Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I don't attempt to act like the earthly Christ, I attempt to obey the risen Christ who spoke to us through Paul.
We are required to obey Christ and his law. Read Christ’s LAST instructions to his apostles just before he left the earth—we call this the “Great Commission”— Mark 16:16- “And he said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that Believes and us baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned...
Also recorded in Matthew 28:18,19-“...Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. “
We are to obey “the gospel” of Christ. Whatever is in his gospel, including Belief and Baptism which he particularly specifies.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So we earn salvation by allowing some human sinner to baptise in water?
Yet the law. Which God says is holy and righteous and just, Means nothing at all concerning our salvation?
Lol. Sorry, But I refuse to replace the baptism of God with Baptism in water as a means to new birth and justification.
Jesus said in john 3,4 and 6 and other places. We are born again or made alive by our faith in the son, who was sent to the earth.
I will trust Jesus, ok??
In matt 24, He said
1. Make disciples (a person does not become a disciple UNTIL they are born again and adopted in the family of God)
2. BAPTISE THEM. ( baptism FOLLOWS salvation, it does not PRODUCE salvation.
Mark 16 is questionable at best (things are said there which are never said anyplace else) and even if you believe it is true scripture, there is nothing in the text which says it is WATER BAPTISM as apposed to SPIRIT baptism.
So you have a 1 out of three chance that it is water baptism, I will go with the odds, which is supported by everything else Jesus said.
You do whatever you desire. But be careful. IF spirit baptism, and not water baptism is what saves, That woudl be classified as blasphemy against the spirit. (Attributing the work of the HS in baptism to the work of man in baptism or spiritual vs physical) And that is very dangerous!
OP question: Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
Answer: NO!
Having said that, Jesus was born under the law, preached, taught & flawlessly kept Mosaic law.
After the sinless Jesus paid/atoned for, sins under the law's required wage = DEATH.
The resurrected/glorified Christ chose & sent Paul (Acts 26:17 & 1 Tim 2:7) to gentiles that were never under (Rom 2:14), nor expected to keep Mosaic law (Acts 15:24).
All 13 Holy Spirit inspired epistles written by the Christ chosen Paul. Teach justification/righteousness come by grace thru faith, without the works of the law.
This post is My Opinion Only...
Answer: NO!
Having said that, Jesus was born under the law, preached, taught & flawlessly kept Mosaic law.
After the sinless Jesus paid/atoned for, sins under the law's required wage = DEATH.
The resurrected/glorified Christ chose & sent Paul (Acts 26:17 & 1 Tim 2:7) to gentiles that were never under (Rom 2:14), nor expected to keep Mosaic law (Acts 15:24).
All 13 Holy Spirit inspired epistles written by the Christ chosen Paul. Teach justification/righteousness come by grace thru faith, without the works of the law.
This post is My Opinion Only...
One of the reasons I've stopped posting so much in here is because of peoples adamancy (intentional, and/or willingly ignorant of) in remaining ambiguous! Which leaves the poster plenty of "wiggle room." Especially when trying to actually discern what it is they are trying to say.
When what they are saying, isn't what they are implying. When what they say, isn't actually what they meant, or insinuating (according to them). But, still use terms such as "The Law!" "Works!" And just about any other "words" or phrases in the sacred texts. In disputing what others post in a sincere seeking towards discernment!
They should be ashamed of themselves! Yet, am fairly certain in their "intellectually superior" mindsets, they view it as more "sport", then in honest endeavors. When performing their vocabulatory contortionistic "acts!"
I certainly agree. When you try to understand what their point of view is, they will accuse you of putting words into their mouths, and when you ask them to clarify, they end up confirming what you actually stated about their views.
Why would He?
Jesus lived under the old covenant, the new didn't start until Jesus' ascension.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of the commandments contained in ORDINANCES; ....
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The first covenant had to be "removed" to make room for the 2nd, better one. The Law, written in stone, and had to be followed 'PERFECTLY', if it wasn't there was no heaven. (break one you break them all). The Crucifixion, the blood of Jesus made it THROUGH BELIEF in HIM that we got into heaven NOT by our ability to follow the Law.(no longer of works). If we died with a bit of sin, Jesus blood covered it, HIS GRACE.
