Faith is a work.

[Beckworth]

I am happy to share my faith. Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 “I will build MY. church. The church belongs to him. He is the head Colossians 1:18- “and He is the head of the body, the church”. In Acts 2:38 3000 people obeyed the sermon preached by Peter When they asked, “what shall we do?” Peter told them “Repent and be baptized, everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the remission of sins. “. In verse 47 he says “. The Lord added to the church those who were being saved”. Simple isn’t it. No one Voted them into the Lord’s church. He added them. It was his church. I have been saved the way they were saved; and all of the people who were saved in that first century. God is no respecter of persons. He doesn’t save one person one way and another person another way. There is just one way and it is the Bible way. Ephesians 4:4 says there is One body (church), one Lord, One Faith one baptism, one Lord. There were no denominations then in the 1st century. So, no, I am not a member of any denomination. The word “ denomination” means “division” and Jesus prayed in the garden for all those who believe in him that “ they may all be ONE, Father as you are in me and I in thee “”John 17:20, 21. Denominational is not what Jesus wanted. And every denomination was started by men, not God. Go to any good reference site and you can easily find your denomination with its history of who started it and when. Any church that was started by man AFTER 1st century is-definitely not the church that Jesus started. The first denomination was the catholic church in 606. Six hundred years after the 1 st century. All of the others came even later after that. The church in the Bible had a simple organization of elders, (also called pastors and bishops), deacons 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Then ministers of the gospel (preachers). And saints (individual members.). I am a member of the church that you read about in the Bible. My plea is for everyone to throw off the denominations with all of their false doctrines and come back to the Bible. Be what they were in the first century—just Christians. You can easily prove what I am saying is true. Just study your Bible. In the parable of the sower Jesus said the “seed” is the word of God ( the Bible). When you plant the “Bible” all you get is a Christian. Do you know what you get when you plant the Baptist Manual? You get a Baptist. When you plant a Methodist discipline, you get a Methodist. When you plant a Book of Mormon you get a Mormon. And on and on. Every denomination has its own creed. I say let’s go back to no creed but the Bible! Let’s do Bible things in Bible ways and call Bible things by Bible names. Let’s go back to the Bible. Throw off the shackles of denominationalism, with their creeds and doctrines of men and be just what the Bible wants you to be. This is what I am. The church of the Bible even had a name in the first century. In Romans 16:16-“ the churches of Christ salute you”.

 

[Beckworth]

Psalms 133:1
Behold, how good and how pleasant [it is] For brethren to dwell together in unity!

Yes. We could ALL dwell in unity if everyone would throw away their man made creeds and go back to the Bible. Denominationalism is what is dividing us. Interesting that the word denomination means division.

 

[mailmandan]

The problem is that you have been taught salvation by faith alone so that you cannot read a verse about faith and not add the word alone or only, at least in your mind.

The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

There are other things in the Bible that are necessary to salvation but you will never see them as such as long as you believe the false doctrine of faith only. James 2:24 says specificlly, NOT BY FAITH ONLY. But that is another passage you will have to reject if you believe in faith only.

Works-salvationists often get tripped up over James 2:24 because they ignore the CONTEXT - James 2:14-24. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims they have faith but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

*Don't conflate faith that "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) with an "empty profession of faith/dead faith" that "remains alone - barren of works." (James 2:14-24)

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[mailmandan]

Other verses you will not believe will be ones like Romans 10:10 confession is made unto salvation;

I've heard people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally "confess with their mouth." Also, those who teach that we are not saved until after we are water baptized place confession before baptism (usually in a 4-5 step plan of salvation) so confession unto salvation before water baptism becomes a problematic contradiction for such people.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

*So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

Nark 16:16 Belief AND BAPTISM equals salvation;

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1peter 3:21 “...baptism now SAVES us...”;

Yet another verse read out of context. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE.

*In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

Luke 13:3,5 I tell you nay except you repent you will perish; and I could go on and on with at least that many more.

Repentance precedes saving faith in Christ. Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

None of these passages can be true lf according to you, salvation is by faith only. Why not forget that doctrine, it’s a doctrine of men and a lie that Satan wants people to believe just so they will not believe wha God has plainly said in the Bible. As long as you believe this you will not do what God wants you to do. Why not just take the Bible for what it says?

