Revelation in Chronological Order?

[speculator]

Jesus sent an angel-messanger to John. The communication from this angel to John was in signs.

The resulting message is the revelation we have wich is not in signs but symbols still to be cleared.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not believe it is in chronological order......and in my view the key to understand it is two or three fold.......

a. Solid back ground in OT
b. Solid grasp of a few chapters in Matthew, Mark, Luke, 1st Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians and 2nd Peter
c. KEY WORD found in chapter 1 verse 3

READETH <---Ana-Ginosko -->TO know AGAIN.......with the iplication of actually HEARING what is being said, this indicates more than a cursory read and or study.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus sent an angel-messanger to John. The communication from this angel to John was in signs. The resulting message is the revelation we have which is not in signs but symbols still to be cleared.

1. You are confusing visions (which John received) with signs (which are signs, wonders, and miracles which were done by Christ and the apostles). Two entirely different things.

2. The book of Revelation is to be read, understood, and applied. There is nothing to be "cleared", although what is written is an overview of primarily things to come. An outline.

3. There are certainly some symbols and metaphors in Revelation, but by and large they are clarified within that book, or through other Scriptures.

4. The book of Revelation is to be generally taken in its plain literal sense, and also in chronological order (with a few exceptions). While many things are beyond human comprehension (such as the demons who are described as an army of locusts), we need to understand that no one today can fully grasp the awfulness of God's judgments which are coming on this earth.

5. This book is meant to be a warning to all those who are not saved, that they need to repent and be converted. That is also why an angel is shown flying and preaching the "everlasting Gospel" to all the inhabitants of the earth, and the two faithful witnesses and prophets who preach and prophesy for 3 1/2 years.

 

[speculator]

I hardly see marriage supper in heaven followed shortly by blood and slain on earth. No marriage with blood.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ in response to the above post, See Gill's Commentary on Deuteronomy 22:17 (and this would be with regard to "the marriage" not "the marriage supper" which is distinct [i.e. not taking place at the same moment/point in time]):

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/deuteronomy/22-17.htm

… not saying this necessarily pertains, but answers specifically to the comment made about "no marriage with blood". Not accurate.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[quoting a portion from Gill's Commentary on Deut22:17, linked, above]

"and they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city; that they might have ocular proof and evidence of the truth of what he said, by having spread before them the sheet stained with the blood of her virginity upon her husband's first congress with her."

[end quoting]


...again, not saying this necessarily pertains, but that this is a fact of what occurs "the first time" (for a virgin woman experiencing intercourse--perhaps you were too "enraptured" to notice this, of your wife? )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

… I only see about 10x that "blood [on the earth]" is referred to in Rev - Rev8:7,8, 11:6, 14:20, 16:3,4,6, 17:6[?], 18:24, 19:2 [19:13 in Heaven]… none of them at the beginning portion of the trib years though [Rev4-5,6, etc]. IOW, I wouldn't say any of these 10 are a result of such a depiction.

 

[iamsoandso]

Yes, that is correct. After Jesus tells them about the destruction of the temple, they ask Him what will be the sign of His coming and the end of the age. To be clear for the sake of anyone reading that may not know, the end of the age is when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, which will take place after God's wrath has been completed, more specifically after the 7th bowl judgment.

The Lord's physical and visual return to end the age is depicted in Matt.24:29-31 when all of the inhabitants of the earth will see Him arriving on the clouds of heaven with great power and glory. This is synonymous with Rev.1:7, with a detailed account being found in Rev.19:11-21.

Well I don't want to distract from the OP but the disciples did not believe that Jesus was going to die and return in a "second coming" at the time of the O.D.,,,(look at the 4 Gospels to see the disciples reaction to his death).

 

[iamsoandso]

The problem is that, not only does he believe it, but is teaching those things and that is the problem. If you're trying to make sense of Revelation and end-time events, then you shouldn't be teaching it.

oh, I wasn't aware he was a preacher teaching anything, I always saw him as just another guy on a internet chat forum like me and you.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not believe it is in chronological order......and in my view the key to understand it is two or three fold.......

a. Solid back ground in OT
b. Solid grasp of a few chapters in Matthew, Mark, Luke, 1st Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians and 2nd Peter
c. KEY WORD found in chapter 1 verse 3

READETH <---Ana-Ginosko -->TO know AGAIN.......with the implication of actually HEARING what is being said, this indicates more than a cursory read and or study.

Fixed.....long day and missed the proverbial 5 min rule.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well I don't want to distract from the OP but the disciples did not believe that Jesus was going to die and return in a "second coming" at the time of the O.D.,,,(look at the 4 Gospels to see the disciples reaction to his death).

Whether the disciples believed that Jesus was going to die and return in a second coming is irrelevant. The fact is that, they asked the Lord what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age and Jesus answered their question, while prior to that event He himself knew that He was going to be crucified and resurrected. In other words, the truth of what He told the disciples was not dependent upon them believing it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

oh, I wasn't aware he was a preacher teaching anything, I always saw him as just another guy on a internet chat forum like me and you.

Well, he is adamant about what he is teaching, which is not in line with scripture. If you're speculating and asking questions, that is one thing. But, if you are adamantly teaching the things that he teaches, then this is false teaching.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Fixed.....long day and missed the proverbial 5 min rule.....

lol, for real... the bane of my posting existence. hah.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

iamsoandso said:

Well I don't want to distract from the OP but the disciples did not believe that Jesus was going to die and return in a "second coming" at the time of the O.D.,,,(look at the 4 Gospels to see the disciples reaction to his death).

