100% Election 100% of the time.

[Skyline]

No one is challenging foreordained election. What is being challenged is the Calvinistic idea of what that means.

GOD PREDESTINES NO ONE FOR SALVATION OR DAMNATION. THAT IS A LIE OF THE DEVIL.

So what is divine election and predestination all about? The Bible makes it crystal clear:

1. TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29)

2. WHICH MEANS TO BE PERFECTED IN CHRIST
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (Eph 1:4)

3. WHICH MEANS THE FULL POSITION OF BEING *ADOPTED* CHILDREN OF GOD
Having predestinated us unto the adoption* of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will (Eph 1:5)

Divine adoption is not the same as human adoption. Human adoption is accepting children who were not related biologically into the family as children. Divine adoption means placing those who are genuine children of God into the position of full sonship and heirship -- heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

*Strong's Concordance
huiothesia: adoption
Original Word: υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: huiothesia
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: adoption
Usage: adoption, as a son into the divine family.

Vine's Expository Dictionary
"Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons.

Agreed

 

[PennEd]

It’s sad that men have tried to put God in a box; as if His intellectual design could not account for a man/women choosing - or is somehow limited to time/space. We see everything linear; He does not. He already knows the choices you will make. He is looking down on to the whole picture. He has seen the movie and knows who the bad guys are.
Adam chose to eat the fruit and there were consequences. God knew this would happen and had a plan for this.
Select Election is something elitists and pharasies would say; they are special and chosen. IMAGINE your child not being chosen if you believe in that lie; to see them in Hell while you’re in heaven and not because they themselves decided to reject the Lord but because they did not win the lottery.
I agree it is not scriptural and goes against the nature of God as described in the bible.

So you YOURSELF DECIDED that you would muster YOUR faith to believe out of YOUR wicked, dead heart, and conceive, and birth yourself a NEW Spirit?

But OTHERS, who are either too stupid, or love their sin more than you did, DESERVE eternal damnation. Well done!

Boast away!

 

[Skyline]

So you YOURSELF DECIDED that you would muster YOUR faith to believe out of YOUR wicked, dead heart, and conceive, and birth yourself a NEW Spirit?

But OTHERS, who are either too stupid, or love their sin more than you did, DESERVE eternal damnation. Well done!

Boast away!

That is not what I am saying; I disagree with those saying some are picked to NEVER get a choice/chance.
Again I don’t know well the various groups of Christianity (Calvins, etc etc) - I know what I read/interpret/am fed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[PennEd]

That is not what I am saying; I disagree with those saying some are picked to NEVER get a choice/chance.
Again I don’t know well the various groups of Christianity (Calvins, etc etc) - I know what I read/interpret/am fed with the Holy Spirit.

Ah. I see. So you are not crazy about other people defining your belief. That sounds reasonable.


Why not follow that rule yourself about others?

Oh, and BTW, welcome to CC. Might wanna try the prayer request forum, or more light hearted forum, before jumping right into a very contentious issue on the BDF.

 

[Skyline]

Very contentious is an understatement haha
You are correct; I was harsh and I apologize. I didn’t even know people thought like that before I read this thread.
God bless you

 

[PennEd]

Very contentious is an understatement haha
You are correct; I was harsh and I apologize. I didn’t even know people thought like that before I read this thread.
God bless you

No worries brother. Be blessed here at CC. sorry about the harsh reply.

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree it is not scriptural and goes against the nature of God as described in the bible.

Yes it does.

 

[Skyline]

Yes it does.

I read more into Calvin and teachings of people like John Piper. Wow
Foundation of 1) fear and 2) misanthropy
Keep up the good fight UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 and others - but I’m out; this forum has too many groups and life is too short!
I love you all!

“Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Nehemiah6]

Keep up the good fight UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 and others - but I’m out; this forum has too many groups and life is too short!

Thanks for your input. We have people like Sackcloth-N-Ashes punching the "old" icon in many of my posts, yet none of this has sunk in. A wall goes up when God's truth is presented as though it means nothing. Truly shameful.