You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine instead of distorting and perverting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" your so called gospel plan. Do you attend the church of Christ?

 

[mailmandan]

The church of the Bible even had a name in the first century. In Romans 16:16-“ the churches of Christ salute you”.

I knew it! You attend the church of Christ (Campbellism)

I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.

 

[Beckworth]

Well you are half right. But Campbell did not start the church of Christ. Study your history. It really doesn’t matter what church I AM A Member Of , what matters is what the Bible teaches. Let me ask you, what man started your church and when? Do you claim to be a member of the church that is described in the NT. ? Are you organized the way they were? Do you worship the way they worshipped? Do you wear a man made name? We’re you saved the same way the 3000 were on the day of Pentecost? Acts2 or the way the Eunuch was in Acts 8? Did you have your sins “washed away” in baptism like the apostle Paul? If you did then wonderful! We are brothers in Christ. But I wonder if you can say yes to any of those questions. Just claiming to be a member of the Lords church does not make you a member. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...etc.

 

[crossnote]

I am happy to share my faith. Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 “I will build MY. church. The church belongs to him. He is the head Colossians 1:18- “and He is the head of the body, the church”. In Acts 2:38 3000 people obeyed the sermon preached by Peter When they asked, “what shall we do?” Peter told them “Repent and be baptized, everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the remission of sins. “. In verse 47 he says “. The Lord added to the church those who were being saved”. Simple isn’t it. No one Voted them into the Lord’s church. He added them. It was his church. I have been saved the way they were saved; and all of the people who were saved in that first century. God is no respecter of persons. He doesn’t save one person one way and another person another way. There is just one way and it is the Bible way. Ephesians 4:4 says there is One body (church), one Lord, One Faith one baptism, one Lord. There were no denominations then in the 1st century. So, no, I am not a member of any denomination. The word “ denomination” means “division” and Jesus prayed in the garden for all those who believe in him that “ they may all be ONE, Father as you are in me and I in thee “”John 17:20, 21. Denominational is not what Jesus wanted. And every denomination was started by men, not God. Go to any good reference site and you can easily find your denomination with its history of who started it and when. Any church that was started by man AFTER 1st century is-definitely not the church that Jesus started. The first denomination was the catholic church in 606. Six hundred years after the 1 st century. All of the others came even later after that. The church in the Bible had a simple organization of elders, (also called pastors and bishops), deacons 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Then ministers of the gospel (preachers). And saints (individual members.). I am a member of the church that you read about in the Bible. My plea is for everyone to throw off the denominations with all of their false doctrines and come back to the Bible. Be what they were in the first century—just Christians. You can easily prove what I am saying is true. Just study your Bible. In the parable of the sower Jesus said the “seed” is the word of God ( the Bible). When you plant the “Bible” all you get is a Christian. Do you know what you get when you plant the Baptist Manual? You get a Baptist. When you plant a Methodist discipline, you get a Methodist. When you plant a Book of Mormon you get a Mormon. And on and on. Every denomination has its own creed. I say let’s go back to no creed but the Bible! Let’s do Bible things in Bible ways and call Bible things by Bible names. Let’s go back to the Bible. Throw off the shackles of denominationalism, with their creeds and doctrines of men and be just what the Bible wants you to be. This is what I am. The church of the Bible even had a name in the first century. In Romans 16:16-“ the churches of Christ salute you”.

I see, you have your own creed based on your own interpretation and are endeavoring to persuade others to your view of faith + works...The Beckworthians, good going.
Doesn't it concern you that 10 others here, with the Scriptures as their guide gave you a disagreement X on your opening salvo concerning your contention that faith is a work?

 

[crossnote]

I knew it! You attend the church of Christ (Campbellism)

I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith.

