On being an endangered species of an endangered species

[HistoryPrincess]

Let me tell you a bit about myself.

I am a 25-year-old Christian girl who's never dated, who's never had sex of any kind, has never looked at porn, has virtually no prospects in sight, and is not asexual or homosexual.

How does that make you feel toward me? Do you view me with pity or admiration? Pity that I've never been in love and found that special someone? Or admiration that I've somehow figured out the secret to controlling my impulses?

What I can say is that someone like me does not belong either in secular society or church society. Secular society says I should be allowed to sleep with whoever I want, whether or not I'm married. Church society by and large elevates marriage and motherhood to a degree that most churches would not know what to do with someone like me.

Therefore, it's safe to say I don't belong anywhere. I would like to be married, but not as much as I used to. And in my years of singleness, I've learned some very valuable lessons that I think both secular society and church society could learn. And I would be interested in starting a discussion about these lessons with anyone curious enough to listen.

 

[Stranger36147]

Well, assuming you're telling the truth, you definitely sound like a rare specimen. And I don't mean that in a mean or offensive way. I think you stand out in a good way.


So....good for you. Nothing to be ashamed of, in my personal opinion.

 

[cinder]

Let me tell you a bit about myself.

I am a 25-year-old Christian girl who's never dated, who's never had sex of any kind, has never looked at porn, has virtually no prospects in sight, and is not asexual or homosexual.

How does that make you feel toward me? Do you view me with pity or admiration? Pity that I've never been in love and found that special someone? Or admiration that I've somehow figured out the secret to controlling my impulses?

What I can say is that someone like me does not belong either in secular society or church society. Secular society says I should be allowed to sleep with whoever I want, whether or not I'm married. Church society by and large elevates marriage and motherhood to a degree that most churches would not know what to do with someone like me.

Therefore, it's safe to say I don't belong anywhere. I would like to be married, but not as much as I used to. And in my years of singleness, I've learned some very valuable lessons that I think both secular society and church society could learn. And I would be interested in starting a discussion about these lessons with anyone curious enough to listen.

Let's see my thoughts:

1) This post sounds like you've got a bone to pick with the world at large for not fitting in. I totally understand the feeling, but I'm not inclined to seek out the counsel of those who sound bitter or frustrated. Most of us have had similar feelings of doing things the Christian way severely limits our marriage prospects, but being unmarried in church makes us feel like second class citizens. The challenge is not to believe the lies and limits other people try to place on the single, celibate status.

2) Obedience from lack of opportunity or desire isn't the same as overcoming temptation.

3) A thread about the gifts, lessons, and examples that singles can provide to the world and the church sounds like a brilliant thread idea.

 

[Adstar]

Let me tell you a bit about myself.

I am a 25-year-old Christian girl who's never dated, who's never had sex of any kind, has never looked at porn, has virtually no prospects in sight, and is not asexual or homosexual.

How does that make you feel toward me?

Why should your relationship history provoke any strong feelings from me towards you? Either way?

Do you view me with pity or admiration?

Neither.. Maybe if i knew why you have been living in this situation then it may cause me to have an opinion worthy to share.. But not knowing why you are as you are means i cannot establish any opinion..

Pity that I've never been in love and found that special someone?

Well again if you where a person suffering anxiety and stress over not finding that special someone. then i would feel sad that you where sad about it.. That's empathy working within me.. But you may be at peace about it and you may be enjoying the fact that you have been given some extra years of freedom.. Then i would be happy for you..

You see to have either pity or happiness for someone without finding out their deeper feelings about their situation would be just me projecting my assumptions upon you..

Or admiration that I've somehow figured out the secret to controlling my impulses?

Have you? See i don't know.. But thinking about this statement deeper is obtaining a loving relationship with that special someone an ""impulse"" to be controlled,, resisted.. I don't think so.. So i assume your talking about sexual desires.. If so that is a totally different topic that is separate to a loving relationship..

