Born Again Speaking in Tongues

[CS1]

The thing is, I'm not seeing the fruit of the Spirit abroad which is "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." (Galatians 5:22-23)

that too is a misunderstanding the fruits of the Holy Spirit are not gifts of the Holy Spirit seen in 1cor chapter 12 thru 14.

Fruits of the Spirit found in Gal Five are contrasted to the lust of the flesh which we are not to walk in them read all Gal 5.

The fruits of the Spirit are to be developed in the believer fruit of the Spirit comes by walking in the Spirit Gal 5:16
verses 19- 21 you will see the contrast

Verses 22-26

when you do not walk after the flesh and seek to love that is walking in the Spirit.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit is given by the Holy Spirit for the betterment of the whole body of Christ as it states in chapter 12 of 1Corinthians the gifts are to be used in love as chapter 13 states of 1cor 13


The fruit comes out of one who has a changed heart Gal 5
the gifts are given by the Holy Spirit as HE sees best for the betterment of all

 

[PS]

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Scripture is clear.

At this very moment and for the rest of my life on earth, I am being sanctified

Yet I have been perfected forever.

Whether I feel it or not does not matter, Its why in Eph paul told us to sit and KNOW what we have given, before we get up to walk. Our walk minus the knowledge of hp in Christ will fail.

For perfected read, "Jesus has procured our remission from sin. "

He hath perfected for ever - He has procured remission of sins and holiness; fur it is well observed here, and in several parts of this epistle, that τελειοω, to make perfect, is the same as αφεσιν ἁμαρτιων ποιεω, to procure remission of sins. (Clarke)

I'm sorry, but you are not perfect in the sense of which you are thinking.

 

[UnderGrace]

Does it edify you or build you up?

Of course, how else would I be edified....Paul teaches this exactly, if it is not a language that is understood/comprehended there is no edification.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For perfected read, "Jesus has procured our remission from sin. "

He hath perfected for ever - He has procured remission of sins and holiness; fur it is well observed here, and in several parts of this epistle, that τελειοω, to make perfect, is the same as αφεσιν ἁμαρτιων ποιεω, to procure remission of sins. (Clarke)

I'm sorry, but you are not perfect in the sense of which you are thinking.

Yes you got it

Remission of sin

Ie, I am positionally perfect IN CHRIST (my sins are completely forgiven, also known as positional sanctification, which every child of God has received the moment they were saved)

But at the same time, Here on earth, I am being sanctified daily (also called conditional sanctification)

 

[CS1]

Is speaking in a unknow tongue prophecy that come from God? If its a unknown how could be a feast?How would you know its not poison as false doctrine?

you do not know as you have been told the gifts of tongues and interpretation which is the same as prophesying which is not the same thing as being in the office of a Prophet. You have been told and shown that in the word of God more than I can name.

Prophet = one who speaks for God or the Mouth used from God.

Prophesying = speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit....... you ready "The Word of God" i.e. nothing new but confirmation from what has already be said BUT amplified the following to the body of believers as 1cor 12-14 says: Encourage, Comfort, Edify, and Bring glory to God.

 

[PS]

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit is given by the Holy Spirit for the betterment of the whole body of Christ as it states in chapter 12 of 1Corinthians the gifts are to be used in love as chapter 13 states of 1cor 13

The fruit comes out of one who has a changed heart Gal 5
the gifts are given by the Holy Spirit as HE sees best for the betterment of all

I went off at a bit of a tangent to make a point which was, and which you confirm, is that the fruit of the Spirit should be seen in the life of the redeemed who are blessed, nay, even perfected by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It seems I was wrong to think that the beauty of Jesus could be seen in those in whom He dwells.

 

[PS]

Yes you got it

Remission of sin

Ie, I am positionally perfect IN CHRIST (my sins are completely forgiven, also known as positional sanctification, which every child of God has received the moment they were saved)

But at the same time, Here on earth, I am being sanctified daily (also called conditional sanctification)

I would be careful how you bandy the word "perfect" around. It reads as though you think you are perfect. That is not a claim anyone can make. In the world of changing language, "redeemed" might be a better choice of word.