Well you are half right. But Campbell did not start the church of Christ. Study your history. It really doesn’t matter what church I AM A Member Of , what matters is what the Bible teaches. Let me ask you, what man started your church and when? Do you claim to be a member of the church that is described in the NT. ? Are you organized the way they were? Do you worship the way they worshipped? Do you wear a man made name? We’re you saved the same way the 3000 were on the day of Pentecost? Acts2 or the way the Eunuch was in Acts 8? Did you have your sins “washed away” in baptism like the apostle Paul? If you did then wonderful! We are brothers in Christ. But I wonder if you can say yes to any of those questions. Just claiming to be a member of the Lords church does not make you a member. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...etc.

So I asked you what Church you were affiliated with and you lied and covered up (post #21). Are you ashamed of your affiliation?

 

[Beckworth]

The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Works-salvationists often get tripped up over James 2:24 because they ignore the CONTEXT - James 2:14-24. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims they have faith but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

*Don't conflate faith that "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) with an "empty profession of faith/dead faith" that "remains alone - barren of works." (James 2:14-24)

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Mark 16:16- He that believes AND is baptized will be saved.
Belief +(plus) Baptism = salvation. Bible
1. +. 1. =. 2. Bible

You, (along with most denominations) teach...
Belief will save you without baptism
1. =. 2. - 1
B.elief = Salvation minus- baptism.

Sorry. I will have to go with the Bible. Do you see how you are perverting that scripture?? Do you not believe in the inspiration of the scriptures? 1 Timothy 3:16. ALL scripture is inspired of God... that includes Mark 16:16. I would be very afraid if I were you of
what God might do to me for perverting, twisting, changing and contradicting his Word that way. 🙏🏼 For you, my friend.

 

[crossnote]

Mark 16:16- He that believes AND is baptized will be saved.
Belief +(plus) Baptism = salvation. Bible
1. +. 1. =. 2. Bible

You, (along with most denominations) teach...
Belief will save you without baptism
1. =. 2. - 1
B.elief = Salvation minus- baptism.

Sorry. I will have to go with the Bible. Do you see how you are perverting that scripture?? Do you not believe in the inspiration of the scriptures? 1 Timothy 3:16. ALL scripture is inspired of God... that includes Mark 16:16. I would be very afraid if I were you of
what God might do to me for perverting, twisting, changing and contradicting his Word that way. 🙏🏼 For you, my friend.

Mark 16:16 is a questionable addition. Have anything more solid?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

 

[Beckworth]

I see, you have your own creed based on your own interpretation and are endeavoring to persuade others to your view of faith + works...The Beckworthians, good going.
Doesn't it concern you that 10 others here, with the Scriptures as their guide gave you a disagreement X on your opening salvo concerning your contention that faith is a work?

The majority does not prove a thing right. In fact I think I am probably in pretty good company since Jesus said...straight is the way that leads to eternal life and few there be that find it, but broad is the way to destruction and many there be that go there in. No, it doesn’t bother me, only makes me sad that I am not able to save more.

 

[oldethennew]

'Great Peace have they that Love Thy Law, and nothing shall offend them'.

OH how we always yearn to meet our Brothers and Sisters who abide in Christ's Heart...

 

[crossnote]

The majority does not prove a thing right. In fact I think I am probably in pretty good company since Jesus said...straight is the way that leads to eternal life and few there be that find it, but broad is the way to destruction and many there be that go there in. No, it doesn’t bother me, only makes me sad that I am not able to save more.

Well in the first place it's Jesus who saves, not you.
Secondly the way is as broad as the cross is wide. We only enter through His death and blood.
Lastly to be wrong on something as big as adding works as a requirement for salvation is a doctrine that you and most all cults have in common.

 

[posthuman]

Yes. We could ALL dwell in unity if everyone would throw away their man made creeds and go back to the Bible. Denominationalism is what is dividing us. Interesting that the word denomination means division.

i am interested to know what do you think when you read verses that clearly tell you without dissimulation that we are saved not by works ?

do you rationalize them away?

