Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I hope that is not his agenda , I am not that discerning...xox...

Sure you are and that is exactly what he is doing........

 

[dcontroversal]

ah, here we go= Paul contradicts Jesus .

so, Law keeping for salvation. Sabbath keeping for salvation. ( you did not say that here, you will get to it)

you all operate from the same script- show up here, act friendly, say you " just want to try to share and learn" then you start knit picking little things, then openly disagreeing, then you roll out your agenda , as you did here.

the next part is telling us we are not saved if we do not keep the Jewish Law and Sabbath.

so, go ahead. you know you want to.

What he said in his first two or three lines ---->NOT of GOD....and I had no need to read past his blather of Paul contradicting JESUS....

 

[OneOfHis]

if satan makes you feel at lost with existence, and tell you "without sin, you will never be happy"

and James 4:7 says "submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you"?

how do we submit if we feel lost
how do we resist if Satan feels overwhelming?

sent a pm...

 

[theanointedwinner]

sent a pm...

pray for me, satan can create hell out of thin air

and I pm-ed you more questions

 

[Rosemaryx]

Sure you are and that is exactly what he is doing........

To be honest D , I did not even read his post , mainly because it was not paragraphed , but as soon as I see gb9 comment , I took note of that...
So why do they come in sneaky , pretending to be all nice , that is satanic first of all , to come in with intentions to deceive ...xox...

 

[dcontroversal]

pray for me, satan can create hell out of thin air

Satan has no power over a believer........unless God allows it VIZ. JOB

 

[dcontroversal]

To be honest D , I did not even read his post , mainly because it was not paragraphed , but as soon as I see gb9 comment , I took note of that...
So why do they come in sneaky , pretending to be all nice , that is satanic first of all , to come in with intentions to deceive ...xox...

AMEN ROSE....anyone that states or believes that Paul contradicts JESUS is one of the following...

a. Deceived
b. A liar
c. False
d. Not of God
e. Deceptive

 

[Skyline]

I don’t get that thinking at all. Jesus is God, the bible is the word of God. That includes what is written through Paul by God.
It’s like only reading the red font in the bible and putting everything else second...
Don’t Muslims say the same thing about Paul?

 

[dcontroversal]

I don’t get that thinking at all. Jesus is God, the bible is the word of God. That includes what is written through Paul by God.
It’s like only reading the red font in the bible and putting everything else second...
Don’t Muslims say the same thing about Paul?

Not only that but it reeks of ignorance, stupidity and or is just a flat denial of the truth...

a. Jesus called, qualified and sent PAUL
b. Paul was taught by direct REVELATION from JESUS
c. JESUS had any things to say but the disciples were not yet ready to bear it<---The words of Paul
d. WHEN PAUL takes personal liberty to state his personal view he states clearly he is doing such

NOTHING he states is contrary to the truth, nor does his words contradict the words of JESUS...that view is idiotic.....!!

 

[Skyline]

Also my understanding is you get rewards for works, not salvation which is by faith, through faith. Maybe you’ll nicer things, although a encouraging word from the Lord itself it will be enough IMO (@ judgment seat of Christ)

 

[Rosemaryx]

Not only that but it reeks of ignorance, stupidity and or is just a flat denial of the truth...

a. Jesus called, qualified and sent PAUL
b. Paul was taught by direct REVELATION from JESUS
c. JESUS had any things to say but the disciples were not yet ready to bear it<---The words of Paul
d. WHEN PAUL takes personal liberty to state his personal view he states clearly he is doing such

NOTHING he states is contrary to the truth, nor does his words contradict the words of JESUS...that view is idiotic.....!!

Correct me if I am wrong...
But wasn`t Paul led away by the Holy Spirit for 2/3 years to Arabia to be taught by the Holy Spirit before he even joined the disciples ?...
God knew what mission Paul had before him , and Paul needed that time alone with our LORD to prepare him...xox...

 

[VCO]

Greetings VCO,
And thank you sincerely for the Verses. Read them twice.

What I find concerning is how many arguments about grace rely almost exclusively on the writings of Paul and very little on those of Jesus. I am not disputing the writings of Paul except to say that the proper interpretation of them are impossible without a close study and understanding of Jesus’ words and works.