 

[PS]

Is speaking in a unknow tongue prophecy that come from God? If its a unknown how could be a feast?How would you know its not poison as false doctrine?

By the interpretation.

 

[PS]

Lights out for me.

 

[Wansvic]

Oh is this so?

Lets see, Acts 2 and Acts 10, Many were edified by those who spoke in tongues.

Sorry my friend, I just can not agree.

Meant to say there are some people.

 

[PS]

Yes you got it

Remission of sin

Ie, I am positionally perfect IN CHRIST (my sins are completely forgiven, also known as positional sanctification, which every child of God has received the moment they were saved)

But at the same time, Here on earth, I am being sanctified daily (also called conditional sanctification)

That is not the same as having the gifts of the Spirit. Salvation comes first, and the gifts of the Spirit are usually received later by those who seek them. This is why I said you have the Spirit of Christ, but we still need to see evidence of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It was very visible in the early church. We pale into insignificance alongside them.

 

[Wansvic]

Have you read acts? Acts has MANY examples of people listening to pauls message, and many jew and gentile getting saved with no mention of speaking in tongues, and no command for them to be baptised.

Your stuck on two maybe 3 examples. Two or three events do not make a doctrine, when the mass majority show otherwise.

Just because something is not mentioned doesn't exclude it from having been done. In each case I am sure you would agree that people repented. But repentance is not always mentioned either.

The "mass majority" of scripture that you reference speaks of things necessary for growth after the foundation has been laid. And as to the examples I noted, according to the word those scripture establish a biblical truth.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes I do. And paul tells us HOW we got it

Eph 1: 13 - 14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


1. Hear the word
2. Believe (true living faith)
3. Given the Holy Spirit as a pledge

No baptism in water, no tongues.



Once again

Eph 1: 13 - 14

See also pauls message in both of his missionary journeys, Same message every time.

What was the word of truth heard?

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15

I see the word of truth as being belief in Jesus and His sacrifice, and being obedient to the command to repent, be water baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. And the reason I do is because it is an established concept in the word.

 

[mailmandan]

I see the word of truth as being belief in Jesus and His sacrifice, and being obedient to the command to repent, be water baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. And the reason I do is because it is an established concept in the word.

Belief in Jesus as in mere "mental assent" belief? Do you define repent as moral self-reformation or perhaps to completely stop sinning? Do you believe that believing the gospel precedes repentance? What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? Do you believe that a person is not saved until AFTER they receive water baptism? Do you believe that a person MUST be water baptized "in Jesus name only" as a baptism/salvation formula? Do you believe that if a person is water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that person will remain lost? Do you believe that if a believer does not speak in tongues they will not be saved?

 

[corazondeldei]

Another untruthful deceiver

Dc does nto teach disobedience to God. Quite the opposite!

Why do you think someone will attack those who teach, preach or promote obedience to God if he himself teaches the same thing? Are you now saying that dcon was double talking when he insists that faith alone saves while all along he was teaching obedience to God? Now it's clear to me that the real intention was to provoke an argument to keep the thread alive for whatever personal gain or satisfaction and not really to find the truth and to edify the Christian community in this forum for the glory of God. Well, thank you for your eye-opening remarks.

NIV1984 1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

"No deceiver would truly teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."

 

[CS1]

Why do you think someone will attack those who teach, preach or promote obedience to God if he himself teaches the same thing? Are you now saying that dcon was double talking when he insists that faith alone saves while all along he was teaching obedience to God? Now it's clear to me that the real intention was to provoke an argument to keep the thread alive for whatever personal gain or satisfaction and not really to find the truth and to edify the Christian community in this forum for the glory of God. Well, thank you for your eye-opening remarks.

NIV1984 1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

"No deceiver would truly teach obedience to God and no true Christian would ever teach DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD."

Corazondeldei,

don't worry about Those who suggest one is building a doctrine on only three verses in the Bible is intellectually dishonest, and has completely thrown the full word of God. Those who oppose the understanding of the book of Acts and what the Holy Spirit has done recorded in the lives of the Believers.

