How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today

[shittim]

Crosswalk-
"As a senior member, you should know a person isn't likely to see your post unless you quote them. "
As a christian you should know you shouldn't be presumptive of others .

 

[garee]

I quibble over definitions. I think they are important in a discussion.

When you attempt to belittle something that you don't really understand you lump a lot of people into a group and create animosity (potentially).

I wanted to find out what people are actually against when they speak out against mysticism.

So far I think it is just people that don't call on the Lord Jesus Christ. In all other respects Christians appear to be just like mystics. As far as what I've seen defined as mysticism.

Boils down to two different apposing sources of faith . Of men or of God.? As it is written or as we experience things that are not there and if so why.? A unknown wonderment?

We walk by a exclusive faith as it is written. It reveals the mind of Christ. We do not walk after mysticism a unknown confusion. But clear words that can give a accurate understanding.

Jesus in Mathew 4 set the example defined in Colossians 2:18 . by rather doing the will of the Father not seen putting His words in the mouth of Jesus . Jesus prophesied as the tongue of God ….. as it is written>. .three times, he left. . Jesus as the Son of man refused to worship that angel according to his own fleshly mind who showed Jesus all the kingdoms and all the glory in "will worship ". (will you worship the mind of mysticism)

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Colossians 2:18

 

[crossnote]

Crosswalk-
"As a senior member, you should know a person isn't likely to see your post unless you quote them. "
As a christian you should know you shouldn't be presumptive of others .

Noticing you have responded three times without quoting the person you responded too is not presumptive.

Could you please list why you you believe there are 'lots of error in the OP' as you publicly stated on the last page and then maybe we can discuss the topic rather than each other?

 

[Waggles]

Perhaps they have no concept of the incarnation and it's importance, so every thing is a direct connect with God.

That is just complete nonsense.
When a person prays with their understanding, and especially when a disciple prays in the Spirit [tongues], of course
it is a direct connect to God.
Who are you praying to? Mary? Joseph? St Boniface?

 

[Waggles]

Again, if they are truly led by the Holy Spirit then they had to have come through Calvary. Too many try to bypass Calvary and end up being led by other spirits.

NO too many charismatics bypass obedience to the Word of God and allow themselves to go off course and potentially
led astray by other spirits.
But not all Spirit-filled churches suffer this. There are still good disciplined Pentecostal churches that do all things by the Book.

 

[crossnote]

That is just complete nonsense.
When a person prays with their understanding, and especially when a disciple prays in the Spirit [tongues], of course
it is a direct connect to God.
Who are you praying to? Mary? Joseph? St Boniface?

You really want to get that tongues thing going it seems. lol

I pray to God through the God/man Jesus Christ...
(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[crossnote]

NO too many charismatics bypass obedience to the Word of God and allow themselves to go off course and potentially
led astray by other spirits.
But not all Spirit-filled churches suffer this. There are still good disciplined Pentecostal churches that do all things by the Book.

I never said 'all', actually I never even brought up Charismatics/Pentecostals.
Bypassing the cross is in itself disobedience...

(Joh 10:1) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

We can't bypass the Door or the True Shepherd.

(Joh 10:3) To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
(Joh 10:4) And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

 

[Waggles]

I pray to God through the God/

So if you pray to God then you have a direct 'connect' to God .

 

[Waggles]

We can't bypass the Door or the True Shepherd.

So who exactly is bypassing the door [Jesus] ??

 

[crossnote]

So if you pray to God then you have a direct 'connect' to God .

No, you left out part of my quote.
If you pray to God through through the God/man Jesus Christ you have direct connection to God through Him alone, not through some sort of cosmic spirit.

 

[crossnote]

So who exactly is bypassing the door [Jesus] ??

Sigh. Those who are trying to reach God apart from Christ crucified. I suppose you never heard of those?

 

[Waggles]

Sigh. Those who are trying to reach God apart from Christ crucified. I suppose you never heard of those?

No not really - not as far as most denominations go
but are you referring to Mormons? JW's? sects with their returned Jesus? Hindus?
Who exactly are you accusing of all this mysticism and alternative ways to God??

 

[Waggles]

No, you left out part of my quote.
If you pray to God through through the God/man Jesus Christ you have direct connection to God through Him alone, not through some sort of cosmic spirit.

cosmic spirit !! when did the Holy Spirit become a cosmic spirit?
And even though I pray to my Father God through Jesus Christ my Lord and God it is still a direct connect to God.

