Book On the 2nd Coming of Christ

[dcontroversal]

Scripture says every Christian must give an account if you've lead a rightous live well I guess that won't warrent such a judgement - I have not but I sure know the grace of the sacrifice Christ made that I could be saved my account will bring me to judge myself far worse then anyone else ever would

There are two judgments..one for the saved and one for the lost

ALL the SAVED--->BEMA seat of CHRIST where we will be rewarded for service rendered or a lack thereof.

The LOST -->Great White Throne of GOD where their works will be judged by the book of the law and the book of life

 

[Daz]

There are two judgments..one for the saved and one for the lost

ALL the SAVED--->BEMA seat of CHRIST where we will be rewarded for service rendered or a lack thereof.

The LOST -->Great White Throne of GOD where their works will be judged by the book of the law and the book of life

Scripture states we are saved by grace not by deeds and the theif on the cross next to Christ he told him he will be seated with him by his righthand that was grace not deeds

 

[dcontroversal]

Scripture states we are saved by grace not by deeds and the theif on the cross next to Christ he told him he will be seated with him by his righthand that was grace not deeds

So what....no where did I imply that we are saved by deeds/works.....and salvation is NOT A REWARD...........so what is your point....

 

[Daz]

So what....no where did I imply that we are saved by deeds/works.....and salvation is NOT A REWARD...........so what is your point....

"They will be rewarded for their deeds / lack of - and two seperate judgments one for the saved and one for the lost - in the parble the workers in the field the last ones hired recieved the same payment as those first hired even though they did less work - this is not in keeping with being rewarded for services rendered or lack of by grace equal reward was offered

 

[dcontroversal]

"They will be rewarded for their deeds / lack of - and two seperate judgments one for the saved and one for the lost - in the parble the workers in the field the last ones hired recieved the same payment as those first hired even though they did less work - this is not in keeping with being rewarded for services rendered or lack of by grace equal reward was offered

I suggest you study a while.........the word reward is MITHOS and = pay or wages rendered....the saints are rewarded the LOST judged......get some knowledge...serious.....

 

[justpassinthrough]

Chapter 4
Fact 3
The Consistency of God and How He Deals With His Word!

Let us again name the list of growing facts we must use in order to properly interpret the events that surround the body presence of Christ and our gathering unto him. Notice the following facts:


Our 1st fact is that we are presently in the time period that is known as “The Church Age.”

Our 2nd fact is that the saints are the saved. The word elect is applied unto the saints and is a word that describes our position that we have in Christ.

As we look to the Word of God to establish the third fact in our list we need to understand the consistency of God when it comes to His Word. God is 100% consistent with His use of words. God does not change His Word and we need to understand the infallible, continual and constant stand that God makes upon His Word. Look to the following scripture and learn of God Almighty and His unchangeable stand.

As we in this brief chapter examine one aspect of the nature of God Almighty let us learn to be as consistent with our lives as our God is with who He is. Notice Malachi 3:6 which states, “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” As we break this verse down and examine it in detail we can glean three solid truths which blare loudly and testify of the longsuffering, eternal mercy of God. Notice these three profound truths in this verse out of Malachi.

“For I am the LORD.” The word LORD is in all caps because it is the national name of God and one of the strongest names applied to God. The name LORD is (from) Jehovah and carries the idea of “one that is self-existent and eternal.” For I am the Self-Existent One would be the best way to consider the name of God. The fact that God Himself is the one who has life within Himself proves beyond a doubt that God is Jehovah, the Self-Existent One. This also gives testimony to who is speaking and can be none other than Jesus Christ himself.

“I change not.” This little three word statement testifies to us of the unchanging nature of God Almighty. This word change is only used three times in the Old Testament as found in the Hebrew. This word carries the idea of “to change, alter, repeat, duplicate, disguise” and a few other words of such caliber. God gets it right the first time and what He has settled is settled. History will unfold exactly as God predicted and planned. His ways of dealing with humanity by his Word and through Jesus are forever settled and nothing changes. God’s use of His Truth is forever settled in Heaven and God will not alter, change, update or remove one word from His Truth. He states, “I change not.”

“Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” This statement speaks volumes to the eternal mercy of God. Because of the first two statements in this verse, God can rightfully and truthfully say, “Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” Because God is self-existent and because God does not change who He is, how he (don’t forget to make the list of things to look for right at the end – pronouns referring to God, capitalize) deals with humanity and the use of His Word, he cannot utterly destroy Israel. (Even though) Israel had completely whored away from God and had given themselves over to idol worship. Judah had slipped to spiritual adultery and had mixed the worship of God with idols. In view of the fact that God entered into a relationship covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob he could not utterly consume the Nation of Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Judah. In view of the fact that God must remain true to His truth He can rightfully say, “Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

The next verse we want to investigate is found in Psalm 102:25-27 which states, “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the word of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.” As we digest this scripture let us notice how many truths can be gleaned from these three verses. I encourage you to be honest with the Word of God that we study and that you are open to learning and instruction.

“Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.” The first thing we notice is God has laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of His hands. We know this is true based upon Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3. God created all things. As a matter of fact the Bible teaches that all things were created by Christ Jesus and for Christ Jesus. Notice Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:16, Revelation 4:11 and Revelation 10:6. The power behind creation is of the Father and the element of creation is Jesus Christ. We also know that the Holy Spirit was present and had his part as well. Notice Genesis 1:2.

“They shall perish.” The next thing that we notice about this text is that the earth and the heavens shall perish. This word perish means “to lose ones self and by implication to perish, to be broken, to be undone” and a few other words of like order. We know this to be true because scriptures tell of the destruction that is coming. Included within the destruction that is in the near future are the heavens and the earth being burnt and dissolved by the fiery judgement of God Almighty. Notice 2nd Peter 3:7-12: “The heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.” The earth and the heavens are being used up and are tainted by sin. God must bring forth a new heaven and a new earth so that He can dwell among saved men and women; a place wherein dwelleth righteousness. Notice 2nd Peter 3:13-14.

“But thou shat endure.” The next truth we can glean is that God shall endure. God is from everlasting to everlasting. He is eternal. He has always been and will always be. He has no beginning of life as we do. He is self-existent and shall endure for all eternity. Notice Psalm 90:2, Psalm 41:13, Genesis 21:33, Psalm 93:2, Isaiah 9:6 and Habakkuk 1:12. God shall endure, and for all the critics that have come and gone to the grave and are still in the grave, God’s eternal Word is still being preached by the outcasts of society and lowly preachers.

“Yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed.” The last thing we notice is that the earth and the heavens shall wax old and need to be changed. The text testifies of the ease at which God will tear down and destroy the old while having the ability to remake the new heaven and the new earth. These truths are proven by other texts that are found throughout the Bible. Notice Isaiah 51:6, Hebrews 1:10-12 and Revelation 21:1.

Chapter 4 continued next post

Here the three main facts about what occurs at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3


we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

1. The resurrection of the dead in Christ is first.

the dead in Christ will rise first.

2. The second thing is the rapture.​

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

3. The third thing that takes place at the coming of the Lord is the destruction of the wicked.​

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them...


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8




JPT

 

[Daz]

I suggest you study a while.........the word reward is MITHOS and = pay or wages rendered....the saints are rewarded the LOST judged......get some knowledge...serious.....

Okie dokie will do!

 

[dcontroversal]

Okie dokie will do!

Good, start with a study of the following mate.....

2nd Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what we have done whether good or bad

JUDGEMENT
béma: a step, raised place, by impl. a tribunal
Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: béma
Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma)
Definition: a step, raised place, by implication a tribunal
Usage: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal

RECEIVE
komizó: to bear, carry
Original Word: κομίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: komizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kom-id'-zo)
Definition: to bear, carry
Usage: (a) act: I convey, bring, carry, (b) mid: I receive back, receive what has belonged to myself but has been lost, or else promised but kept back, or: I get what has come to be my own by earning, recover

Revelation 20:11-15 .......and THE DEAD were JUDGED out of THOSE things written in the BOOKS <---plural (LAW)

JUDGED
krinó: to judge, decide
Original Word: κρίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: krinó
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-no)
Definition: to judge, decide
Usage: (a) I judge, whether in a law-court or privately: sometimes with cognate nouns emphasizing the notion of the verb, (b) I decide, I think (it) good.

 

[dcontroversal]

Moving up for those wanting to read.......

 

[dcontroversal]

A good study here that opens the eyes for sure...