What I can say is that someone like me does not belong either in secular society or church society. Secular society says I should be allowed to sleep with whoever I want, whether or not I'm married. Church society by and large elevates marriage and motherhood to a degree that most churches would not know what to do with someone like me.

Well secular society tells woman to set their standards as high as they can and never to settle for just any man.. And you having never settled for a guy could well be seen as admirable in some sections of the secular society.. In "'church society"" you having kept yourself from fornication and looking for a man of God at your age would see you fit right into the church scene..

Oh and the age of 25 is still young.. Reading your posts it seems as if you think others would look upon you as a 40 year old woman who has never had a serious relationship with a man.. But 25 years old does not cause me and i suspect a lot of people in this forum to be shocked or worried about your relationship history.. You have had hardly had enough time to have a history you so young..

Therefore, it's safe to say I don't belong anywhere.

That statement seems to be to be coming from inside your own mind.. Not something that is coming from those around you.. Either secular or religious people around you.. I believe your perceptions are wrong in regard to religious society.. You would probably be considered a noble Christian woman in a church setting to the point of some religious woman being jealous of you..

I would like to be married, but not as much as I used to.

Well that is understandable because that's what happened to me.. I found out in my later teens i was not girls ""cup of tea"" that i was deemed to be one of the boring guys.. So by the time i was in my mid 20's i had totally moved on from all the anxiety of getting a relationship and getting married thing... As i have said in a recent post on a similar issue.. The old saying strike when the iron is hot.. rings true when it comes to relationships.. You really want to get a man or a woman when they are at the age when they want to establish a relationship, when they are Hot.. Otherwise they will grow older and the heat will dissipate and they will no longer have that desire to get married..

And in my years of singleness, I've learned some very valuable lessons that I think both secular society and church society could learn. And I would be interested in starting a discussion about these lessons with anyone curious enough to listen.

Well feel free to share the thoughts you have on being single.. I am 53 and i have never been married so it will be interesting to read your perspective on the issue..

Oh and PS:: Having just revealed my age has made me think about your being single at 25 and not fitting into the religious crowd statement and i giggled and a big smile came across my face.. I am religious because i believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured on the cross for my salvation.. I am not a Christian because i feel i ""fit in"" with religious people.

What a sad and depressed person i would be if i was crippled by the feeling that i must conform and fit into other peoples expectations of me.. I am glad i am free from being a chained monkey on a grinder dancing to other peoples tunes..

 

[Pipp]

I dont think you're quite as endangered species as you think. Im 35 and have a very similar background. The church doesn't make me feel like I missed my mark in life.... maybe its church you attend thats making you feel that way ?

 

[HistoryPrincess]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll do my best to answer all the issues raised in your posts.

Something I've left out is that I'm on the spectrum, high-functioning. I view the world differently than others in just about every area of life, including relationships and faith. As a result, I don't have most of the same experiences others have, both in larger society and the church.

I was raised in a loving Christian family, but I didn't become a Christian until I was 17. I've always been introverted, and even before I knew what autism was, I knew I was different from the kids I went to school with. I didn't go to Youth Group after elementary school, cause I didn't know such a thing existed. When I went to church, half the time I didn't go to the sermons, I went to the library, cause I liked to read.

The last thing I want to be is self-righteous, and the last thing I want to do is shame people, but I feel like I'm the only Christian who has any standards anymore. Have you ever noticed that most testimonies are about people who came out of drugs, prostitution, gang violence, etc.? And then you have people like me who grew up in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, and didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, sleep around, and look at porn, not because I was trying to be self-righteous but just because I knew what happens when you do those things?

I don't know, maybe I'm just a natural rebel. But the thing is, even introverts like me get lonely. And in much of the world, the solution to loneliness is to find that special someone. I'm sorry but that's not how real life works. But unfortunately, due to the things we've been fed constantly about relationships all our lives, no matter what I accomplish or what I achieve in life, especially as a woman, it will always be second-rate to finding a man.

And as for all the people who say I'm not odd for being 25 and single, I live in the Bible belt. Most people I know are married by my age.

