only at all times, how would you reconcile that?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Seems everyone is clear that you need to also reject the Mark of the beast, in order to be saved. Does this mean it is Faith + Works for salvation during the Tribulation?

Not at all. What it means is that there is a price to be paid for being a Christian. Some Christians are already paying that price apart from the Tribulation. Check out Persecution of Christians Today on the Internet.

 

[crossnote]

I was drawn to this thread by it's title...
During Tribulation, is it still Faith only for salvation?
...in which case I would say yes.

 

[Guojing]

Not at all. What it means is that there is a price to be paid for being a Christian. Some Christians are already paying that price apart from the Tribulation. Check out Persecution of Christians Today on the Internet.

What do you think is the difference between "paying a price" for being a Christian, and "having to do works" for being a Christian?

Will salvation be still a gift if you have to pay a price for it?

 

[Guojing]

I was drawn to this thread by it's title...
During Tribulation, is it still Faith only for salvation?
...in which case I would say yes.

So in your opinion, being willing to starve to death and be beheaded for your faith is not a work?

 

[crossnote]

So in your opinion, being willing to starve to death and be beheaded for your faith is not a work?

Correct (it's just not my opinion). Faith is a gift revealed in such ways as faithfulness, adherence to the Truth of God's Word regardless of the cost. ..

Hebrews 11:32-40 NASBS
[32] And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, [33] who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, [34] quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. [35] Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; [36] and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. [37] They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated [38] (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. [39] And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, [40] because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

 

[Guojing]

Correct (it's just not my opinion). Faith is a gift revealed in such ways as faithfulness, adherence to the Truth of God's Word regardless of the cost. ..

Hebrews 11:32-40 NASBS
[32] And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, [33] who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, [34] quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. [35] Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection; [36] and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. [37] They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated [38] (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. [39] And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, [40] because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

I see. So your definition of gift can include a cost too. Will salvation be still a free gift from God if there is a cost for it?

Likewise, if you meet others who regard being willing to starve to death as a work that they have to do, are they wrong and why?

 

[JaumeJ]

In the parable of the talents, are not those talents of gold equated with faith? Were the servants expected to increase their faith after receiving the initiial charge? Cost is a valid usage of the word as presented. If we are to turn from the creted to the Creator, is this not a type of service on our part, though all we are doing is giving up what was never ours in the first place?

Praise God in your sharing of faith, and do not mince nor split the words when the meaning is quite redily understood.

 

[Guojing]

In the parable of the talents, are not those talents of gold equated with faith? Were the servants expected to increase their faith after receiving the initiial charge? Cost is a valid usage of the word as presented. If we are to turn from the creted to the Creator, is this not a type of service on our part, though all we are doing is giving up what was never ours in the first place?

Praise God in your sharing of faith, and do not mince nor split the words when the meaning is quite redily understood.

We are going off topic but I have to say you have an interesting interpretation of that parable. Is it universally accepted that "talents" in that parable refers to faith?

There are others who believe that all Christians receive the same measure of faith after they are saved, which is the faith of Jesus. Thus, you cannot increase that measure. What you can do instead is to renew your mind more and more to the truth that you already have all the faith you need for Christian living.

 

[crossnote]

I see. So your definition of gift can include a cost too. Will salvation be still a free gift from God if there is a cost for it?

Likewise, if you meet others who regard being willing to starve to death as a work that they have to do, are they wrong and why?

My definition of gift is a purchased item (salvation was purchased by the blood of Jesus) given freely to whoever receives it.
So His Blood was the cost...faith freely receives it.
Others who starve to death thinking they will earn favor with God are wrong, because they think they can obtain salvation through their works.

 

[dcontroversal]

Seems everyone is clear that you need to also reject the Mark of the beast, in order to be saved. Does this mean it is Faith + Works for salvation during the Tribulation?

Is rejecting the Mark, or being willing to be martyred for your faith a "work" or part of "having faith"? Those of you who believe that one is always saved by grace thru faith only at all times, how would you reconcile that?

No one said such a thing--->have to reject to be saved.....nice twist of words Gongshow......

How about those SAVED will not take it........

 

[JaumeJ]

The street and the walls of New Jerusalem ae made by the faith of the saints. Our faith is more precious than gold to our Father. Our Father refines us but not as gold or silver but in the furnace of ffliction. He does this so we not be cut off.

All above are fromt he Word paraphrased with understanding…...We can have nothing of value without have received the gift of faith.

 

[Guojing]

My definition of gift is a purchased item (salvation was purchased by the blood of Jesus) given freely to whoever receives it.
So His Blood was the cost...faith freely receives it.
Others who starve to death thinking they will earn favor with God are wrong, because they think they can obtain salvation through their works.

But if I received salvation freely during the Tribulation thru believing in Jesus, but someone later tell me I will also need to reject the mark of the beast, otherwise I will lose that salvation, is it wrong for me to conclude that the gift was not really free?

 

[Nehemiah6]

What do you think is the difference between "paying a price" for being a Christian, and "having to do works" for being a Christian?

The Bible is very clear and plain that salvation (eternal life) is A GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE to those who obey the Gospel. So no one can earn salvation through any good works.

Will salvation be still a gift if you have to pay a price for it?

SALVATION WILL ALWAYS BE A GIFT, BUT THERE IS A HIGH COST TO BEING A FAITHFUL DISCIPLE AND WITNESS.

ALL THE APOSTLES WERE MARTYRS. The word *martyr* literally means witness.

 

[Guojing]

The Bible is very clear and plain that salvation (eternal life) is A GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE to those who obey the Gospel. So no one can earn salvation through any good works.

SALVATION WILL ALWAYS BE A GIFT, BUT THERE IS A HIGH COST TO BEING A FAITHFUL DISCIPLE AND WITNESS.

ALL THE APOSTLES WERE MARTYRS. The word *martyr* literally means witness.

Is that true even during the Tribulation?

If one needs to also reject the mark of the beast to keep their salvation, you do not consider that as a work? If you meet others who do, do you think they are wrong?