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Chapter 3 continued

Jude verse 3 tells us that the system of teaching found in the Bible has been delivered once unto the saints and in verse 14 reminds us that Christ will come with ten thousands of his saints. By careful study of the Word of God and the above scriptures it is evident that during this time frame, which is the church age, that the saints are saved children of God that are identified with Jesus Christ. Not only are they found in Christ having been made pure, but they are also identified with True New Testament Churches. The saints are listed as the faithful brethren in Christ Jesus. The prayers of the saints are stored in vials in heaven before God. Notice Revelation 5:8. It is not wrong to say that the saints are saved, scripturally immersed church members. There are many other scriptures that we could use to prove that the saved are the saints but, for lack of space, we will stick with the above.

The next truth we must consider is the elect and who they are. I submit unto you that the elect and the saints are one and the same. As we look to the word of God we shall see that the elect are those who are in Christ Jesus. As a matter of fact the word elect is only applied to those who have exercised faith in Christ and in doing so they have been marked off as full grown children. Let us look to the scriptures and see what they say about the word elect.

The first thing I want us to notice is that our election which is of God can be known. Paul states in 1st Thessalonians 1:4, “Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.” This statement in Greek literally states, “Knowing brethren, beloved of God, your election.” First, let us examine this word Knowing. This word means “to know, to be aware of, to consider, to have knowledge and to understand.” Paul was aware of and considering the election in Christ that had been applied to the church of the Thessalonians. While knowing and understanding their election which was evident because of the labor of love, their work of faith and patience of hope, Paul was thanking God for them and continually making mention of the church at Thessalonica in his prayers. If Paul can perceive and understand the doctrine of election which has been applied to the members of the Church at Thessalonica then it is only fair to say that we all can know of our election in Christ.

Jesus Christ is the only standard that is found for determining what qualifies as elect. Notice in Isaiah 42:1 that Jesus is claimed as one of God’s elect. “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles.” Note the qualities of being named as one of God’s elect. God delights in his elect, God upholds his elect and God’s Spirit is upon his elect.

As we get into the New Testament we need to consider what God has to say about the elect. First of all we need to understand that our election is based upon the foreknowledge of God. Notice 1st Peter 1:2 which states, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ…” A couple of truths which blare loudly from this text are as follows.

Our election is according to the foreknowledge of God.

Notice 1st Peter 1:20 which tells us that Jesus was foreordained before the casting down of the world to shed his blood and die for humanity.

Our election is based upon the sanctification which the Spirit of God works in us through the sealing act which is described in Ephesians 4:30.

Our election is based upon obedience to the Word of God. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God as found in Romans 10:17

Our election is based upon the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:” as found in 1st Peter 1:18-19.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Jesus is teaching and instructing his disciples which are members of the first True New Testament Church. Notice Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:3-5.

While instructing a group of his disciples Jesus tells them that in the latter days when false Christ’s and false prophets shall come working signs, miracles and wonders that if it was possible, these false workers of the devil would come very close to deceiving the elect, but for the elects’ sake those days would be shortened. Notice Matthew 24:24 and Mark 13:22.

Jesus goes on to teach his disciples, which we will call the first New Testament Church, that he will gather together his elect with the sound of a great trumpet. Notice Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27.

As we continue our quest, let us notice more scriptures that give us more proof of who the elect are. Consider the following:

Luke 18:7 teaches that God shall avenge his own elect.

Romans 8:33 teaches that nobody can lay anything to the charge of God’s elect.

Colossians 3:12-14 teaches us that the elect of God are to have certain identifying traits.

Titus 1:1 teaches that Paul was an apostle based upon the faith of God’s elect. Remember that in Isaiah 41:2 Jesus is identified as one of God’s elect.

So, as we look to the Word of God, it is evident that the word elect is applied to the saved children of God who have obeyed the Word of God and, not only have they been covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, but they also have been sanctified by the Holy Spirit of God; and all this is done according to the plan of God, based upon His foreknowledge and predetermination.

We must always be very careful when we consider the foreknowledge of God that we might not get too Calvinistic in our approach. The Bible makes it clear that salvation is open unto all mankind as found in Titus 2:11, but Jesus will only save and redeem those who have exercised faith in him, which includes a knowledge of and repentance from sin. God the Father pre-determined that everybody who would come to Him through his Son Jesus Christ would be received as full grown children. Every soul that rejects the plan that God has set as the only way shall be cast from God into the lake of fire and shall burn for all eternal ages.