THE LAW was and still is good. The Law describes for us who GOD is. WHAT He is about and WHAT He is looking for in us. How do WE please HIM. In order to make it LESS about what we DID and more about WHO WE ARE, it had to go through a change. Jesus is that change.
Before Jesus as the Lamb of God, (the last blood sacrifice) sin was only forgiven through an animal blood sacrifice. There were many statutes and ordinances that had to be performed. There were priests that had to perform those duties. They also were the ones who spoke to God for us. The whole process took lots of time. We stayed in that state of sin until it was accomplished. How long can we remain in that sinless state while in the flesh? (can we know what GRACE consists of if we don't know what those processes were?)
The crucifixion of our Lord and Savoir did many things. Jesus, the Lamb of God, without spot or blemish, became that "blood sacrifice" for ALL. One Perfect Lamb, one last blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of REPENTED of sin. So gone were all the "rituals" or statutes and ordinances that went along with the old way.
Jesus also "rent" the veil. What this means for us was instead of going through a priest, we could now, through repentance, and the blood of Christ talk to God ourselves. We could stay in a "clean, washed" state more of the time. There is no more waiting to be forgiven. Upon our repentance, we are washed clean again.
What is Sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it was the blood sacrifice of the law and all the other things He stated. (Example - circumcision now of the heart, not flesh (blood), - He is our rest EVERYDAY, not just one day)... When He said He didn't so much as change a "jot or tittle" it meant that ALL the parts that WEREN'T changed through HIM, and through HIS suffering and death on the Cross REMAINED INTACT now written upon the heart. (no longer written in stone) What used to just cast a shadow, (just an outline), what once was our "schoolmaster", became through His walk in the flesh, the example of how it is done making it MORE detailed for us, not less.
This is my first post here. PLEASE let me know what rules I have broken and how to fix them so I can find my way with the least amount of trouble. Thank you
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The first covenant had to be "removed" to make room for the 2nd, better one. The Law, written in stone, and had to be followed 'PERFECTLY', if it wasn't there was no heaven. (break one you break them all). The Crucifixion, the blood of Jesus made it THROUGH BELIEF in HIM that we got into heaven NOT by our ability to follow the Law.(no longer of works). If we died with a bit of sin, Jesus blood covered it, HIS GRACE.
THE LAW was and still is good. The Law describes for us who GOD is. WHAT He is about and WHAT He is looking for in us. How do WE please HIM. In order to make it LESS about what we DID and more about WHO WE ARE, it had to go through a change. Jesus is that change.
Before Jesus as the Lamb of God, (the last blood sacrifice) sin was only forgiven through an animal blood sacrifice. There were many statutes and ordinances that had to be performed. There were priests that had to perform those duties. They also were the ones who spoke to God for us. The whole process took lots of time. We stayed in that state of sin until it was accomplished. How long can we remain in that sinless state while in the flesh? (can we know what GRACE consists of if we don't know what those processes were?)
The crucifixion of our Lord and Savoir did many things. Jesus, the Lamb of God, without spot or blemish, became that "blood sacrifice" for ALL. One Perfect Lamb, one last blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of REPENTED of sin. So gone were all the "rituals" or statutes and ordinances that went along with the old way.
Jesus also "rent" the veil. What this means for us was instead of going through a priest, we could now, through repentance, and the blood of Christ talk to God ourselves. We could stay in a "clean, washed" state more of the time. There is no more waiting to be forgiven. Upon our repentance, we are washed clean again.
What is Sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it was the blood sacrifice of the law and all the other things He stated. (Example - circumcision now of the heart, not flesh (blood), - He is our rest EVERYDAY, not just one day)... When He said He didn't so much as change a "jot or tittle" it meant that ALL the parts that WEREN'T changed through HIM, and through HIS suffering and death on the Cross REMAINED INTACT now written upon the heart. (no longer written in stone) What used to just cast a shadow, (just an outline), what once was our "schoolmaster", became through His walk in the flesh, the example of how it is done making it MORE detailed for us, not less.