Everything Paul says is subject to the authority, works and judgments of Jesus. If anything Paul’s says contradicts Jesus it must be disregarded, period, end of argument.
What I hear in many arguments is that Grace is a means of passing up judgment altogether, but this is not the case. Perhaps this error comes when one thinks there has been a putting away the law, by which God judges all things. However, Jesus did not “put away the law”; more precisely, He upheld it by agreeing to pay its full penalty for the sin of the world. Think about it like this; if He had repealed the law, the entire world would have become sinless, remember “where there is no law, there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15). A doing away with the law would have de-criminalized all sin and made all mankind legally perfect--though personally imperfect.
Instead Jesus paid the full penalty by redeeming the world, re-purchasing it for Himself, which gave Him the lawful authority to “save” them by a longer, painful process of drawing the world by Love.
By paying the penalty for us He retained the right to judge mankind for sin. So, even Christians are disciplined and judged for sin, why? Because the Law remains in effect though under the administration of Jesus. He chose to bear the penalty for the sins of the world and again; retained the right to judge us, not so that we might be lost forever, but so that we would mature and develop the character of Christ. Like a good parent, His judgments are corrective and administered in Love.
But what is Jesus trying to work into us? Simply put; a love of His laws through obedience. Jesus Himself said that the only people that “Loved” Him were those who both Knew and Obeyed HIS LAWS. And he further clarified that these were the only ones both Himself and the Heavenly Father would reveal Themselves to and fellowship with.
Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
We cannot “Love” Him by talking about Him or reciting a profession of faith, this “Love” Jesus is speaking about comes by Knowing and Obeying His commandments.
And, Jesus, speaking of “that day” or the end of this dispensation of “grace” where under less duress we might choose to know and obey His Laws, there would be a “Judgment”, the one He retained to right to when He paid the penalty for our sins.
Those who chose to “Act religious” without learning and obeying His laws under this most favorable dispensation of Grace will be cast out of His presence.
Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
See here; “I never knew you”! Remember for Jesus and The Heavenly Father to make themselves “Known” to us we have to Know and Keep His Laws. By the way the English word in the verse above “iniquity” was translated from the Greek word anomia, which is “a”- without and “nomia” The Law”.

It all fits together perfectly if one chooses to see it. So Grace was not a doing away with The Law or the penalty of The Law, it is a “grace period” under which we might “learn/understand/know/hath” and “keep” The Laws.
Jesus is preparing us for His Kingdom. Those who will inherit the kingdom are those who abide by His Laws or the righteous. And isn’t is strange how much people are attacking everyone who promoted the keeping of the law or righteousness?!
Mat 5:10 KJV Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Who is the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven and who is the least?
Mat 5:19 KJV Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now Please do not take offense to this. After reading it is seems like a Political speech. Are you Practicing to be a Politician or what? You have the ramble on to appear to WISE, Without Saying Much, down pat.

My advise is:

If you got a question or two (no more than two per post), then state it up front.

Make USE of Paragraphs, rambling on like that is the surest way to make people not want to read your posts.

Keep your Verses separate from the Paragraph.

Make your statements brief, and TO THE POINT.


Now here is my statement:

GRACE IS FOREVER!

GRACE is Receiving what you do not deserve, and cannot earn.

MERCY is NOT Receiving what you do Deserve.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Mark 16:20 (NIV)
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it. {Which was including Paul.}

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

That specifically outlines the purpose of the LAW.

 

[dcontroversal]

Correct me if I am wrong...
But wasn`t Paul led away by the Holy Spirit for 2/3 years to Arabia to be taught by the Holy Spirit before he even joined the disciples ?...
God knew what mission Paul had before him , and Paul needed that time alone with our LORD to prepare him...xox...

Exactly and he states clearly that he was taught by direct revelation from JESUS

 

[Rosemaryx]

Exactly and he states clearly that he was taught by direct revelation from JESUS

I love it when the Holy Spirit writes something on our hearts , He calls it to our minds when we need it , just like He did now , although I was a little nervous stating what I said lol...xox...

 

[SimpleGardner]

Now Please do not take offense to this. After reading it is seems like a Political speech. Are you Practicing to be a Politician or what? You have the ramble on to appear to WISE, Without Saying Much, down pat.