It is obvious that we can conclude that the saints are those men, women and children who have trusted into Jesus Christ as their savior. They are identified with Christ through biblical water immersion and are noted in scripture as members of individual churches. The elect are those who have been born again by the blood of Christ, they are sanctified by the Holy Spirit; they are obedient to the Word of God. The elect and the saints are one and the same. One word describes who we are as saints and the other word describes the cause and working of our sainthood which is our election process. Read carefully 2nd Timothy 2:10 to see what Paul said about the elect and how he endured all things that the elect might obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

The second fact is that the saints are the saved and the word elect is applied to the saints and describes our standing in Christ as “chosen.”

"Jesus will only save and redeem those who have exercised faith in him, which includes a knowledge of and repentance from sin."

The definition of the elect / saints has very little emphasis on repentance, turning from sin and walking righteously.
It is clear the core message of scripture and God, from OT through NT is missing here and reliance on the reader assuming
whatever they believe is being used.

One key issue in revelations is the people after judgements had been done refused to "repent"

20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts
Rev 9

A refusal to do good, to admit sin, to come to God and resolve their hearts is the point of judgement, salvation,
reconciliation with the Father through the cross, yet here it is not touched on. To claim to define facts and miss
this is simply to miss everything.

 

[justpassinthrough]

"Jesus will only save and redeem those who have exercised faith in him, which includes a knowledge of and repentance from sin."

The definition of the elect / saints has very little emphasis on repentance, turning from sin and walking righteously.
It is clear the core message of scripture and God, from OT through NT is missing here and reliance on the reader assuming
whatever they believe is being used.

One key issue in revelations is the people after judgements had been done refused to "repent"

20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts
Rev 9

A refusal to do good, to admit sin, to come to God and resolve their hearts is the point of judgement, salvation,
reconciliation with the Father through the cross, yet here it is not touched on. To claim to define facts and miss
this is simply to miss everything.

So true. The core message of the Gospel is missing from the doctrine of OSAS.


This man made doctrine is being used by the enemy to cause believers to depart from the faith.


At the end of the proverbial Day, when we find ourselves before Him, we see who will be given eternal life.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:6-7




eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;






JPT

 

[DeighAnn]

Chapter 10
Fact 9
The 144,000 Sealed and
Who They Are!

Again let us re-read our list of growing facts that we might keep them in the forefront of our minds to the extent that will allow us to rightly divide the word of God when it comes to biblical interpretations concerning the second coming of Jesus Christ. Be honest with these facts and let God guide you into all truth by the Spirit of Truth.

Our 1st fact is that we are presently in the time frame that is known as “The Church Age.”

Our 2nd fact is that the saints are the saved. The word elect is applied unto the saved and is a word that describes our position that we have in Christ.

Our 3rd fact is that God is 100% consistent. By his very nature he is the only one who is qualified to be called “the same.” He is the same for all eternity. He does not change and has no shadow of turning in him.

Our 4th fact is that the Word of God which is of the Father and of Jesus Christ is the eternal, everlasting, for ever settled word of truth.

Our 5th fact is that tribulation has always been appointed unto the saved while the wrath of God is for the unbelieving lost man. We have been saved from wrath through him, but in the world we will have tribulation.

Our 6th fact is that, except for the message of salvation, the Word of God and the ability to understand the Word of God is unto those who have been born from above by the Holy Spirit of God. Included within these facts is the truth that a lost man is incapable of understanding, knowing and receiving the Word of God, much less being able to perceive and see the Kingdom of God.

Our 7th fact is that there are two resurrections found in the Bible. One is of the blessed, holy people who are the saved and we must note that the second death shall have no power over the born again believer. The second resurrection is of the lost which shall include the verdict of guilt as pronounced by the 5 books of the law shall result in the lost being cast from the presence of God into the lake of fire where they shall burn for all eternal ages.

Our 8th fact is that God has marked off time in days and uses particular days to fulfill his will.

The next truth that we need to establish concerns the 144,000 that are sealed in the book of Revelation. This short chapter will establish who these people are and will include some interesting facts about their characteristics. After we look to the Word of God in Revelation, I want to make some general comments about this group and about some things that must be true in order for this group of Hebrew, Jewish Christians to be sealed by God and labeled as His servants. Notice the following set of scriptures and bend to the truth therein. I will say that I will not list the entire scripture reference that I have given because you can read along in the Bible for yourself, but I will list out the particular verses within the texts that will answer our questions and establish our 9th fact concerning the 144,000 sealed in the book of Revelation.