Maybe I'm tired of all the contest and competition. Maybe I'm tired of hearing, "Oh if you're single you have more ministry opportunities!" Perhaps, but ministry is not something I want to do. I've always been more drawn to the arts. But being an artist in the church is a whole other conversation.

Bottomline, I just want to know that I'm not alone. I'm used to being lonely, but it's nice to know I'm not.

And by the way, I'm not lonely from a lack of effort. I have tried for years to make friends. But I can't be the only one doing all the work.

 

[melita916]

i also live in the bible belt, so i can relate to people getting married young. on top of that, i'm hispanic, so there's the crazy idea that people need to be married by 25, or the "train left you behind." it was challenging for me. i cried a lot. it wasn't until i was about 31 that i was ok with being single.

i always felt a little different from everyone, so i knew my story was going to be different. i got married at 33.

 

[Lynx]

*Lynx watches the train go by yet again, and this time declines to get on board.

 

[HistoryPrincess]

*Lynx watches the train go by yet again, and this time declines to get on board.

No one's asking you to get on board.

 

[HistoryPrincess]

Thing is I've noticed that the church bemoans how sexualized our society has become, and it makes me want to say to them, "You do the exact same thing, just in a different way." That being constantly putting marriage and the nuclear family on a pedestal.

Must every pastor be married? If so, then Jesus and Paul themselves would not be allowed such a position.

Can men and women truly not be friends, especially if they are married? I understand the need to maintain boundaries, but the irony is that in making both genders fear each other rather than teaching them to respect the other as human beings, we've put them more at risk.

I also get the importance of sex and keeping it in marriage. But are marriage and sex needed to be fully human? If this mystical union of body and soul is such a great and universal thing, why restrict it to married people? Why rob everyone else of this joy of joys? Sure, friends are decent, but the real relationship goal is with one's spouse.

Does this all sound familiar? If we church people keep talking like this, we ultimately will not be much different from the sexualized society we stress over. It's no wonder porn use is rampant and singleness and especially lifelong celibacy now feel like a death sentence. If that's so, what do we have to say to the never married, divorced, the widowed, and especially those who experience same-sex attraction?

For that matter, married people have much to learn from singles/celibates as the other way around. For example, what if something happens to your spouse and it becomes physically impossible to have sex with them? What do you do then?

 

[Adstar]

HP.. Being a high functioning person with autism is going to give you a totally different view of society and will cause you a lot of difficulty establishing relationships with guys... I looked up High functioning Autism and i can see why you would get frustrated with the larger community.. But you have to understand the standards of society tend to be formatted for standard people..

So you live in a society where marriage and finding Mr or Mrs right before it is too late is considered the best way to proceed.. For most standard people such a policy does not have to be forced upon them.. many would pursue such a standard course of action without any social pressure to do so) But as you have revealed you are not a standard type person so you have to navigate through your life in a way that is best for your personal situation..

Thing is I've noticed that the church bemoans how sexualized our society has become, and it makes me want to say to them, "You do the exact same thing, just in a different way." That being constantly putting marriage and the nuclear family on a pedestal.

Well again for standard people the best chance at a "good life" is to pursue marriage and family life so it should be understandable that they would put such an option on a pedestal.. But again since you are not a standard person you should not allow this to cause you any unease.. Just live your life in the best way you can and don't spend your life worrying about what others think if their thoughts have no validity in regards to you because of the way you are.. Of course some critisisms may be valid, it is up to you to asses them and decide which is valid and which is not..

Must every pastor be married? If so, then Jesus and Paul themselves would not be allowed such a position.

Don't mix up the traditions of your church with Bible Christianity.. The Bible does declare that a Bishop must be the husband of one wife.. It does not declare anything in relation to a Pastor..

Also Jesus is the Messiah/Christ that was His ministry and he was not a pastor..
Also with Paul He was a prophet / preacher and not a pastor..

Can men and women truly not be friends, especially if they are married?

