is bible the word of God

[FollowHisSteps]

If you present these kind of explanations in court of law, on different issues in life Judge will throw them out.But for Jesus who is much bigger you accept what you want and reject what you want.That is fine.

There is a simple point here.
Followers of Jesus care about exactly what He said and meant, each word.
So you have Jesus's words on the cross, "My God, My God why have you forsaken me"

This was referring to the Psalm 22, which points exactly to the suffering Jesus was enduring.

Now this preciseness has been discussed throughout church history.
It appears in Islam, no such preciseness exists.

This is why Islam is unfortunately a propoganda machine which says things that do not have
to relate to being true, just that they praise Islam.

It takes time to realise the simple dishonesty that is being done, at a fundamental level.
The islamic moral code is to say everything positive about Islam and denegrate everything else.

The idea that Islam could be subservient to any degree over another faith is blasphemy.

This is precisely why truth and Islam cannot live side by side. Islam dies when you believe in truth.
A simple example of this is looking at Muhammed as a sincere but deluded man, who had visions, or
fits in which he claimed to get divine revelations.

The problem comes when these "divine" revelations follow other folk stories or tales held in other
books of the period which are not regarded even as true but parables, yet in the Koran they take on
the form of literal history. It is at this point one has to begin to get cynical and critical of Muhammed
authority or status. If he claimed to speak on behalf of the Lord of Hosts, the creator of the universe,
as laid out in the bible, and yet does not repeat the core message of love, Muhammed is not speaking
the truth. It is this simple.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Muslims love n respect jesus more than christians.

This is a classic muslim statement.
Christians, those who follow Jesus, love Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
The whole faith is to love God with everything they are and to love their neighbour as themselves.

Now if you can love Jesus more than this, I would like to see it.
But in truth your statement just declares you neither understand Jesus or following Him.

And the real problem is we are not to boast about our walk, but rather walk it.
It is for God to judge us, and we are to serve and help one another.

 

[posthuman]

Huh? Why else would God destroy the place? The people had become raving homosexuals, so were justly destroyed. That's the plain teaching of the bible, and even where we get the word Sodomite from.

Why hasn't fire and brimstone fallen down and wiped out San Francisco?

Ezekiel 16:49-50
Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw [fit.]

Why doesn't Ezekiel say the reason they were obliterated was for being gay?

 

[posthuman]

Why hasn't fire and brimstone fallen down and wiped out San Francisco?

Ezekiel 16:49-50
Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw [fit.]

Why doesn't Ezekiel say the reason they were obliterated was for being gay?

Judges 19 is very obviously correlated with the account of Sodom -

Judges 19:30
And so it was that all who saw it said, "No such deed has been done or seen from the day that the children of Israel came up from the land of Egypt until this day. Consider it, confer, and speak up!"

So what does this mean? Do you imagine there had never been a rape & murder in all of Israel up to this time? People who saw this woman's body knew immediately by seeing it that a great evil was taking place. Do you imagine that by seeing a raped and murdered woman they recognized their were homosexual men in the land?

I am fully convinced there was something much more than that going on - not that none of that was also present, but God says this was extraordinary wickedness, such as was never seen anywhere.

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

Why hasn't fire and brimstone fallen down and wiped out San Francisco?

Ezekiel 16:49-50
Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw [fit.]

Why doesn't Ezekiel say the reason they were obliterated was for being gay?

"Committed abomination"? What can be more abominable than sodomy? And do you think God smote Sodom the instant the Sodomites took power? No, He is patient. Yet when the filthy Sodomites tried to rape the angels, and turned down natural relations for unnatural ones, the time for their judgement had come.

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

Judges 19 is very obviously correlated with the account of Sodom -

Judges 19:30
And so it was that all who saw it said, "No such deed has been done or seen from the day that the children of Israel came up from the land of Egypt until this day. Consider it, confer, and speak up!"

So what does this mean? Do you imagine there had never been a rape & murder in all of Israel up to this time? People who saw this woman's body knew immediately by seeing it that a great evil was taking place. Do you imagine that by seeing a raped and murdered woman they recognized their were homosexual men in the land?

I am fully convinced there was something much more than that going on - not that none of that was also present, but God says this was extraordinary wickedness, such as was never seen anywhere.

I'm not sure. Maybe she was raped by sodomites? So unlike ordinary rapists, using force as a means to satisfy a natural desire, these men had an unnatural desire to sodomise the woman to death?

 

[Adstar]

Why hasn't fire and brimstone fallen down and wiped out San Francisco?

Ezekiel 16:49-50
Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw [fit.]