There have been many groups and religions which have tried to apply the 144,000 number unto themselves. We know that these false religions have tried to use this as a ploy to keep their deceived flocks working and staying true to the false teaching. They try and convince the masses that in order to make the 144,000 you must be this religion or you must do this or that. Whatever! These groups try to say that only the 144,000 are going to make it to heaven and I must say that that is not only ridiculous, but is also sad. To deny that this number in the Book of Revelation belongs to none other than the 12,000 men from each tribe of Israel is blasphemous and contrary to the word of God. Let us notice what the word of God has to say about the 144,000.

The sixth seal as found in the book of Revelation when opened, reveals unto a believer 23 verses of scriptural truth and this is found in Revelation 6:12-7:17. The opening of the seal leads to a huge earthquake which moves every island out of their places. The opening also includes major upheavals and devastating sights in the heavens such as the sun going dark, stars falling from heaven, the moon turning blood red and God rolling the heavens back to reveal the face of the Son of God as He is on His throne in heaven. These sights cause such a fearful panic to overtake the inhabitants of the world that they hide in every nook and cranny they can find. The reason is because the one who sits upon the throne in heaven as God is now viewing them and is fixing to pour out His indignation and fury. He has rolled back the heavens and has pinched out the sun, as it were, between his pinky and thumb by the Word of His power.

It would do us good to note that every man who has been allowed to view the glory of God has fallen down as a dead man and could only stand when strengthened by God Himself. I can tell you that this one on the throne is none other than Jesus Christ himself. As we continue to look in our text, we see four angels come down and hold back the four winds of the earth while a fifth angel prepares to seal the 144,000.

John in Revelation 7:3-4 writes of this fifth angel which is saying, “Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.” After John hears the angel make this statement, he then tells us what he heard about those that were sealed. John states, “And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.” As we look into this scripture we must be honest with the facts that scream and blare loudly from these two verses. If you will notice in the second half of verse 3, the angel calls those to be sealed servants of our God. We must be honest and admit that in order to be called a servant of God a person must be a saved, righteous child of God. The angel then said, “Till we have sealed the servants of our God.” We know this statement must be true because of the statement made by the angel in Revelation 22:9 in response to John falling down to worship at the feet of the angel. Notice what the angel states: “See that thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.” We must conclude that the 144,000 who are to be sealed are on equal terms with John and the two fellow servant angels as found in this book of Revelation. They must be saved children of God who have trusted into Christ because the Bible plainly teaches that “no man” comes unto the Father except through Christ: and having been listed as servants of our God gives even more weight to this fact.

The next truth that we notice in verse 4 is what John records as hearing about the number that is sealed and who they are. The fact that 144,000 have been sealed and that these are Jewish Christian servants of God cannot be disputed on any logical train of thought unless the Word of God is completely ignored. John heard that it was to be 144,000 in number and that the group was to be compiled and sealed from “all the tribes of Israel.” John goes on to list the tribes, and they are as follows: the tribe of Judah, the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, the tribe of Asher, the tribe of Nepthalim, the tribe Manasses, the tribe of Simeon, the tribe of Levi, the tribe of Issachar, the tribe of Zabulon, the tribe of Joseph and finally the tribe of Benjamin. It is obvious by the text that this group of 144,000 is Jewish believers that God has reserved unto himself and have been identified as servants of God which are to be sealed. As we look to the next set of scriptures, we will see a few more facts about this group of 144,000 sealed servants like the fact that they are all men who are sexually pure and have never been defiled with women. Let us look to Revelation chapter 14 to see other truths about this group. We must note that to be sealed means to have a stamp of approval placed upon you by God Almighty. This stamp of approval comes because of the blood of Christ being applied to you eternal soul by simple faith into the completed work of Christ on the cross.

Chapter 10 continued next post

Jacob wrestled all night, named changed to Israel, from what I understand the "Jews" are those who live in Israel or from the tribe of Judah. I don't understand the "these are Jewish Christians" as opposed to the "lost" 10 Northern tribes called "Israel" so I am going to wait till you give me the summary to go on.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jacob wrestled all night, named changed to Israel, from what I understand the "Jews" are those who live in Israel or from the tribe of Judah. I don't understand the "these are Jewish Christians" as opposed to the "lost" 10 Northern tribes called "Israel" so I am going to wait till you give me the summary to go on.

I identified them as Jewish Christians because they are called the first fruits unto God which is the same word applied unto JESUS......might have been better to name them something different...I wrote the book in 2007 and have, through study grown in my knowledge......