Yes men and woman can be friends, But with Standard people there is always the possibility that one or both of the friends will find their feelings for their friend morphing into love.. Actually it is a bonus and to be desired ( for standard people) to be friends with the person they love and form their life partnership with..

I understand the need to maintain boundaries, but the irony is that in making both genders fear each other rather than teaching them to respect the other as human beings, we've put them more at risk.

Fear each other? It seems from your question above your questions here are more to do with your particular church / denomination rather then question related to the scriptures of the Bible.. You seem to be having more difficulties with the teachings of your church then the teachings of the Bible..

I also get the importance of sex and keeping it in marriage. But are marriage and sex needed to be fully human?

No.. But again for standard people it is usually preferred to give them something worthy in life.. To give them a life worth living.. But for non-standard people other avenues may be a better policy..

If this mystical union of body and soul is such a great and universal thing, why restrict it to married people? Why rob everyone else of this joy of joys? Sure, friends are decent, but the real relationship goal is with one's spouse.

Because the wisdom of God declares that such relationships should be with the bounds of marriage.. Now this is where Faith is important.. Trusting Gods standards is part of being a Christian..

Does this all sound familiar? If we church people keep talking like this, we ultimately will not be much different from the sexualized society we stress over. It's no wonder porn use is rampant and singleness and especially lifelong celibacy now feel like a death sentence. If that's so, what do we have to say to the never married, divorced, the widowed, and especially those who experience same-sex attraction?

Well as a never married person i have no problems with being so because Paul was acceptable to God and He never married.. But again i am thinking your Christianity is based upon what the church you go to has preached to you rather then being a strictly Bible based belief.. Of the examples you gave the scriptures declare same sex attraction to be an abomination to God so the scriptures have a message for those people that they need to resist that attraction and rely on the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to be Redeemed on the day of Judgement..

For that matter, married people have much to learn from singles/celibates as the other way around. For example, what if something happens to your spouse and it becomes physically impossible to have sex with them? What do you do then?

You become celibate...

 

[HistoryPrincess]

"HP.. Being a high functioning person with autism is going to give you a totally different view of society and will cause you a lot of difficulty establishing relationships with guys... I looked up High functioning Autism and i can see why you would get frustrated with the larger community.. But you have to understand the standards of society tend to be formatted for standard people.."

That's no excuse. What is "standard" and "normal" anyway?

"So you live in a society where marriage and finding Mr or Mrs right before it is too late is considered the best way to proceed.. For most standard people such a policy does not have to be forced upon them.. many would pursue such a standard course of action without any social pressure to do so) But as you have revealed you are not a standard type person so you have to navigate through your life in a way that is best for your personal situation.."

A lot of people feel pressure to pursue marriage. I've heard from them. I myself have felt it. I'm not the only one. This isn't just my personal situation. Married people are no longer the majority in the general population, but they are the majority in the church. Something's wrong with that.

"Well again for standard people the best chance at a "good life" is to pursue marriage and family life so it should be understandable that they would put such an option on a pedestal.. But again since you are not a standard person you should not allow this to cause you any unease.. Just live your life in the best way you can and don't spend your life worrying about what others think if their thoughts have no validity in regards to you because of the way you are.. Of course some critisisms may be valid, it is up to you to asses them and decide which is valid and which is not.."

It doesn't matter if it's understandable. Putting marriage on a pedestal like that is idolatry. I can't live my life the best way on my own. If we want celibacy to be a feasible lifestyle, we have a responsibility to make it palatable by being realistic about marriage. That's it's not all rainbows and roses and sex.

"Don't mix up the traditions of your church with Bible Christianity.. The Bible does declare that a Bishop must be the husband of one wife.. It does not declare anything in relation to a Pastor.."

It does not say that a Bishop/Pastor, must be married. Polygamy back then was much more common than it is now. It also does not say a woman cannot be a pastor, but that's a whole other conversation. This is not tradition. I have studied that passage for myself.

"Also Jesus is the Messiah/Christ that was His ministry and he was not a pastor..
Also with Paul He was a prophet / preacher and not a pastor.."