Why doesn't Ezekiel say the reason they were obliterated was for being gay?

1) Because san-Francisco have not reached the level of depravity that Sodom and Gomorrah had reached.. Remember when Abraham was walking with the LORD on the Road Genesis 18 and Abraham was asking Him how many "'righteous" people would be needed for the LORD not to destroy Sodom? Abraham got down to 10 people and the LORD said He would not destroy Sodom if 10 righteous people where living there.. So are there more then 10 true Christians in San-Francisco? There must be..

2) Why does Ezekiel need to restate what everyone who had knowledge of the scriptures already knew from the book of Genesis..

 

[posthuman]

"Committed abomination"? What can be more abominable than sodomy? And do you think God smote Sodom the instant the Sodomites took power? No, He is patient. Yet when the filthy Sodomites tried to rape the angels, and turned down natural relations for unnatural ones, the time for their judgement had come.

The whole reason for the angels were there was to destroy the whole plain; it wasn't simply decided by the fact the men wanted to have them.
There was a large mob completely surrounding Lot's house trying to get these angels. Why? What was so special about them? And at Gibeah the whole town wanted this old Levite - why? What was special about him?

Why not rape Lot? Or did they?

Jesus puts Sodom and pre-flood mankind together in Matthew 24 and says in the last days the same thing will be happening. Now, homosexuality has been going on for thousands of years. All over the earth. And it's not mentioned as the evil of the days of Noah. It may be related, but there is something more significant about the days before the flood than gay sex. People and angels were mating and producing giants.

So I ask myself, why were the men of Sodom so determined to get hold of these angels? How did they come to have abundance of food and idleness? What were they doing? That they were so full of pride over? And what is mankind trying to do today - but not yet accomplished, that is related? That man would be extremely vain about if he were to find a way to do it?

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

The whole reason for the angels were there was to destroy the whole plain; it wasn't simply decided by the fact the men wanted to have them.
There was a large mob completely surrounding Lot's house trying to get these angels. Why? What was so special about them? And at Gibeah the whole town wanted this old Levite - why? What was special about him?

Why not rape Lot? Or did they?

Jesus puts Sodom and pre-flood mankind together in Matthew 24 and says in the last days the same thing will be happening. Now, homosexuality has been going on for thousands of years. All over the earth. And it's not mentioned as the evil of the days of Noah. It may be related, but there is something more significant about the days before the flood than gay sex. People and angels were mating and producing giants.

So I ask myself, why were the men of Sodom so determined to get hold of these angels? How did they come to have abundance of food and idleness? What were they doing? That they were so full of pride over? And what is mankind trying to do today - but not yet accomplished, that is related? That man would be extremely vain about if he were to find a way to do it?

Go on. Finish then. What are you getting at?

 

[Adstar]

The whole reason for the angels were there was to destroy the whole plain; it wasn't simply decided by the fact the men wanted to have them.
There was a large mob completely surrounding Lot's house trying to get these angels. Why? What was so special about them? And at Gibeah the whole town wanted this old Levite - why? What was special about him?

Why not rape Lot? Or did they?

Jesus puts Sodom and pre-flood mankind together in Matthew 24 and says in the last days the same thing will be happening. Now, homosexuality has been going on for thousands of years. All over the earth. And it's not mentioned as the evil of the days of Noah. It may be related, but there is something more significant about the days before the flood than gay sex. People and angels were mating and producing giants.

So I ask myself, why were the men of Sodom so determined to get hold of these angels? How did they come to have abundance of food and idleness? What were they doing? That they were so full of pride over? And what is mankind trying to do today - but not yet accomplished, that is related? That man would be extremely vain about if he were to find a way to do it?

You need to read the Account in the Bible..

The Angels where Not there to destroy the plain.. They went there to give warning to Lot and to tell him to take His family and flee Sodom.. God Himself destroyed Sodom later with a rain of fire and brimstone..

The sodomites wanted to rape the Angels.. But ended up trying to rape Lot because He refused to allow them to rape the Angels.. But the Angels grabbed Lot and pulled Him inside His house and cause the men of Sodom to be blinded..

Genesis 19: KJV
9 "And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. {10} But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. {11} And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door."

 

[posthuman]

The Angels where Not there to destroy the plain.. They went there to give warning to Lot and to tell him to take His family and flee Sodom.. God Himself destroyed Sodom later with a rain of fire and brimstone..

Genesis 19:13
"For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it."