This is my first post here. PLEASE let me know what rules I have broken and how to fix them so I can find my way with the least amount of trouble. Thank you
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
Deuteronomy 8
All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers.
2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.
I KNOW I've heard verse 3 SOMEWHERES before! Just can't put my finger on where it is! 
Deuteronomy 8
All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers.
2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.
I KNOW I've heard verse 3 SOMEWHERES before! Just can't put my finger on where it is! 
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Welcome to CC, this seems to be a well thought Out post. Thank you.
Yes, The law was our schoolmaster, Its sole purpose was to lead isreal to the messiah so that when he came they woudl recognise him, Sadly, they took it the opposite of what it was intended, and thought it made them acceptable to God as long as they followed it. Forgetting like you said, break one aspect. Your guilty of all. And there really is no redemption (As Hebrews said, the blood of bulls and goats NEVER took away sin)
We see in the OT people like David understood it (Sacrifice and burnt offering you did not desire) And paul stressed over and over as he fought the judaisers who tried to instill the law into Grace, that we are no longer under the law (for the law can ONLY condemn) and how there is a better and living way to learn to walk as Christ did.
LOVE.
Christ walked in love, every action he took, every thought he had was continually focused on the love of his father first, and everyone else, He never once put his needs above the needs of others. This is what God calls for us to do.
However, we need to BE LOVED first and experience it (we love because he first loved us) and realize like paul said in Eph 1 that we have been given every spiritual blessing, there is NOTHING we have to have, that has not already been given to us, Even our eternity is signed sealed and delivered, so there is no hopelessness, Only hope to look forward to. This frees us to love others, to seek after the things of the spirit. To love God first and formost, and love others above ourselves. To become christlike.
Something the law never could and will never be able to do.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
I do believe we are under law and always will be. IF we walk after the Spirit, we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus being freed from the law of sin and death. The law is righteous, the flesh is week. The law is light and easy when we walk in the Spirit and we love it, as we love God. Not one jot or tittle shall pass......Jesus said that.
I also believe there is a distinction between "peoples" in the flesh and that many need to be made MORE the aware, not less. We are to teach and baptize, plant seeds, but not to LOVE everyone. Our brethren? Absolutely. Those who hate God? No.
I also believe the road to God is easy, for those who love the Word, but many who are captured by it, make it sound like if you just give it a shot, you are good to go, Jesus loves everyone, when nothing could be further from the truth. Like that "once saved always saved" that is condemning so many to hell.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
I do believe we are under law and always will be. IF we walk after the Spirit, we are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus being freed from the law of sin and death. The law is righteous, the flesh is week. The law is light and easy when we walk in the Spirit and we love it, as we love God. Not one jot or tittle shall pass......Jesus said that.
I also believe there is a distinction between "peoples" in the flesh and that many need to be made MORE the aware, not less. We are to teach and baptize, plant seeds, but not to LOVE everyone. Our brethren? Absolutely. Those who hate God? No.
I also believe the road to God is easy, for those who love the Word, but many who are captured by it, make it sound like if you just give it a shot, you are good to go, Jesus loves everyone, when nothing could be further from the truth. Like that "once saved always saved" that is condemning so many to hell.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If we are under law. Are we not also under the curse (because no one has kept the law. Nor can they?
The law is righteous, In that it leads people to christ. But after a person has found christ, has paul not said they are no longer under, nor need the schoolmaster?
Did Not jesus in John 6 tell people to seek after food which endures forever. That one can eat, and whoever does eat. Will Never Die, Live Forever, Never hunger or thirst, HAS eternal life, Has passed from death to life and given Christs own assurance that he will (not might) raise them on the last day.
Why is it people want to keep eating food which we must continue to eat like the fathers in the dessert (to maintain our salvation) and not partake of the food which guarantees eternal life (which one can eat and not die)
Why do people claim that those who believe in the security found in Christ, are headed to hell. But those who believe security is found in our actions and deeds, will be freed from the curse of the law based on those deeds, and MAY get to heaven.