Wrong. Jesus is the good shepherd. What is a pastor? A shepherd. And regardless, Paul was a church leader, a very highly respected one at that.

"Yes men and woman can be friends, But with Standard people there is always the possibility that one or both of the friends will find their feelings for their friend morphing into love.. Actually it is a bonus and to be desired ( for standard people) to be friends with the person they love and form their life partnership with.."

Is it a bonus? To view all of the opposite sex just as potential spouses? Look up Catholic history. There are a lot of friendships between men and women that did not blossom into romance, intimate friendships that were not sexual but where the two loved each other nonetheless. We need more stories like that.

"Fear each other? It seems from your question above your questions here are more to do with your particular church / denomination rather then question related to the scriptures of the Bible.. You seem to be having more difficulties with the teachings of your church then the teachings of the Bible.."

It's not just me. We have the Billy Graham rule and True Love Waits. Well, we did at least.

"No.. But again for standard people it is usually preferred to give them something worthy in life.. To give them a life worth living.. But for non-standard people other avenues may be a better policy.."

How do you know what most people want and prefer anyway? Do they really prefer that, or do they feel peer pressure?

"Because the wisdom of God declares that such relationships should be with the bounds of marriage.. Now this is where Faith is important.. Trusting Gods standards is part of being a Christian.."

I'm not questioning the wisdom of God. I'm questioning the hyping of sex in marriage to the point where people marry just to have sex and then find out there's a ton more to marriage beyond that. I'm questioning theology that says sex is the highest form of love, when the bible says the highest form of love is to lay down one's life for one's friends.

"Well as a never married person i have no problems with being so because Paul was acceptable to God and He never married.. But again i am thinking your Christianity is based upon what the church you go to has preached to you rather then being a strictly Bible based belief.. Of the examples you gave the scriptures declare same sex attraction to be an abomination to God so the scriptures have a message for those people that they need to resist that attraction and rely on the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ to be Redeemed on the day of Judgement.."

I'm not arguing for gay marriage. I'm arguing for making sure that celibates in general, same-sex attracted or not, are not sentenced to a life of loneliness just because they aren't married. Marriage cannot possibly fulfill all your relationship needs, and we need to stop acting like it can. Friendship has become a lost art and it needs to be recovered, especially now. People who are same-sex attracted should not be held to a higher sexual standard than straights. If celibacy is good for them, it's good for everyone.

"You become celibate...[/QUOTE]"

How can you though when use of porn is rampant and Protestant theology in general doesn't support celibacy? Where do you find support for it?

 

[Brandon123]

Let me tell you a bit about myself.

I am a 25-year-old Christian girl who's never dated, who's never had sex of any kind, has never looked at porn, has virtually no prospects in sight, and is not asexual or homosexual.

How does that make you feel toward me? Do you view me with pity or admiration? Pity that I've never been in love and found that special someone? Or admiration that I've somehow figured out the secret to controlling my impulses?

What I can say is that someone like me does not belong either in secular society or church society. Secular society says I should be allowed to sleep with whoever I want, whether or not I'm married. Church society by and large elevates marriage and motherhood to a degree that most churches would not know what to do with someone like me.

Therefore, it's safe to say I don't belong anywhere. I would like to be married, but not as much as I used to. And in my years of singleness, I've learned some very valuable lessons that I think both secular society and church society could learn. And I would be interested in starting a discussion about these lessons with anyone curious enough to listen.

I agree with Stranger...I think you’re heart is in the right place...definitely admiration from me...in fact I would say more like the cream of the crop....saving yourself will bring nothing but blessing...weather you marry or not...so don’t be disheartened🙂

 

[HistoryPrincess]

I agree with Stranger...I think you’re heart is in the right place...definitely admiration from me...in fact I would say more like the cream of the crop....saving yourself will bring nothing but blessing...weather you marry or not...so don’t be disheartened🙂

The problem is, if I don't ever marry, what am I supposed to do? Just be a cheerleader for married people and live alone?