 

[DeighAnn]

Chapter 13 finished

Not only do I have questions about what John writes about the saints, but I also have questions about some of what Jesus has to say. Remember that it is these questions which had caused me to begin my search. Notice the questions that come to light when we consider Jesus and what he had to say and still has to say. Remember that the saints in this age are the saved and the word elect is applied unto the saints and describes our standing in Christ. The questions that I have concerning the statements made by Jesus come out of Matthew 24 and deal with the word elect. Don’t forget that the word elect is applied unto the saints and is descriptive of our stance in Christ before God the Father and in view of this truth, I ask the following questions.

Why would Jesus teach that the time frame of the horrendous tribulation period would be shortened for the sake of the elect if the saved elect had already been raptured before the tribulation period? Note Matthew 24:21-22 and Mark 13:19-20.

Why would Jesus write of an event which is described as the gathering of the elect at the great sound of a trumpet by the angels of God which is to take place “after the tribulation of those days” if the elect had already been raptured out? Note Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:27. It would be wise to note that Lazarus was carried by an angel after he had passed on as found in Luke the 16th chapter.

Why does Jesus tell his disciples, which are the first New Testament Church, that they would be delivered up to be killed, afflicted and hated of all “nations” for his name’s sake if they had already been snatched away? Note Matthew 24:9, Luke 21:12, 16-17 and Mark 13:12-13.

Why does Jesus tell his first church that when “they” had seen all of the events as described in Matthew chapter 24 take place, then they would know that that time is near, even at the doors, if the saved had been raptured already? Note Matthew 24:32-33 and Luke 21:28.

You can get comparative scriptures in the books of Luke and Mark which give further insight into these questions.

I also have a few questions that come from Paul’s writings which also contradict the belief that Christ can come at any minute. Again I want to remind the reader that it is these questions which, in the beginning, caused me to seek for the answers. I will say, as a teacher, that all of these questions make complete sense when they are answered rightfully from the word of God. Notice the questions that come to mind when we consider the testimony of Paul the Apostle who was to write over one half of the New Testament.

Paul told the Thessalonian Church that they should not be shaken about the coming of the Lord and by our “gathering together” unto him because they knew that the day of the Lord would not come until after the falling away and the revealing of the man of sin. Notice 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3. Why would Paul tell this church that the man of sin would be revealed before the second coming of Christ if the saved were to be raptured before the events of Revelation, which includes the appearance of the Anti-Christ, who is the man of sin?

Paul tells the Thessalonian Church that the rapture would be preceded by and come in a time of unprecedented peace and safety. Notice 1st Thessalonians 5:1-3. The context of these three verses is found in chapter 4:13-18 and plainly teaches about the second coming of Christ and the event which has been labeled by humanity as the rapture. My question is why would Paul teach the Thessalonian Church that the resurrection of the dead and the changing of those who are alive would come after a time frame of peace and safety which is followed by destruction if the saved had already been raptured out? Note that the only place where peace is found followed by destruction and misery is the opening of the first four seals in Revelation chapter 6.

Why would Paul teach the Corinthian church that the rapture would occur at the “last” trump if the saved are raptured before the events of the book of Revelation? Last means “last” and we must take note that the last trump found is the seventh trump as found in the book of Revelation chapter 11.

I have given you numerous questions which I have encountered that weigh heavy against the teaching that Christ can come at any minute. In the very minimum, these questions ought to drive the reader to investigate further the word of God. I could give many other questions, but I cannot at this time because these questions would give away some truths before I want to give them and these truths must come in a particular order to allow the reader to absorb to the fullest the truths that are laid bare before us by the word of God.

Again, I encourage you to consider the facts that we are using as our rule in order that we might come to correct conclusions. Paul is writing to churches in these letters and we must consider that this instruction is to a New Testament church. We will dig into the above scriptures in Corinthians and Thessalonians as we unfold the answers in the following chapters. How could the statements and truths above be made to true New Testament churches if those saved members that make up those churches are raptured and gone? Lest we forget, these church letters are written and given unto all true churches that would come down through the ages: and we must conclude that this instruction is given in particular unto the churches that are in existence during the time frame which is indicative of the “end times.”

As we begin to unfold the answers in the following chapters, I suggest that the reader pray diligently and seek the God of heaven through his Word. Be honest with what we find and embrace the truths that shall set you free from the world’s religion, as well as the “fables and lies” which have been spread for the last couple of centuries.

