The Days of the Lord, The comings of Christ, The Returning's of Jesus, The Advents, The Descending's of our Lord, ever heard of them?

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 16, 2019

"The Day of the Lord" [a TIME PERIOD] (ITS arrival), not the arrival of Jesus Himself (in His personal presence to the earth).

The "time period" which involves "the man of sin" and ALL he will DO *IN IT* (throughout the "dark" portion OF it [i.e. the 7 yrs]).

DeighAnn said:

The word here for "travail" is the singular form of the word Jesus used in Matthew 24:4-8 / Mark 13:5-8 [the "pangs" also described in Lk21:8-11]; and the one [birth PANG] that comes "UPON" a woman with child is the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]"... it's NOT that the time period referred to in this 1Th5:2-3 consists of ONLY ONE "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" but that its ARRIVAL is INITIATED by the FIRST ONE (of MANY MORE that will FOLLOW ON from that point).

It is the equivalent of [what Jesus said in] Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" (i.e. the "whose coming/arrival/advent/presence/parousia" of the man of sin, just like 2Th2:7b-8a, 9a refers to, in the same way [i.e. in how that relates time-wise with "the day of the Lord" (both passages!)--he (the man of sin) is present WHEN the DOTL is present!])

DeighAnn · Jun 16, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

It is not about the color. It is about mixing Truths and Untruths. And I may just be tired. I am sorry. I will try reading it tomorrow when I am in a better state of mind. Have a good night.

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Read 1Thess5:9-10 (comparing the words of v.10 with verse 6 of that passage), where it says (to "the Church which is His body"):

"9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation [an eschatological 'salvation,' per the overall context of Thess] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 -same word as in v.6!] or we might sleep G2518 - same word as in v.6! (not speaking of DEATH here, as the prev chpt was, with a DIFF word!]), we may live together with [G4862 - UNIONED-with/INDENTIFIED-with] Him."

[this is distinct from what is said regarding "the 10 Virgins," for example, which "with [G3326 - accompanying]" word is not speaking of the same thing (as the above), where they will enter the earthly MK age/wedding FEAST/SUPPER (not "the MARRIAGE" itself--He is not MARRYING 10 Virgins, nor even FIVE!)--He will be "RETURNING" at that point as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom! (Rev19:7 aorist) for the Rev19:9 earthly wedding FEAST/SUPPER (the MK age); Lk12:36-37,38,40]

Jesus said at the last supper,the feast is in heaven.
Several things make a postrib rapture impossible

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

DeighAnn said:

Those are the martyrs from the slaughter by antichrist.
They are killed right away and finalize the church age.
Next comes jacobs trouble. God focuses on the jews.
They are gathered in rev 14,before the final wrath period begins.
Unlike awatukee ,i do not see ANY postrib resurrection of saints. Rev 20 is merely mentioning those martyrs killed earlier,not establishing WHEN thay are resurrected.
They could not possibly be "the FIRST resurrection" only part of the first.
It says first,in contrast to,the second death.
NOT "the first resurrection"

Adstar · Jun 16, 2019

cv5 said:

No.. A rapture on the day of the second coming of Jesus Christ is what fits scripture..

DeighAnn · Jun 16, 2019

We do not agree on anything. And in no certain order.
I believe Jesus returns once more You believe twice.
I believe Jesus returns after Satan, You believe before and after
I believe the time was shortened. You believe it remains the same
I believe ALL are changed. You believe only "some"
I believe God will leave us here. You believe He will take us away.
I believe Satan comes to be worshipped as God, bringing a lie of peace and safety. You believe it will be hell and wrath on earth.
I believe it is a spiritual war. You believe it is a physical war.
I believe we suit up with armor for a war. You believe we suit up with armor to flee
I believe to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. You believe we go to a hole in the ground until Jesus returns
I believe it is Satans Tribulation. You believe it is Gods Wrath.
I believe you will be deceived. You believe I will be punished
I believe we could easily list way more. I believe we can see this is futile.
But we bot know, TRUTH is coming to us all.

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

Adstar said:

Mat 25 and rev 14 have Jesus coming and gathering but pulling up short of where they are.
They come to him and both leave.
Postrib doctrine is poorly thought out.

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

DeighAnn said:

""I believe Jesus returns once more You believe twice""

Rev 14 COMPLETELY destroys that.
I can post it for you.
But you got a heavy investment outside the bible.
That is WHY you wont read it.