My advise is:

If you got a question or two (no more than two per post), then state it up front.

Make USE of Paragraphs, rambling on like that is the surest way to make people not want to read your posts.

Keep your Verses separate from the Paragraph.

Make your statements brief, and TO THE POINT.


Now here is my statement:

GRACE IS FOREVER!

GRACE is Receiving what you do not deserve, and cannot earn.

MERCY is NOT Receiving what you do Deserve.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Mark 16:20 (NIV)
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it. {Which was including Paul.}

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law, because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

That specifically outlines the purpose of the LAW.

Thank you, I will consider your advice.

I understand grace and justification and I agree with you. I did not try to make that point.

However, You and I seem to disagree on the place "commuting to understanding and obeying" the wishes of Jesus and the Heavenly Father plays in "working out our salvation with fear and trembling." From my perspective it is an outworking of grace. So much so that I can see obedience as a loving choice. After all, if our fellowship with Jesus and God hinge on it, then I'm all in! Sure, Israel had to keep the Law of curses would ensue. To me, obedience is an act of love. So, when I hear some speak of it as some kind of compromise or sin I wonder how they could arrive at that.

I really did not have a question in my "bloviating" as you seem to refer to it' .

This is a discussion forum and I hoped for discussion. I thank you for your civility. I am concerned about two others though.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is a discussion forum and I hoped for discussion. I thank you for your civility. I am concerned about two others though.

There is no discussion nor will there be any civility when you openly promote Paul contradicting JESUS.......nor is that view any where NEAR honest with the truth.....!!

 

[theanointedwinner]

https://christianchat.com/prayer-re...-37-may-god-help-us-enjoy-gods-purity.185664/

 

[VCO]

Thank you, I will consider your advice.

I understand grace and justification and I agree with you. I did not try to make that point.

However, You and I seem to disagree on the place "commuting to understanding and obeying" the wishes of Jesus and the Heavenly Father plays in "working out our salvation with fear and trembling." From my perspective it is an outworking of grace. So much so that I can see obedience as a loving choice. After all, if our fellowship with Jesus and God hinge on it, then I'm all in! Sure, Israel had to keep the Law of curses would ensue. To me, obedience is an act of love. So, when I hear some speak of it as some kind of compromise or sin I wonder how they could arrive at that.

I really did not have a question in my "bloviating" as you seem to refer to it' .

This is a discussion forum and I hoped for discussion. I thank you for your civility. I am concerned about two others though.

When I was just learning the proper rules of Interpretation, way younger than I am now (I am 70). The first thing we had to learn was when you THINK you have found a Contradiction in Scripture, YOU HAVE EITHER MADE AN ERROR IN ONE OR BOTH OF THE VERSES.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


Here is the verse you were trying to quote, and it does not mean what I think you meant by it.

Philippians 2:12 (HCSB)
12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


It does not mean we are to work to finish our SALVATION, that was complete before time began.

It means IF YOU REALLY WERE SAVED, You should conduct yourselves in a manor that reflects your LOVE FOR GOD.

OBEDIENCE IS A PRODUCT OF THE LOVE HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS (Human Spirit).


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋
—how can God’s love reside in him?

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy.
. . .

 

[theanointedwinner]

You must wait at least 1 second before performing this action. <-- may we be thankful that salvation is always quicker, amen

 

[Jackson123]

We know them by what they produce, if you produce nothing, then.... You're all talk

You know the tree by It fruit

Matthew 7:16-20 King James Version (KJV)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Yep If a Christian life for a while It must bear good fruit.

It doesn't mean salvation by work.

If a man accept Jesus and a minute later die, he may do not have time to bear fruit, but he save because he have a faith in Jesus.

But If a rober accept Jesus and keep his job as robber for 10 years after, he may not accept Jesus in his heart.

When Jesus in a man heart, that man Will change. Holy spirit have a power to change.

If a branch abide to the vine. It Will bear fruit. A branch can not bear fruit of itself.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love. Jesus give a sampel what is love look like

He die for other. It is impossible for us to die for other

We work to make money for us and our family. Can we work hard to help other?

When Jesus in our heart, He change us and make us able to work, or die for other like what He did oN the cross.