I can't begin to tell you how worried I was you were going to back that theory. The main reason being how well you were laying everything out so clear and precise. My heart hurts so bad when I am confronted with souls who are so deceived, not because of a lack of love, but from lack of a good preacher/teacher. I have had many tell me to just let it alone but I can't because I adhere to the saying "The only thing it takes for evil to prevail is for the good to do nothing", and if the evil are going to keep pushing this false doctrine, then where ever I can, I am going to put some truth out along side it. They always seem to gang up two or three against me but it is never really about them that I put out the questions. Just had to stop for a moment of appreciation. Glory to God and May He keep on Blessing You.

 

[dcontroversal]

I can't begin to tell you how worried I was you were going to back that theory. The main reason being how well you were laying everything out so clear and precise. My heart hurts so bad when I am confronted with souls who are so deceived, not because of a lack of love, but from lack of a good preacher/teacher. I have had many tell me to just let it alone but I can't because I adhere to the saying "The only thing it takes for evil to prevail is for the good to do nothing", and if the evil are going to keep pushing this false doctrine, then where ever I can, I am going to put some truth out along side it. They always seem to gang up two or three against me but it is never really about them that I put out the questions. Just had to stop for a moment of appreciation. Glory to God and May He keep on Blessing You.

I was raised in an Imminent return Pre trib rapture church and defended it dogmatically because it was what I was always taught....with only a few verses I might add.....but when I went to seminary and had to study through the bible twice a year and then had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians I began to see things that did not jive with that belief.....just for the record....I am POST Great TRIB PRE WRATH ingathering at the 7th trump.......haha I spoiled it for you......that is the only view that jives with ONE coming....

was
is
IS TO COME <---1 coming....all things must jive with one coming IMV

 

[blue_ladybug]

So far, I've only copy pasted chapters 1 and 2.. lol

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I identified them as Jewish Christians because they are called the first fruits unto God which is the same word applied unto JESUS......might have been better to name them something different...I wrote the book in 2007 and have, through study grown in my knowledge......

Who do you believe James 1:18's "US [/WE (depending on version)]" refers to (...provided you don't think it refers to either "Jesus" or "the 144,000" [maybe you do, though?]), where it says,

"having counselled [or, of His own will], He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain [G5100 (or, a kind) of the] first-fruit of His creatures [or, of His creation]."

['a CERTAIN [G5100] [of the] firstfruit' would mean a particular one, of several distinct 'harvests,' as I see there to be in Scripture (not to mention, in nature)]

https://biblehub.com/text/james/1-18.htm




[note: I believe that 2Th2:13 may also contain the word "firstfruit," as shown in some versions ['aparche' vs 'ap arche' in the Greek], but it's not likely you would agree with that, if you believe the KJV is the only accurate version. (there, the above question would be, concerning the "YOU" in this verse)]

 

[DeighAnn]

Who do you believe James 1:18's "US [/WE (depending on version)]" refers to (...provided you don't think it refers to either "Jesus" or "the 144,000" [maybe you do, though?]), where it says,

"having counselled [or, of His own will], He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain [G5100 (or, a kind) of the] first-fruit of His creatures [or, of His creation]."

['a CERTAIN [G5100] [of the] firstfruit' would mean a particular one, of several distinct 'harvests,' as I see there to be in Scripture (not to mention, in nature)]

https://biblehub.com/text/james/1-18.htm




[note: I believe that 2Th2:13 may also contain the word "firstfruit," as shown in some versions ['aparche' vs 'ap arche' in the Greek], but it's not likely you would agree with that, if you believe the KJV is the only accurate version. (there, the above question would be, concerning the "YOU" in this verse)]

What is the question?

 

[DeighAnn]

Who do you believe James 1:18's "US [/WE (depending on version)]" refers to (...provided you don't think it refers to either "Jesus" or "the 144,000" [maybe you do, though?]), where it says,

"having counselled [or, of His own will], He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain [G5100 (or, a kind) of the] first-fruit of His creatures [or, of His creation]."

['a CERTAIN [G5100] [of the] firstfruit' would mean a particular one, of several distinct 'harvests,' as I see there to be in Scripture (not to mention, in nature)]

https://biblehub.com/text/james/1-18.htm




[note: I believe that 2Th2:13 may also contain the word "firstfruit," as shown in some versions ['aparche' vs 'ap arche' in the Greek], but it's not likely you would agree with that, if you believe the KJV is the only accurate version. (there, the above question would be, concerning the "YOU" in this verse)]

thank you