Not By Works

Rosemaryx · Jun 13, 2019

Hi EG...
I agree , because this was my experience when I first got saved...
I was in so much doubt on and off until the word of God was written in my heart , and I knew His promises were true...
It took me a good year of my baby years in Christ to accept what the LORD was telling me , not because I did not believe , because I know the word of God is truth , but it took time for my head to catch up with what I knew , and now 4 yrs on in my walk , the word of God is easy to accept without me doubting that He is talking to me where Salvation is concerned...

When God first called me , I remember saying to Him " God , I do not know your Son , I know He died to save a wretch like me , please help me to know my LORD and Savior " and now I know my LORD and Master , and still getting to know Him...xox...

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

DO you have ANY idea HOW MANY times I have said this very thing?

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

OneOfHis said:

Tell me, what in her reply TO ME addressed anything I said. She talked about a bunch of stuff that was not being challenged instead of addressing what I said. Textbook definition of red herring. She basically changed the subject to avoid replying to what I actually said.

The second and third lines of her reply are actually STRAWMEN, and contain things that I NEVER SAID. Read the post she is replying to. Nowhere in that post did I say that salvation is not a free gift of grace, nor did I say we can pay God back. These are STRAWMEN intended to divert attention away from what I actually said. That makes the whole post a type of red herring.

And for the record, because I know you are careless readers, I never said Christ is our Lord because we accept Him as Lord. I said He is Lord because HE BOUGHT US WITH A PRICE, WE ARE NOT OUR OWN, AND WE ARE HIS. That makes HJm kurios and we are douloi. I bet you didn't even catch that. You people almost never catch the relevant points.

Just as we are not to be ignorant of satan's devices, we are not to be ignorant of human devices of using fallacies to misrepresent another person.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

Actually as I read this over all I see is a clear contradiction...................

A person is not saved by making Jesus Lord of their life.....a person is saved by accepting His free gift of salvation which He gained for them by being their Saviour!!!

It is a sad day when the actual good news is not clearly understood.

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Another strawman on your part. AGAIN, for the second time, I did not say that Christ is Lord because we make Him Lord. That is a silly strawman argument on your part. If you would READ MY POSTS honestly, you would see that I said that CHRIST IS OUR LORD BECAUSE we are bought with a price, we are no longer our own, we belong to Him. A kurios is one who owns a doulos. Christ OWNS us, having purchased us with HIS OWN BLOOD, therefore, we are douloi and He is our kurios.

If you disagree with this, you are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Paul

I'm sorry you believe on a Salvation in which His Lordship is optional. The Bible says we are not our own, our body and spirit are HIS. That makes Him our Lord whether we accept it or not.

If He bought you with His Blood, HE is your Lord, whether you want to believe it or not or whether you know it or accept it or not.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

And you did not address your contradiction

The price was Jesus dying, so yes He paid the price.

And you are adding to the text because it states nothing of we are no longer our own.

…19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

so

UnderGrace said:

No Contradiction at all. If we are saved, we are Christ's possession. That makes Him our Kurios. Are you not Christ's possession given to Him by the Father?

Read the part in red. See, you are a careless reader, that is why you misunderstand my posts.

Btw, you never answered my question on Hebrews 3:6 that I repeated several times, do you want to answer it now? What does Hebrews 3:6 say about perserverance?

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

The first sentence is a terrible fallacy. The problem is not with what we don't know. Our problem is almost always what we know and CHOOSE NOT TO DO.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

Never mind I give up.....you clearly stated you cannot be saved unless you accept Jesus as Lord and then clearly stated a saved person would have Christ as lord whether they accept Him or not.

I am done.

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

I NEVER SAID "unless you accept Jesus as Lord". NEVER. GO back and read what I said.

I said if you are saved, Jesus is your Lord whether you know it or not. BECAUSE you are HIS PURCHASED POSSESSION. That makes Him your kurios. I think the problem is that you don't know what Lord/Kurios means.

This is a text book example for people who doubted me when I said UnderGrace is misrepresenting me with fallacies, strawman arguments, and red herrings. Right here in black and white.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

cannot be saved without Christ being your Lord,

and......

Christ is your Lord if you are saved, whether you know it or not.

Can someone read these two lines and tell me if they read a contradiction?

I completely read two opposing ideas

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Anyone can go back and read my posts and see that I NEVER SAID anything about accepting Jesus as Lord. I said He is your Lord if you are saved, whether you know it or not, because you belong to Him. If you are saved, the Father has GIVEN YOU to Jesus.

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

a. If you are saved, that means you are the PURCHASED POSSESSION OF JESUS.

b. The kurios is owner of the purchased possession.

c.. Therefore, if you are saved, Christ is your KURIOS.

I never made a prescriptive statement about accepting Jesus as Lord. I made A DESCRIPTIVE STATEMENT that all who are saved belong to Him, and He is therefore their Kurios.

You really need to read and think before you react

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

They only contradict if you don't know the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement.

If you are saved, Jesus is your LORD. Descriptive statement.

You must accept Jesus as Lord to be saved. Prescriptive statement.

BTW, are you ready to answer the question what does Hebrews 3:6 say about perserverance yet?

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

Anyone who said I was falsely accusing UnderGrace can now look and see that she accused me of saying something about "accepting Jesus as Lord" and then go back and read my posts and see I never said such a thing. So no false accusation on my part, the false accusers were the ones accusing me.

Talking about "accepting Jesus as Lord is what makes Him Lord" is absurd. We do not make Him Lord over us, the work that He did on Calvary makes Him Lord of us.

Merely accepting does not save us. Being born again by the Spirit of God is SALVATION.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

The Gospel is not accepting Jesus as Lord.

And I will get to the rest tomorrow....the Raptors are playing tonight and that takes precedence

We the North

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

No one said the Gospel is accepting Jesus as Lord. That is a strawman argument. God

Thank you for proving my point about the fact that you are misrepresenting me with strawmen and red herrings.

UnderGrace · Jun 13, 2019

Macabeus said:

Okay....your words....

You must accept Jesus as Lord to be saved

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Post number, please.

Macabeus · Jun 13, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Here is what I said...

Macabeus said:

You took my quote completely out of context. That is why you did not provide post number.

Let me go through this point by point for the lazy readers.

a. I own the descriptive statement I clearly said this.

b. and I do not own the prescriptive statement. I never said this in any place.

b. The descriptive statement is what I said.

c. The prescriptive statement is what I DID NOT SAY.

d. And I said that you think that there is a contradiction because you do not know the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement,

e ie you interpreted my statement, which was descriptive, as a prescriptive statement.

GO RAPTORS.

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