Jesus spoke of this in Mark 16 and Matthew 28 and John 14 & 15 and in the Book of Acts 1:8

also in Acts five separate and dramatic instances of its outpouring on believers in:
day of Pentecost
we see 3000 come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost one verse showed us the power of the gospel. Those empowered by the Holy Spirit in what is only three verses as some say happened to how many people?



Acts 2:1-4, 120 filled and spoke in tongues 3000 saved
4:28-31, 5000 filled with the Holy Spirit
8:15-17, people of the city the number of how many are not said, however, from what we do know of this city it was in the 1000's
10:44 many more also here were baptized with the power of the Holy Spirit
and
19:6.[1] the 12 all baptized spoke in tongues and magnified God.

Then we have three chapters in 1cor starting at chapter 12 to 14
and we have also the Acts of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

 

[CS1]

Corazondeldei,

don't worry about Those who suggest one is building a doctrine on only three verses in the Bible is intellectually dishonest, and has completely thrown the full word of God. Those who oppose the understanding of the book of Acts and what the Holy Spirit has done recorded in the lives of the Believers.

Jesus spoke of this in Mark 16 and Matthew 28 and John 14 & 15 and in the Book of Acts 1:8

also in Acts five separate and dramatic instances of its outpouring on believers in:
day of Pentecost
we see 3000 come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost one verse showed us the power of the gospel. Those empowered by the Holy Spirit in what is only three verses as some say happened to how many people?



Acts 2:1-4, 120 filled and spoke in tongues 3000 saved
4:28-31, 5000 filled with the Holy Spirit
8:15-17, people of the city the number of how many are not said, however, from what we do know of this city it was in the 1000's
10:44 many more also here were baptized with the power of the Holy Spirit
and
19:6.[1] the 12 all baptized spoke in tongues and magnified God.

Then we have three chapters in 1cor starting at chapter 12 to 14
and we have also the Acts of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament.

My point is this, we see in both the Old and New Testament the working of the Holy Spirit in the believer in a supernatural way.

Jesus said this would happen Mtt 28 and Mark 16

Acts confirm it not three times but 5 times where those saved and many filled with the Holy Spirit 8000 and many more.

God only flooded the earth once yet today some Christians teach that was metaphorically not literal. They also teach the bible is not the word of God be contains it. Now, these same name sayers tell us we build a doctrine on three verses in the bible LOL hahahahah right. Yet they cannot show one verse, not ONE where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today NOT ONE LOL.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would be careful how you bandy the word "perfect" around. It reads as though you think you are perfect. That is not a claim anyone can make. In the world of changing language, "redeemed" might be a better choice of word.

Do you not read?

God calls me perfect (in him) (the righteousness of Christ in me)
Your argument is with God not me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just because something is not mentioned doesn't exclude it from having been done. In each case I am sure you would agree that people repented. But repentance is not always mentioned either.

The "mass majority" of scripture that you reference speaks of things necessary for growth after the foundation has been laid. And as to the examples I noted, according to the word those scripture establish a biblical truth.

There is a difference

Faith is impossible without repentance

Ie, If I have faith, It is KNOWN I have repented.

Baptism is a different story. I can have faith in God to save me, yet not be baptised yet. So you can not assume anything.

Once again, Paul said how we recieved the spirit

Either paul lied. He left something out. Or you are in error. Those are the only two options.

I will stick with paul

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What was the word of truth heard?

The same word of truth paul spoke over and over, as did Jesus

Believe in the name of Jesus and you will be saved.

In Fact Paul said, this, After you heard THEN believed you were sealed.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15

I see the word of truth as being belief in Jesus and His sacrifice, and being obedient to the command to repent, be water baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. And the reason I do is because it is an established concept in the word.

You see you trying to save yourself. And replacing the work of God in baptizing you with the work of man.

I refuse to add my works to the grace of God. As paul says it makes grace null and void

You do whatever you desire.