 

[Brandon123]

The problem is, if I don't ever marry, what am I supposed to do? Just be a cheerleader for married people and live alone?

Well if you don’t then it is what it is...I have a disability too and in my situation it would literally be a miracle if I found someone or if they found me...as far as being a Christian goes..there should not be an ounce of shame there Paul explained that it’s better not to marry if you are given the ability not to so that your priorities will be for the lord rather than pleasing your spouse and being dedicated to your relationship with him also...don’t worry! If your intent on marrying you will find the right person or they you...as far as what other people think You can’t control that ... Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all of these things will be added unto you - don’t worry He will give you exactly what you need.. weather that be strength to be single or a husband that you will love and cherish🙂

 

[HistoryPrincess]

We'll see.

By the way, my interests are not naturally inclined toward ministry, but art. And not "Christian" art either. Nothing immoral, but I now kinda distrust Christian movies and things like that because of their implicit agenda.

 

[TamLynn]

Implicit agenda?

 

[HistoryPrincess]

Implicit agenda?

Christian movies (by which I mean movies made largely by Christians) by their nature are agenda driven. Someone always converts in the end. Someone who does bad things (but not really bad things, God forbid) turns around. People don't really struggle. And Christians always "own" their atheist enemies.

 

[Ohm]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll do my best to answer all the issues raised in your posts.

Something I've left out is that I'm on the spectrum, high-functioning. I view the world differently than others in just about every area of life, including relationships and faith. As a result, I don't have most of the same experiences others have, both in larger society and the church.

I was raised in a loving Christian family, but I didn't become a Christian until I was 17. I've always been introverted, and even before I knew what autism was, I knew I was different from the kids I went to school with. I didn't go to Youth Group after elementary school, cause I didn't know such a thing existed. When I went to church, half the time I didn't go to the sermons, I went to the library, cause I liked to read.

The last thing I want to be is self-righteous, and the last thing I want to do is shame people, but I feel like I'm the only Christian who has any standards anymore. Have you ever noticed that most testimonies are about people who came out of drugs, prostitution, gang violence, etc.? And then you have people like me who grew up in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, and didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, sleep around, and look at porn, not because I was trying to be self-righteous but just because I knew what happens when you do those things?

I don't know, maybe I'm just a natural rebel. But the thing is, even introverts like me get lonely. And in much of the world, the solution to loneliness is to find that special someone. I'm sorry but that's not how real life works. But unfortunately, due to the things we've been fed constantly about relationships all our lives, no matter what I accomplish or what I achieve in life, especially as a woman, it will always be second-rate to finding a man.

And as for all the people who say I'm not odd for being 25 and single, I live in the Bible belt. Most people I know are married by my age.

Maybe I'm tired of all the contest and competition. Maybe I'm tired of hearing, "Oh if you're single you have more ministry opportunities!" Perhaps, but ministry is not something I want to do. I've always been more drawn to the arts. But being an artist in the church is a whole other conversation.

Bottomline, I just want to know that I'm not alone. I'm used to being lonely, but it's nice to know I'm not.

And by the way, I'm not lonely from a lack of effort. I have tried for years to make friends. But I can't be the only one doing all the work.

Chase the art. The only opinion of you that matters in life is your own. What I mean by that is not to dismiss people or be rude or nasty or selfish, but to follow what you as a human being want. Life on Earth isn't very long, and it can be a fantastic gift or an unwanted curse depending on how a person approaches it.

There's nothing wrong with being 25 and unmarried. In my part of the world, that is entirely normal.

Have you ever thought of travelling?

 

[HistoryPrincess]

Chase the art. The only opinion of you that matters in life is your own. What I mean by that is not to dismiss people or be rude or nasty or selfish, but to follow what you as a human being want. Life on Earth isn't very long, and it can be a fantastic gift or an unwanted curse depending on how a person approaches it.

There's nothing wrong with being 25 and unmarried. In my part of the world, that is entirely normal.

Have you ever thought of travelling?

I have no money. Besides, flying isn't my favorite method of travel.