Do we trust christ, and his promises based on his work?
Or do we trust self. And our righteousness, and our work?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Anything you do which puts self above others
Anytime you break the law of your leaders
Anytime you do a righteous deed, with selfish reasons.
Breaking the law is sin, But sin is much much deeper than this
In fact, Scripture says if you KNOW to do right, and yet do not do it, It is sin, (this is not found in the law)
Understanding what sin is is so deep that it takes a lifetime of growing in christ to truly understand what it truly is, Thats why you will see people who have been christian for years, and have grown in christ and excelled in discipleship. Claim they are still worse sinners than they thought they were when they first got saved (when they had no comprehension of what true sin was) (paul in the end still considered himself the chief of all sinners)
The law was made to condemn us (prove we are sinners) not show us HOW to be righteous people. That was not its intention or purpose (see gal 3)
Apart from grace we are all judged guilty because each day we fall short of Gods glory (rom 3: 23) which is sin.
This is what the OT defines for us. That is why the OT is still useful today. It delineates Sinful Acts. Sin is also an attitude of rebellion against God.
Romans
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
We can be under the law AND no longer under the curse.
When the "schoolmaster" is finished, you now have the knowledge. When you leave the schoolmaster, you take the knowledge with you.
The food we seek is the love and the wisdom and the knowledge of God. Lots of it found in the Law.
"They will be raised" IF and that is a huge IF that no one likes to really talk about. Many are called, Many are going to hear "I never knew you". Why? because we are not giving the whole story. What are our "MIlk" messages? How often do you see a discussion past them? If you are preaching salvation to someone who has heard and accepted it, you are wasting everyone's time. There are "meat" issues "hard to be...."
I never said it is "through" our actions that we get into Heaven. Though faith without works is dead. We are to trust that Christ did it perfect. Not so we can take "less" upon ourselves, but that we can take more because HE did it ALL, and did it perfect, not only FOR US, but as an example for us showing us how we are to get it done. If we are to be Priests and reign for 1000 yrs, we best learn discipline NOW. He is counting on us "to do", not to get into heaven, but "To do" so He will know He can count on us to do the things He will need us to do for Him. Not needing to be taught again and again (I'll go look it up) but moving on to the meat.
When the "schoolmaster" is finished, you now have the knowledge. When you leave the schoolmaster, you take the knowledge with you.
The food we seek is the love and the wisdom and the knowledge of God. Lots of it found in the Law.
"They will be raised" IF and that is a huge IF that no one likes to really talk about. Many are called, Many are going to hear "I never knew you". Why? because we are not giving the whole story. What are our "MIlk" messages? How often do you see a discussion past them? If you are preaching salvation to someone who has heard and accepted it, you are wasting everyone's time. There are "meat" issues "hard to be...."
I never said it is "through" our actions that we get into Heaven. Though faith without works is dead. We are to trust that Christ did it perfect. Not so we can take "less" upon ourselves, but that we can take more because HE did it ALL, and did it perfect, not only FOR US, but as an example for us showing us how we are to get it done. If we are to be Priests and reign for 1000 yrs, we best learn discipline NOW. He is counting on us "to do", not to get into heaven, but "To do" so He will know He can count on us to do the things He will need us to do for Him. Not needing to be taught again and again (I'll go look it up) but moving on to the meat.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is transgression of the law.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Does the law say to him who knows to do right yet does not do it is a sin?
James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin
Did the law tell you if you even looked at a woman, You were guilty of sexual sin?
Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Why did Jesus have to correct people. Saying the law says this, But I tell you that. Is it not because the law was not a complete list of sins or contain all that can be classified as sin?
If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you drive 70 MPH (for whatever reason) Is it not a sin, and does the law tell you of this sin?
I can give many examples of many sins which are not included, or even hinted at in the law.
why is why it is dangerous to look to the law to see how righteous you are. Because like the pharisees, You can obey the letter of the law. And even be blameless according to the law. Yet still be sinners.. in need of hope. And salvation, and (for those saved) maturity which can not be found in the law.