Whether the disciples believed that Jesus was going to die and return in a second coming is irrelevant. The fact is that, they asked the Lord what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age and Jesus answered their question, while prior to that event He himself knew that He was going to be crucified and resurrected. In other words, the truth of what He told the disciples was not dependent upon them believing it.

I must agree with you.

Their question(s) in Matthew 24:3 were based on His PREVIOUS talk with them in Matthew 13:24,39,40,49-50 (re: 'the end [singular] of the age [singular]') and what He'd said just before this, in Matthew 12:32 (re: 'the age [singular] to come') which I believe they correctly understood that (Matt12:32) to be referring to what we NOW/CURRENTLY/commonly call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" (i.e. His "reign" [in power]). Sure, they didn't grasp He was going to "die" first, before getting there to that [future] point, but in their minds, "thy coming" [as I see it] meant His coming into His "[earthly] REIGN" (just as had been prophesied).

Their expectation was correct, they just did not understand its TIMING, or what events had to take place in the interim (His death and resurrection / exaltation, etc). It kind of reminds me of how one of the high-up dudes, during Jesus' trials, inadvertently "prophesied TRUTH" in what they'd said (I forget which one, and the details there, though I've posted about it in past posts [it's way past my meal-time and the brain-sludge has kicked in... ])

 

[Ahwatukee]

I must agree with you.

Their question(s) in Matthew 24:3 were based on His PREVIOUS talk with them in Matthew 13:24,39,40,49-50 (re: 'the end [singular] of the age [singular]') and what He'd said just before this, in Matthew 12:32 (re: 'the age [singular] to come') which I believe they correctly understood that (Matt12:32) to be referring to what we NOW/CURRENTLY/commonly call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" (i.e. His "reign" [in power]). Sure, they didn't grasp He was going to "die" first, before getting there to that [future] point, but in their minds, "thy coming" [as I see it] meant His coming into His "[earthly] REIGN" (just as had been prophesied).

Their expectation was correct, they just did not understand its TIMING, or what events had to take place in the interim (His death and resurrection / exaltation, etc). It kind of reminds me of how one of the high-up dudes, during Jesus' trials, inadvertently "prophesied TRUTH" in what they'd said (I forget which one, and the details there, though I've posted about it in past posts [it's way past my meal-time and the brain-sludge has kicked in... ])

I believe the one that you are referring to who "inadvertently prophesied," was Caiaphas who said "You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

 

[iamsoandso]

Whether the disciples believed that Jesus was going to die and return in a second coming is irrelevant. The fact is that, they asked the Lord what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age and Jesus answered their question, while prior to that event He himself knew that He was going to be crucified and resurrected. In other words, the truth of what He told the disciples was not dependent upon them believing it.

lol, or they ask about the only coming they understood at that time and Jesus answered that and told them about the second coming also and so you are only seeing half of the OD. I'll make a deal with you, crossnote and I(and others) have already discussed this and so if crossnote wants to he can explain what they knew and ask. But he keeps asking about the chronology of Revelation from chapter six and that we not stray from the OP so let him choose,,,

 

[Ahwatukee]

lol, or they ask about the only coming they understood at that time and Jesus answered that and told them about the second coming also and so you are only seeing half of the OD. I'll make a deal with you, crossnote and I(and others) have already discussed this and so if crossnote wants to he can explain what they knew and ask. But he keeps asking about the chronology of Revelation from chapter six and that we not stray from the OP so let him choose,,,

I am not only seeing half the OD. As I said, the disciples question was "what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age." The sign of the Lord's coming were the events that He mentioned leading up to His actual return. If you are in inferring that the gathering of the church is mentioned in the OD, it is not.

Just fyi, when I teach this information, I am not just talking off the cuff of my sleeve, as I have researched this information for over 40 years. I don't teach anything unless I am positive of what I am claiming based on all the information on any given Biblical subject. In other words, I just don't go in half cocked.

 

[garee]

Prophesy is used for one purpose.

To prove to the world God is god.

WHich means it MUST be taken literally. Otherwise, it is uselss

Yes, all literature must be taken literally . Its from there that we can search as for silver or gold for our spiritual understanding, when referring to the spiritual Book written the finger of the Spirit of God called the book of prophecy. Other wise its useless and the meaning will be lost in lack of translation.

We are literally instructed that without parables Christ spoke not hiding the nuggets and pearls in the good soil of the word. I would think that helps to preach the gospel

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:


Mark 4:11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

 

[garee]

Revelation is in letters and therefore in symbols and not signs.

The signs are really the means used by the angel messanger to communicate with the brain of Iohn.

Divide symbols form the sign that shows them?

Revelation seems to say it as sent by angels interpreted by the holy Spirt as all prophecy . Revelation revealing the kind of semantics called signified

Remember that seen the temporal as a shadow points to the unseen eternal according to the prescription to find the spiritual understanding in signified language of parables .

Letters form words as signs . 25 miles ahead to Chicago.. 65 mile per hour .

The word Big is a sign of something compared to small. It took letters to show that. Just like it takes letter to show us what God believes according to His faith.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[speculator]

Divide symbols form the sign that shows them?

Revelation seems to say it as sent by angels interpreted by the holy Spirt as all prophecy . Revelation revealing the kind of semantics called signified

Remember that seen the temporal as a shadow points to the unseen eternal according to the prescription to find the spiritual understanding in signified language of parables .

Letters form words as signs . 25 miles ahead to Chicago.. 65 mile per hour .

The word Big is a sign of something compared to small. It took letters to show that. Just like it takes letter to show us what God believes according to His faith.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.