Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Wow man.....you seem to be another cake taker.......twice dead and Jude is about false teachers and even compares them to three men....so which one are you? PROBABLY Cain.....he peddled some sort of self saving works based lie........and it must be tragic to serve a weak inept lying god that cannot keep his word..
Irrevocable <----try this word....it is applied unto the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD.........and salvation is a gift!!
Irrevocable <----try this word....it is applied unto the GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD.........and salvation is a gift!!
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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Hebrews 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Hebrews 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
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Another use of Hebrews out of context to peddle that which it does not peddle...
a. Written to Hebrews wanting to go back to the inferior way
b. Under that system one died under the banner of two or three witnesses for disobedience
c. HOw much worse for those that reject GRACE IN FAVOR OF THE INFERIOR WAY
It is not peddling the loss of salvation.....geesh....
a. Written to Hebrews wanting to go back to the inferior way
b. Under that system one died under the banner of two or three witnesses for disobedience
c. HOw much worse for those that reject GRACE IN FAVOR OF THE INFERIOR WAY
It is not peddling the loss of salvation.....geesh....
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Hi again LW97, here is the complete passage (my "excerpt" from my last post is the text in bold, while the litotes that you pointed out for us is in orange).
I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but we had family visiting from out of town and I didn't have time to keep up with any ongoing conversations for the last few days. Of course, now the holiday at hand, but I should still have more free time than I did when we had family staying with us.
I'm hoping that we'll be able to take some time to get at the full meaning of that amazing/wondrous litotes that you pointed out in v37b, but for now I simply wanted to say that it has little to no qualifying effect on what the Lord said to us in v39b.
That said, please tell me/us what point you are trying to make concerning ἔρχομαι as a present tense verb in v37b.
Thanks
~Deut
John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but we had family visiting from out of town and I didn't have time to keep up with any ongoing conversations for the last few days. Of course, now the holiday at hand, but I should still have more free time than I did when we had family staying with us.
I'm hoping that we'll be able to take some time to get at the full meaning of that amazing/wondrous litotes that you pointed out in v37b, but for now I simply wanted to say that it has little to no qualifying effect on what the Lord said to us in v39b.
The Lord said, 1. of all that He has ~given~ Me ... whether they've come to Him yet or not ... 2. I lose nothing.
That said, please tell me/us what point you are trying to make concerning ἔρχομαι as a present tense verb in v37b.
Thanks
~Deut
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IMHO teaching that one can lose one's salvation would cause the believer to live in a constant state of fear that they might have committed some kind of sin that could have caused them to lose their place in Heaven. What is this sin? How many times must one sin in order to finally be kicked out of the kingdom? All I can see that would do is cause people to try and work their way into Heaven by continually doing the right thing, resulting in a lifeless and legalistic walk with Christ.
On the other hand, there must be some kind of accountability to us as believers. We can't simply live as we choose and not expect consequences for sin. If we're living like, smelling like and looking like the world, and we call ourselves believers, there is a problem somewhere.
Do you not think that the consequences for drifting away from Christ as a believer are not loss of salvation, but loss of other things? Such as peace, joy, fulfilment, strength, the ability to hear God and relate to Him, the wisdom to know the difference between right and wrong? If we choose to distance ourselves from God, we quench and grieve the Holy Spirit. We become unloving, hard-headed, prideful and selfish.
I think, that the Bible teaches there will be rewards in Heaven. See 2 Corinthians 5:10. If we're faithful in service to Christ, we'll receive an inheritance. Now, while I don't believe God shows favoritism and there will be no envy in Heaven, He does promise that our works will be tested as if by fire. If what we've done is for ourselves, it will be burned up though we ourselves may escape (but only just!). If we are faithful to the calling of Christ, we will receive the fullness of the blessing God has appointed to us.
On the other hand, there must be some kind of accountability to us as believers. We can't simply live as we choose and not expect consequences for sin. If we're living like, smelling like and looking like the world, and we call ourselves believers, there is a problem somewhere.
Do you not think that the consequences for drifting away from Christ as a believer are not loss of salvation, but loss of other things? Such as peace, joy, fulfilment, strength, the ability to hear God and relate to Him, the wisdom to know the difference between right and wrong? If we choose to distance ourselves from God, we quench and grieve the Holy Spirit. We become unloving, hard-headed, prideful and selfish.
I think, that the Bible teaches there will be rewards in Heaven. See 2 Corinthians 5:10. If we're faithful in service to Christ, we'll receive an inheritance. Now, while I don't believe God shows favoritism and there will be no envy in Heaven, He does promise that our works will be tested as if by fire. If what we've done is for ourselves, it will be burned up though we ourselves may escape (but only just!). If we are faithful to the calling of Christ, we will receive the fullness of the blessing God has appointed to us.
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