 

[posthuman]

I just hope I didn't pressure any of that 'unity' and it was your own 'God given' volition. (he he)

well, if you did, it's not that you convinced me to side with you, but that you convinced me to go ahead and publicly declare it

 

[Beckworth]

Mark 16:16 is questionable addition. Have anything more solid?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

What about Acts 8 where Phillip was converting the lost in Samaria. Verse 12 and 13 says that when they BELIEVED Phillip preaching the things about Jesus, they were BAPTIZED...every example of conversion in the NT has sinners being saved this way. Here are some scriptures. Please read and study them.; Acts 2:38 they believed (what shall we do) and we’re baptized. Acts 8- the Samaritans and the Ethiopian eunuch. Phillip preached Jesus to him and although nothing is said in the scriptures about Phillip teaching baptism, yet as soon as the eunuch came to some water, he said “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”” And he was baptized. You see the implication. Phillip MUST HAVE TAUGHT baptism. How else would the eunuch have known to do it. ? Then we have Acts 9 the conversion of Saul (Paul). Obviously he believed on the road to Damascus when he talked to Jesus, and he asked, “what would you have me do Lord? This was the perfect place for Jesus to say, you don’t have to do anything you are already saved. Or why didn’t Jesus ask him to say @The sinners prayer” ( not found ANYWHERE in the Bible). Jesus didn’t say there’s nothing you need to do, instead he said “ Go into the city and there it will be told you what you MUST DO”.. later in Acts 22:16 Paul is recounting his conversion to the Jewish mob and he said after 3 days Ananias came to him and told him to “ A rise and be baptized and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS”. This corresponds completely with what Peter said about baptism in Acts 2:38 @baptism for the remission of sins. Quickly, I will just mention Lydia, Acts 16:14,15 ( beloved and was baptized) and the Phillipian jailor. He was told to believe and he would be saved then they taught him the word of the Lord and he was baptized in the wee hours of the morning. They didn’t wait bc baptism was essential to salvation. Everywhere in the NT people obeyed the instructions in Mark 16:16. You will find no contradiction. I left out Acts 10 the conversion of Cornelius ( by mistake) but the apostle Peter COMMANDED them to be baptized inverses 47 and 48. Jesus himself commanded baptism in the great commission in Matthew 28.:18,19. I don’t have a problem believing Mark 16:16 but if you have doubts then I hope you will take the time to study each one of these conversions and see for yourself that belief and baptism equals salvation. God bless.

 

[Beckworth]

i am interested to know what do you think when you read verses that clearly tell you without dissimulation that we are saved not by works ?

do you rationalize them away?

Well I posted a thread about that but I will say again- there are different kinds of works in the NT. When you say “ not by works” what kind of works are you talking about? If you are talking about “boastful works” in Ephesians 2 then I am in complete agreement with that verse. I would never try to justify those. If you are talking about “works of the law (Moses), those are entirely different works from Ephesians 2 and no, I am in complete agreement we cannot be saved by those. But what I believe and you don’t is that there are works of God that are not only good but necessary. Like the one talked about in John 6:29 “ this is the work of God that you believe ...”. Faith is a work,too. Do you want to eliminate that? Now how do you respond to that verse? Do you just rationalize it away? Once you understand and accept that there are good works of God that are essential to salvation as faith is then you solve a lot of problems with Faith/andvworks. A work of God is a work that originated with God- not man. It is commanded by God not man. Most people who vehemently oppose works of any kind will not accept that there are good works of God that must be obeyed but there it is in verse 29. Are you honest enough to accept what that verse is saying?

 

[posthuman]

If you are talking about “boastful works”

tell me about the kind of work that no one can possibly boast of . . ?

 

[posthuman]

Faith is a work

your favorite verse here says belief is a work -- nay the work -- of God

is it an accident that faith is listed as a gift of the Spirit ((1 Cor. 12:9))?
or is it a different kind of faith that originates with God and is given to men?

you've read the rest of John 6, right? are we talking about what man does here, or what God does?
or are we just talking semantics - as in, 'quibbling about words' ?

thanks for the reply

 

[posthuman]

Most people who vehemently oppose works of any kind

what person is it that 'vehemently opposes works of any kind' ???

we have a lot of people here who vehemently oppose attributing salvation to any work of man -- which is absolutely scriptural:

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy. ​

(Romans 9:16) ​

but i think maybe you are just giving me the same ancient straw-man-argument that Paul himself was slanderously accused of? ((Romans 3:8)) which is -- to wit: the false accusation that recognizing our salvation is a gift of God, entirely by mercy, not of ourselves, = we refuse to do anything good or righteous?