 

[cv5]

It’s sad that men have tried to put God in a box; as if His intellectual design could not account for a man/women choosing - or is somehow limited to time/space. We see everything linear; He does not. He already knows the choices you will make. He is looking down on to the whole picture. He has seen the movie and knows who the bad guys are.
Adam chose to eat the fruit and there were consequences. God knew this would happen and had a plan for this.
Select Election is something elitists and pharasies would say; they are special and chosen. IMAGINE your child not being chosen if you believe in that lie; to see them in Hell while you’re in heaven and not because they themselves decided to reject the Lord but because they did not win the lottery.
I agree it is not scriptural and goes against the nature of God as described in the bible.

"Election is something elitists and pharasies would say"

Paul preached election AFTER abandoning his elitist Pharisee guise.....

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul preached election AFTER abandoning his elitist Pharisee guise.....

Paul did NOT preach Calvinistic election. So kindly pay CLOSE ATTENTION to what Paul actually preached:

ACTS 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Does this passage -- or does it not -- say that all nations of men on the face of this earth should seek the Lord so that they may find Him, and that God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, since He is giving all men assurance that Christ is both Lord and Savior through His resurrection? So how can there be Calvinistic election when all men are commanded to repent and believe of the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not Calvinistic Unconditional Election then a lie of the devil?

 

[Journeyman]

God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, since He is giving all men assurance that Christ is both Lord and Savior through His resurrection

Exactly right.

 

[UnderGrace]

I read more into Calvin and teachings of people like John Piper. Wow
Foundation of 1) fear and 2) misanthropy
Keep up the good fight UnderGrace and Nehemiah6 and others - but I’m out; this forum has too many groups and life is too short!
I love you all!

“Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Yes it is ubiquitous... writers and churches sadly. I am just glad you have eyes to recognize it.
Peace and grace Skyline..... yeah I am about done too....we know God is good, desiring all to come to repentance (a change of mind).

 

[UnderGrace]

Thanks for your input. We have people like Sackcloth-N-Ashes punching the "old" icon in many of my posts, yet none of this has sunk in. A wall goes up when God's truth is presented as though it means nothing. Truly shameful.

Yes the wall, shameful and sad.
These doctrines are wholly influenced by Augustine....that right there should sound an alarm.

 

[cv5]

Paul did NOT preach Calvinistic election. So kindly pay CLOSE ATTENTION to what Paul actually preached:

ACTS 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Does this passage -- or does it not -- say that all nations of men on the face of this earth should seek the Lord so that they may find Him, and that God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, since He is giving all men assurance that Christ is both Lord and Savior through His resurrection? So how can there be Calvinistic election when all men are commanded to repent and believe of the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not Calvinistic Unconditional Election then a lie of the devil?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

http://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=Election

 

[PennEd]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

http://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=Election

Yes. It is shameful and sad, that pride in self, and one's own ability to choose God, cannot be seen by those that think they birthed themselves. If faith comes from YOU and NOT a gift of God, it IS a work that one can boast in.

 

[cv5]

Paul did NOT preach Calvinistic election. So kindly pay CLOSE ATTENTION to what Paul actually preached:

ACTS 17
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Does this passage -- or does it not -- say that all nations of men on the face of this earth should seek the Lord so that they may find Him, and that God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, since He is giving all men assurance that Christ is both Lord and Savior through His resurrection? So how can there be Calvinistic election when all men are commanded to repent and believe of the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not Calvinistic Unconditional Election then a lie of the devil?

"predestined"
https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=predestined

"predestinated"
https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=predestinated

"elect"
https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=elect

"foreknowledge"
https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=foreknowledge

"chosen"
https://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=chosen

That is a massive compendium of scripture that constitutes boilerplate doctrine IMO.

 

[Journeyman]

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"

http://biblehub.net/searchnt.php?q=Election

"Through Jesus Christ". Jesus came into this world,

that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pet.1:21

 

[Journeyman]

Yes. It is shameful and sad, that pride in self, and one's own ability to choose God, cannot be seen by those that think they birthed themselves. If faith comes from YOU and NOT a gift of God, it IS a work that one can boast in.

What pride is there in realizing we're sinners in need of God's forgiveness?

 

[notuptome]

Yes. It is shameful and sad, that pride in self, and one's own ability to choose God, cannot be seen by those that think they birthed themselves. If faith comes from YOU and NOT a gift of God, it IS a work that one can boast in.

Does God gift every man with sufficient faith to choose? John 1:9

Why do we argue against God as sovereign? Why cannot God be sovereign and allow men to choose? Can the will of man be a threat to the will of God?

For the cause of Christ
Roger