 

[crossnote]

No not really - not as far as most denominations go
but are you referring to Mormons? JW's? sects with their returned Jesus? Hindus?
Who exactly are you accusing of all this mysticism and alternative ways to God??

Mostly Christians getting sucked into New Age propaganda.

 

[crossnote]

cosmic spirit !! when did the Holy Spirit become a cosmic spirit?
And even though I pray to my Father God through Jesus Christ my Lord and God it is still a direct connect to God.

When did I say the Holy Spirit was a cosmic spirit? I am referring to seducing spirits drawing away many into false doctrines and practices.

1 Timothy 4:1 (KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Absolutely]

I quibble over definitions. I think they are important in a discussion.

When you attempt to belittle something that you don't really understand you lump a lot of people into a group and create animosity (potentially).

I wanted to find out what people are actually against when they speak out against mysticism.

So far I think it is just people that don't call on the Lord Jesus Christ. In all other respects Christians appear to be just like mystics. As far as what I've seen defined as mysticism.

Yes
That is also what i am seeing.
Without specific examples i suppose they think anything that is not in their narrow view is ichabad.

Too much presuming that the supposed "mystics" are 99% of chritendom,and only baptists (or whatever they label themselves) are the real deal,with most of so called brethren not knowing Jesus is way,way,too broad.

 

[Absolutely]

When did I say the Holy Spirit was a cosmic spirit? I am referring to seducing spirits drawing away many into false doctrines and practices.

1 Timothy 4:1 (KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

And of course we can equally swing the broadbrush pendalem the other way.
"...some will deny the power thereof,from such turn away"

Cessationists taking themselves out, and others abusing the gifts.
Broadbrushing our way to "truth".

Without the Holy Spirit and the counsel of God,confirmed in the word we are blind leading the blind.

Ask the Holy Spirit to lead you.
You can not get a devil from the Holy Spirit

 

[Grandpa]

Yes
That is also what i am seeing.
Without specific examples i suppose they think anything that is not in their narrow view is ichabad.

Too much presuming that the supposed "mystics" are 99% of chritendom,and only baptists (or whatever they label themselves) are the real deal,with most of so called brethren not knowing Jesus is way,way,too broad.

Just look at what happened to Paul, as an example.

He was not a Christian.

Then he had a direct experience with God.

Then he was a great Christian. And it was all because of his "mystical" experience with God. No other reason. Not scripture. Not religious training. Not family background. Not the preaching of the gospel.


So when you say mysticism is undermining Christianity I guess you really need to define what you are talking about. Because mysticism is a direct result of how we have come to have Christianity in the beginning. And it is how we have come to have the scripture that we have.

 

[Absolutely]

That is just complete nonsense.
When a person prays with their understanding, and especially when a disciple prays in the Spirit [tongues], of course
it is a direct connect to God.
Who are you praying to? Mary? Joseph? St Boniface?

In Cessationism it is "solo redemption".
Saved from hell.
So a believer after 50 years as a brother,still emphacises the cross,or salvation.
The Holy Spirit filled believer emphacises the risen savior and flows in the Life in the Spirit.
To us he ain't on that cross.
We celebrate the empty tomb and enjoy the fruit of the Spirit and see beyond the cross.
To us the cross and the blood are a "gimme". We KNOW who and what we are,because of the personal EXPERIENCE of family.
Seated at HIS table.

We dont need to be retaught over and over elemental doctrines.
We know the blood did and continually does what it ment to do.
The cessationists teach crucifixion to mature saints. So any discussion gets reframed into basic salvation.

That is why crossnote leaves out the empty tomb and the veil rent.
What did paul say " therefore we come boldly into the throneroom of God."

All they see is the cross,not us seated in heaven,through the spirit.

So they yank down ,unawares,any that venture into the Spirit.

 

[Absolutely]

Just look at what happened to Paul, as an example.

He was not a Christian.

Then he had a direct experience with God.

Then he was a great Christian. And it was all because of his "mystical" experience with God. No other reason. Not scripture. Not religious training. Not family background. Not the preaching of the gospel.


So when you say mysticism is undermining Christianity I guess you really need to define what you are talking about. Because mysticism is a direct result of how we have come to have Christianity in the beginning. And it is how we have come to have the scripture that we have.

Mystics are bad.
The ministry of the Holy Spirit is good.
The op,i assume,is cessationist.
Lumping in those that are operating in mysticism with anyone outside of what he thinks is correct.
IOW,Anyone not in his narrow understanding is way off.
It is presumption.