You dont get it.
Postrib rapture can ONLY EXIST outside my verses.
You must leave out my verses.
....and you do.
In fact there is not one verse pointing to a postrib rapture
Not one

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

Adstar said:

Post a verse pointing to it.
Just one verse.
I will wait

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

Absolutely said:

Mat 24 has one taken,one left.
The rapture.
That concept of the ones taken up to the clouds,then doing a u turn is nowhere in Gods plan.
Totally out of step.
No purpose or even sanity in it. No examples either.
The uturn is a glitch in doctrine. A patch job.
Jesus used Job and Noah as prejudgement models.
NO UTURN,AND BOTH PREJUDGEMENT DYNAMICS.
Postribs have a post judgement removal with uturn .
Jesus went out of his way to give us a pattern and red flags against a notion of a post trib rapture.
That postrib doctrine is toast.
NOTHING,POINTS TO IT.
ZERO

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 16, 2019

DeighAnn said:

I believe, biblically-speaking, the word "return" is used ONLY of His Second Coming to the earth [i.e. ONCE!] (not with regard to our Rapture "in the air"); Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [i.e. as ALREADY-WED!] (THEN the meal [the MK age]); Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" (when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "likewise... thou over 5" [cities being located on the earth])

Ditto what I said above (re: "RETURN")

I believe the context of the "we" ["ALL"] in question speaks of "we" / "the Church which is His body" [ALL of US] in the passage where Paul is speaking of "Behold, I show you a mystery" (not referring to that which the OT saints already WELL-KNEW, like Martha in John 11, Daniel in Daniel 12:13, and Job in Job 19:25-27, etc

)

I believe Paul, some 10 times in the Thessalonians epistles, refers to our Rapture ["in the air"--so no, not remaining "on the earth," but rather will be returning "WITH [G4862] Him" when He does--the question is, "when" our Rapture takes place IN RELATION TO "the DOTL" (and its actual definition [as revealed in OT Scriptures along with its correlating phrase "IN THAT DAY," not a made up one, that has no relation to its OT prophecies regarding it])]

I believe the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" is at the same moment as the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord [time period]" (2Th2:2-3,7b-8a,9a; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5 / =SEAL #1, at the START of the 7 yrs [Dan9:27(26)], etc)

Where SEAL #1 he "goes forth conquering and to conquer," I don't believe it is a "physical war," but I do believe that the SEAL #2 wars [parallel Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8] include the Gog-Magog War, which shows some "physical war" effects

I believe "the Church which is His body" (ambassadors here presently) will be "called home" before it starts; that we already are suited up [NOW, in "this present age"] during our [its] entire existence on the earth [from the first century] we are not waiting for a certain specific future limited time period, to "suit up for [spiritual] war"; and that the only people who will "FLEE" DURING the trib, are "they which be in Judaea" (mid-trib) and all others DURING the trib years who will heed the instruction of Lk21:36 (which I do not believe to be a "rapture" reference, but Trib-saints' instruction, so that they will in the end be able to "stand before the Son of man" at His "return" to the earth [FOR their earthly MK entrance]).

I too believe to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (for the believer), but that this is distinct from "resurrection/rapture" (which involves actual resurrected/glorified/changed bodies).

I gave reasons earlier what I believe that when Jesus "STANDS to JUDGE" (Rev5) that everything that follows (opening the first SEAL) is God's wrath [so were some things in the 70ad section of the Olivet Discourse, though, per Lk21:23,20/Matt22:7 "wrath/wroth"]; and that 2Th2:7b-8a parallels the wording in Lamentations 2:3-4 (amidst that passage's "wrath" words)

I do not believe you will be "punished" (if you are in Christ / saved / a believer/saint), I said that in my post about 1Th5, if you'll notice; plz see that post again

Have a great day. Nice talking with you.

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

DeighAnn said:

""I believe God will leave us here. You believe He will take us away.""
Ok,what turns all those items on a dime is the gathering of the bride.
The rapture is one thing,and one thing ONLY.
THE GATHERING OF THE BRIDE.
Totally separate from all the "beliefs" you listed.
The greatest event that will soon happen is the gathering of the bride.
It is the next apex. Heaven and Jesus are preoccupied in anticipation.
Jesus "with much desire have i desired to eat this passover with you"
That passover meal was a vivid picture of the betrothal in the jewish wedding

Once you get that component of bride and groom,it totally changes end times view.
You will never see it the same.
It is heavens view.
Every component you listed is outside of the apex of the rapture of the bride.
You see you,the church,as the subject.
The subject heaven sees is the groom
Gathering his bride.
Leave out the bride and groom,and leave out the heartbeat of what will really happen.
Check out as many postrib models as you like.
NONE OF THEM refer to the biggest event yet to happen. (The groom gathering the bride)
Without exception , the subject of their study is 3 part
Man

Judgement/tribulation/wrath...on earth

And the devil,ac,and his handiwork with believers running from cave to cave.