 

[posthuman]

Lot is the nephew of the most powerful man in the land.
Abraham had rescued all the people of the Sodom after they had been defeated and carried off. Sodoms king had offered Lot all the spoils as though paying tribute. It is not a small thing in the context to surround Lot's house.

What made these men who surrounded Lots house so eager to threaten Abraham's beloved family members? Hormones? How do you figure they became so bold? Hormones? I do not think fleshly lust as a motivation is quite sufficient to explain what happened here.

 

[dcontroversal]

See now u say this without any proof but after reading it you will be able to say with reference.But what if your suspicion on Quran clears that would need grief counselling!

The proof is in the idiotic ideals the Quran peddles...............and historically speaking.....ALLAH is just a repackaged MOON god and the ramblings of a fool.......

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

Lot is the nephew of the most powerful man in the land.
Abraham had rescued all the people of the Sodom after they had been defeated and carried off. Sodoms king had offered Lot all the spoils as though paying tribute. It is not a small thing in the context to surround Lot's house.

What made these men who surrounded Lots house so eager to threaten Abraham's beloved family members? Hormones? How do you figure they became so bold? Hormones? I do not think fleshly lust as a motivation is quite sufficient to explain what happened here.

I don't consider the desires of sodomites to be fleshly lusts.

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

The proof is in the idiotic ideals the Quran peddles...............and historically speaking.....ALLAH is just a repackaged MOON god and the ramblings of a fool.......

Shouldn't you try to be respectful? This Muslim has come here, and is clearly seeking the truth. Why do you seek to harm him by insulting what he holds dear?

Granted, we believe Muhammad was wrong, and deceived. But do you think speaking in such a way will win any to Christ? Shouldn't you at least try to be as respectful about the Muslim's prophet, as they try to be about Jesus, given that we are believers and have the truth, and they do not?

 

[dcontroversal]

You wouldn't say Jeremiah 8:8 is God's word.
And tell me which son did Abraham took to offer for sacrifice?

The son of PROMISE...not the son of a HANDMAID.....wake up....the one true God is the God of Abraham, ISAAC and JACOB......not ISHMAEL

The god of the Muslims is a fraud, a fake, a wanna be......and Historically speaking just SATAN repackaged.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Shouldn't you try to be respectful? This Muslim has come here, and is clearly seeking the truth. Why do you seek to harm him by insulting what he holds dear?

Granted, we believe Muhammad was wrong, and deceived. But do you think speaking in such a way will win any to Christ? Shouldn't you at least try to be as respectful about the Muslim's prophet, as they try to be about Jesus, given that we are believers and have the truth, and they do not?

NO.....He is devaluing Christ.....I will not coddle ISLAM........ever....and who are you?

 

[he-rat_of_the_circus-mice]

You are not speaking truth pal........make no mistake about it......and YOU devalue JESUS by your Koranic view......JESUS is GOD IN FLESH and you will BOW your knees to him and confess him as GOD before you get cast unless you trust him BY FAITH before it is too late

Jesus indeed is God incarnate, and your accusation that I hold a Koranic view is false testimony. I don't think calling Muhammad a fool is how Jesus, or Paul, or Peter, would act in love toward Muslims.

Gentleness and respect is what we are commanded.

 

[Sipsey]

Thank you,i don't know if it is sarcasm or compliment.

Jesus indeed is God incarnate, and your accusation that I hold a Koranic view is false testimony. I don't think calling Muhammad a fool is how Jesus, or Paul, or Peter, would act in love toward Muslims.

Gentleness and respect is what we are commanded.

The question/s of this Muslim chap, who began this thread, have been answered and reanswered from various angles. He has ignored every response and restated his opinions. He is not a seeker, but seems to find pleasure in sowing dissent, and a false gospel.

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus indeed is God incarnate, and your accusation that I hold a Koranic view is false testimony. I don't think calling Muhammad a fool is how Jesus, or Paul, or Peter, would act in love toward Muslims.

Gentleness and respect is what we are commanded.

Yeah I thought I was replying to the Muslim....if you go back and read you will see I changed it before my 5 min edit time was up......

he-rat_of_the_circus-mice said:
Shouldn't you try to be respectful? This Muslim has come here, and is clearly seeking the truth. Why do you seek to harm him by insulting what he holds dear?

Granted, we believe Muhammad was wrong, and deceived. But do you think speaking in such a way will win any to Christ? Shouldn't you at least try to be as respectful about the Muslim's prophet, as they try to be about Jesus, given that we are believers and have the truth, and they do not?

I changed it to the following

NO.....He is devaluing Christ.....I will not coddle ISLAM........ever....and who are you?