He killed his wife and children, can he really be forgiven

[Vega1]

Only if he repents and accepts Jesus Christ as his savior, he can be forgiven and redeemed if he chooses to do so.

 

[notuptome]

The thing to keep in perspective is that in the sight of God we are all equally sinful and deserve only eternal condemnation. Christ died to atone for the sins of all men even those who have done unspeakable things. While it is an affront to our sensibilities Gods grace exceeds our finite ability to forgive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dillon93]

This is a very interesting question. The problem I have is this: If this man is NOT forgiven (does not change or repent TRULY), then does he go to the same place that an atheist goes to ... or any non-Christian? Do they both get the same punishment or is he more evil than an atheist or any other sinner? Or is his sin (killing 4 people (wife, two kids and an unborn child) and the evil things he did after that ... is that worse?

God is the judge of that. I believe there are varying degrees of punishment in the lake of fire. Again, we are also told not to wonder who will go to Heaven or Hell as it is insulting to the power and glory of Christ. I used to worship satan and God chose me, He is capable of anything. All things are indeed possible with Jesus 🙏🙌😇

 

[SimpleGardner]

Okay, Without even reading the article, I would say we need to consider the living, the victims family. The LAW spoke of cities of refuge for accidental killing to protect the one who accidentally killed someone from the "Avenger of Blood" or the family member designated to avenge the death. If however the death was a "Murder", the murderer was to be executed to settle the blood of the victims family and to rid soceity of the menace. God would deal with the murderer later. He alone can condemn. We can only judge. If the Judgement is death this is not condemnation of the spirit, just the body. Much of the law is focused on restitution. You can never restore a family of a member that has been murdered. The only way to settle the blood issue is the death of the murderer. Try living with a murdered family member where the malicious murderer is finally released and living the good life. That situation in untenable. God knows us, knows that ,and insists it not be permitted. If you look at the OT Law it is hard to find any mention of prisons at all. Only Pagan societies have them. They are money makers and they eliminate the possibility of stirring the masses against their criminal overlords.

Most people don't know that the USA founding documents demand that anyone found tampering with or working outside the Constitution were to be taken to the nearest intersection and hanged by the neck!

Tolerence is the spirit of the day....Where did that come from?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Yes He can be forgiven if he acknowledges his sins and believes Jesus and trusts in the Atonement Jesus secured for His forgiveness..

When you say acknowledge his sin do you mean the one time repenting when we receive salvation or did you mean continuous repenting for forgiveness every time we are aware that we sinned In order to maintain our salvation.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

God is the judge of that. I believe there are varying degrees of punishment in the lake of fire. Again, we are also told not to wonder who will go to Heaven or Hell as it is insulting to the power and glory of Christ. I used to worship satan and God chose me, He is capable of anything. All things are indeed possible with Jesus 🙏🙌😇

I was wondering why you believe there Is varying degrees of punishment In the lake of fire,nevertheless I’m glad you are not worshipping the devil anymore.

 

[Adstar]

When you say acknowledge his sin do you mean the one time repenting when we receive salvation or did you mean continuous repenting for forgiveness every time we are aware that we sinned In order to maintain our salvation.

If one believes God and His Holy Spirit causes them to know they have transgressed against Gods will then they will Automatically acknowledge their action was sin.. It does not take much effort to think,, hey i have sinned.. Once a person just thinks they have sinned then they have automatically acknowledged they have sinned..

I think i know where your trying to move this conversation..

That to acknowledge ones sins is a Works salvation doctrine..

But if the Holy Spirit of God is working upon us and moving us to know we have sinned then that Work has been done by the Holy Spirit..

 

[Leastamongmany]

https://www.desiringgod.org/intervi...axB5aVy8vsHMeffUZtTxex-0kAhtevLzI4vLBYRhwqZo4

Thought this was interesting although it may raise a few eyebrows.
It’s also useful in respect of the recent forgiveness threads.
Although even where grace abounds, there are still consequences for actions.

Only blasphemy of the Holy Ghost can never be forgiven God hates the sin,not the sinner! Oh the POWER of HIS LOVE!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I think i know where your trying to move this conversation..

That to acknowledge ones sins is a Works salvation doctrine..

To acknowledge that we sinned Is good when we are In the process of renewing our minds because this shows that the next time you/me will be ready and not do the wrong thing while In the process of renewing our minds and

this Is called continued sanctification but It Is a works mentality If we think that by acknowledging a sin that we have not overcome yet decides whether we are still saved or not.

 

[Leastamongmany]

To acknowledge that we sinned Is good when we are In the process of renewing our minds because this shows that the next time you/me will be ready and not do the wrong thing while In the process of renewing our minds and

this Is called continued sanctification but It Is a works mentality If we think that by acknowledging a sin that we have not overcome yet decides whether we are still saved or not.

I call it progressive sanctification..we have to be obedient to the word hearers and doers. I call positional sanctification as at the moment of our redeemption ee are perfect in Gids eye b/c we put on Jesus' righteousness. He IS perfect. He said " Father sanctify them by your word, your word is TRUTH!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I call it progressive sanctification..we have to be obedient to the word hearers and doers. I call positional sanctification as at the moment of our redeemption ee are perfect in Gids eye b/c we put on Jesus' righteousness. He IS perfect. He said " Father sanctify them by your word, your word is TRUTH!

Yes by continuous sanctification or progressive sanctification or renewing the mind they are the same.

When you say positional sanctification does that mean the same as being obedient to faith which means to believe the WORD of GOD after hearing It when we first get saved?🙂

 

[Oncefallen]

Yes by continuous sanctification or progressive sanctification or renewing the mind they are the same.

When you say positional sanctification does that mean the same as being obedient to faith which means to believe the WORD of GOD after hearing It when we first get saved?🙂

My Pastor likes to describe sanctification as "already, not yet".

Positionally ( the way God views us through the blood of Christ) we are sanctified (completely holy) whereas in reality we are continually being sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives but will never be fully sanctified this side of the grave.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

https://www.desiringgod.org/intervi...axB5aVy8vsHMeffUZtTxex-0kAhtevLzI4vLBYRhwqZo4

Thought this was interesting although it may raise a few eyebrows.
It’s also useful in respect of the recent forgiveness threads.
Although even where grace abounds, there are still consequences for actions.

To kill your wife, your own young children you have to be insane and overcome with something seriously wrong.
So without getting to know the guy, it is best left well alone. Such individuals have a definite detachment from
reality, possibly with psychopathic tendencies. So any "conversion" etc. would need to be regarded with scepticism
as a possible way to excuse ones behaviour, rather than coming to see the tragedy of what has taken place.

Though this might sound brutal, the death penalty seems appropriate, where the individual can make their peace
with God, but they are removed from society, seems true justice.

My take on forgiveness, is how could anyone trust such an individual when they have betrayed those who truly
love them and look for total security and protection from them, which they have completely betrayed.

And in truth this behaviour is very rare because it is so against our instincts and biology, as funnily enough
any disposition to follow this behaviour tends to die out, because all the children never grow up to produce their
own kids.

So I personally could forgive such an insane person, but I would not trust them, ever again.

 

[Leastamongmany]

My Pastor likes to describe sanctification as "already, not yet".

Positionally ( the way God views us through the blood of Christ) we are sanctified (completely holy) whereas in reality we are continually being sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives but will never be fully sanctified this side of the grave.

Amen! You said it like I meant it! Thank you🌹

 

[JohnRH]

https://www.desiringgod.org/intervi...axB5aVy8vsHMeffUZtTxex-0kAhtevLzI4vLBYRhwqZo4

Thought this was interesting although it may raise a few eyebrows.
It’s also useful in respect of the recent forgiveness threads.
Although even where grace abounds, there are still consequences for actions.

If he was saved before he committed these murders, then he was saved while committing them and after committing them. He will always be saved; his past, present, and future sins are all forgiven.

If he's not saved (in which case he never was saved), he can still be saved as long as the Holy Spirit, who strives with everyone during season(s) of their lifetime, is still striving with him or will yet strive with him before he dies.