Man centered. All of them
They wait for a man on a horse.
The amazing part is;
1) tons of verses are ignored
2) they have no red flags about my verses.
3) the doctrine is without examples,but no ,even DEFIES Jesus' vivid examples.
4) they NEVER Incorporate the heart of end times...the bride and groom.
A good start is the book of ruth.
The gentile bride

Adstar · Jun 16, 2019

Absolutely said:

Matthew 24 is the second coming of Christ.. And thats when the trumpet will sound at his coming and we who are alive and remain will be caught up to be with Him forever.. Along with the dead who will rise first.. The dead saints are gathered by the Angels in Matthew 24..

This is the rapture::

1 Corinthians 15: KJV
51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

This follows the sequence of events revealed in Matthew 24 which details the return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation..

Matthew 24: KJV
29 "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The same event in the other Gospels tell the Saints to Look up during these times and know that our redemption draws near.. That means Saints shall be on earth during those times not already raptured and in heaven..

Luke 21: KJV
25 "¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; {26} Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. {27} And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. {28} And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

Clearly the rapture happens on the day of the second coming of Christ Jesus.. This trumpet will be the last trumpet when the mystery revealed by Paul will be made manifest to the entire world because they will all see Jesus coming in the clouds and they will then know who the LORD is..

Revelation 10: KJV
7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Absolutely · Jun 16, 2019

Adstar said:

Ok,first off lets see if a postrib rapture is even possible.
Jesus used lot and noah as examples of a pre judgement coming.
So that is confusion right there.
You guys have the church never reaching heaven and doing a uturn in the air back to earth.
Jesus placed dwellings , a table,and the church(bride) in heaven at the last supper,and rev 19. So no way is there some u turn. Mat 24 and 25,as well as rev 14 ALL HAVE GATHERINGS, nowhere is there a uturn. Jesus used noah and lot as gatherings with no uturn.
Rev 14 has a gathering DURING the gt BY JESUS (a rapture)
That would make 1 thes 4 a lie since it says the living CAN NOT PRECEDE the dead.
Rev 14 alone PROHIBITS a postrib rapture.
About all you can do is re examine your timeline.
Also if trumpets sounding is your main theme,what do you do about Jesus talking on the isle of patmos to John and it sounded like a trumpet?
You seem to frame 7 trumpets as a unique one time happening.
Yet Jesus sounds like a trumpet at will.
Are you aware that the trumpets FINISH sounding BEFORE the end of the gt?
Way before the end.

So postrib rapture being impossible,it is time to go on to "what must be".

DeighAnn · Jun 18, 2019

Absolutely said:

Well, considering Jesus is DESCENDING, it would seem that it is a description of the change from terrestrial to celestial. But not only is there NO UTURN there is also NO "ON TO HEAVEN" for 7. (yeah, yeah, yeah, not appointed to wrath. Where is it said that "Rapture" is how God solves the "not appointed to wrath"? Pretty sure the Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego event should open eyes on a bit of His capability.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
DO you see an order of events here? AFTER THE TRIBULATION, the Son coming with power and great glory, gather together HIS ELECT

The 2nd Advent, or coming of our Lord Jesus Christ is Post Tribulation. as Jesus descending, AFTER the man of sin IS revealed, Commencing the Lords Day when we are changed into our celestial bodies, and receive our immortality, the 1st resurrection and for the next 1000 years, also called the Millennial Reign, while Satan is bound, we are to reign and be Priests with Christ. There is NO leaving earth to go anywhere, He is coming here, The Throne is coming here. The lake of fire is here. The New City is here. HERE, IS GODS FAVORITE SPOT IN THE UNIVERSE and heaven is where ever God is.

Just like Noah made it THROUGH the flood, here ON EARTH, SO DO WE make it through the Tribulation of Satan, here on earth.
Just like Lot was led out of harms way, STAYING here on earth, so will we.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

WHO is going to be revealed? JESUS CHRIST. To WHOM? His SERVANTS. Who are His servants? The Church.
Who is it sent to? .... What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches also known as the BODY OF CHRIST
WHAT FOR? to shew THEM what is coming.
WHY? because they are going through it.
Are they appointed to wrath? No.
Tribulation? Yes.
Are we told to put on armor? is it to withstand the fiery darts of Satan? Are we told some will have 10 day trials?

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What is the patience of the Saints?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRIBULATION AND WRATH?

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The Days of the Lord, The comings of Christ, The Returning's of Jesus, The Advents, The Descending's of our Lord, ever heard of them?

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy

Absolutely

Banned

Absolutely

Banned

Adstar

Senior Member

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy

Absolutely

Banned

Absolutely

Banned

Absolutely

Banned

Absolutely

Banned

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member

Absolutely

Banned

Adstar

Senior Member

Absolutely

Banned

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy