J
Jesus is Jehovah? So Jehovah is Son in trinity?
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Nope. These are the correct translations of those verses,
All through him came to be, and without him came to be not even one that came to be.
John 1:3
because by him were created, all in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible, and the invisible, whether thrones, or masterships, or rulers, or authorities, all by him and for him were created.
Colossians 1:16
http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/
That is incorrect, Jesus Christ always eternally existed as God Almighty before His incarnation as a man. Jesus Christ is also the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament and He is not an angel. The Hebrew word for angel is "malak" and that word can mean an actual angel like Michael or Gabriel but it can also mean simply a messenger.
Look at Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I am going to send My angel/malik/messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the angel/malak/messenger" of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming, says the Lord of hosts.
You have in this verse John the Baptist who is identified as the angel/messenger of the Lord preparing the way of the Lord who will come to His temple. Who do you suppose that is? And who do you suppose is the angel/malak/messenger of the covenant in the Old Testament? Where can this covenant be found? Also read Mark 1:1-4 which shows John the Baptist preparing the way of the Lord, and he ain't no angel, except maybe to his mother. In fact, please notice the name of the book of "Malachi." Malachi is a prophet and a messenger and his actual name is from the root word "malak."
Also as a side note neustar, if you look at Revelation 3:14 it says, "The Amen; the faithful and true Witness, the "Beginning" of the creation of God says this." The Jehovah witnesses and others like the uinitarains latch on to this verse to prove Jesus is a created being. This is not the case because that word for begining in the Greek is "arche." We get our English word "architect" from that word and Jesus is the "orgin/architect/designer of creation." John 1:3 backs this up as well as Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:10. Any questions?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
jaybird88
Guest
Ok call it prince, the point I was making had to do the " of the age" rather than everlasting which are quite different.
You know neustar, I went to the site your provided here, "The Lie of The Trinity" and then I found the following here: http://www.wisdomofgod.us/statement-of-belief/
This is your statement of beliefs which is a mile long but did read most of it and discovered that your bottom line is that Jesus Christ is not God, but rather a created being like the rest of humanity. You also do not understand the term "firstborn" as it relates to Jesus Christ. It does not necessarily mean being literally born or created. To be continued.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Read this bible study regarding "aeons" and "aeonial" http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/2...mmortality-and-the-mistranslation-of-eternal/ .
You know neustar, I went to the site your provided here, "The Lie of The Trinity" and then I found the following here: http://www.wisdomofgod.us/statement-of-belief/
This is your statement of beliefs which is a mile long but did read most of it and discovered that your bottom line is that Jesus Christ is not God, but rather a created being like the rest of humanity. You also do not understand the term "firstborn" as it relates to Jesus Christ. It does not necessarily mean being literally born or created. To be continued.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
It never ceases to amaze me how people are caused to stumble from attaining the truth in one way or another. Jews are caused to stumble by the belief in Yeshuah. Evolutionist believers are caused to stumble by the belief that the earth is less than 6,000 years old. And trinitarians are caused to stumble by the belief that Yeshuah was created and is called "God" because he is the representation of God.
and you think there is such a thing as salvation by human sacrifice; that a created thing can redeem your soul.
If the blood of animals could atone for the souls of men, why not the firstborn son of God from heaven, who is greater than animals?
Boy have you ever been "duped." Or are you the owner of the site you provided? Here is the first paragraph from your statement of beliefs.
There is only one God, who has no equal, identified as I AM, whose existence had no name before the beginning, since language had not yet been created for names to exist. Only he alone existed before the beginning, hence why he is also called “Father”, because in relation to time, which began in the beginning, a father exists first, then a son is born after, which implies that anyone declared to be “son” came into existence in the beginning or anytime onwards, but not before the beginning. A father is also greater than a son, which is why Yeshuah referred to the Father as “greater than I”, for the Father alone is infinite, which relates to why he alone cannot be contained by what he created, because it is finite, hence “but will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built”. Aside from Yeshuah Messiah, angels are also called sons of God. Deuteronomy 6:4, John 14:28, 1 Kings 8:27, Exodus 3:14, Psalms 147:5, Genesis 6:2.
Wow, what a mess your involved in neustar. At John 1:2 "beginning," the definite article has been supplied where the actual Greek is "en arche-that is, "In beginning." The "Word of God" was there before the creation of time/space-mass universe. The point is the fact that John's beginning es before the Genesis beginning extending into eternity past.
In other words, the main thought in Genesis 1:1 is on WHAT HAPPENED "in the beginning," and at John 1:1 the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED "in the beginning." John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was "WITH" God, and the Word was God." This is not talking about the spoken word or even the thoughts or plan of God. The Word is a person identified as Jesus Christ.
If as you say God existed alone or by Himself then God is not love. Love is always "reciprocal" or done in return. Also, as John 1:1 states, "the Word was WITH God." You cannot be "with" someone and at the same time be that someone. I'm talking about "persons" within the one being of God. Look what Jesus said at what Jesus says at John 17:5. "And now glorify Thou Me TOGETHER with Thyself Father, with the glory I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS."
And John 17:24, "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou has given Me, be with Me where I am in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast Thou hast given Me; FOR THOU DID LOVE ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."
And what are you telling us neustar? God was alone all by Himself because language had not been created for names to exist?
You also stated that a father is greater than a son and to prove it you said that Jesus stated, "The Father is greater than I." Jeus is stateing the Father is greater than Him in position, not in nature or person. The President of the USA is greater in his position as President, not greater in his humanity. I can also give you verses where Jesus Christ says that He is equal to His Father by nature. And why do you think the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy neustar? What was the reason. I'll stop for now and explain your statements about how Moses is a god to Pharaoh and what it means or what Psalm 82:6 means which Jesus quoted to the Jews. I don't want to"overload" your brain but rather give you a chance to "think." IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
jaybird88
Guest
im mostly interested in discussions, not big on passing links back and forth. but thanks
J
jaybird88
Guest
when it comes to bluto you would be better off having a conversation with a cardboard box because any logic, facts and plain reasoning you present he will just ignore it.
what does this mean?
you believe the earth is only 6k years old?
It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(Hebrews 10:4)
. . to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded -- nor did it enter My mind -- that they should do such a detestable thing . .
(Jeremiah 32:35)
Ok then jaybird! Suppose you tell me what "facts" I got wrong and what was illogical or unresoned with what I said? Or are you going to give us the same ole excuse of, "I got to watch what I post or I'll get banned?"
PS: You also said this? "what does this mean? you believe the earth is only 6k years old? What do you think it means jaybird?IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
i noticed he's found a house
((http://www.wisdomofgod.us/assembly/))
i suppose he's telling us he is ready to start a cult, however i consider that he is not ready to start a church.
*shrug* i am happy to have people on the forums.
it gives us opportunity to speak with each other
Boy have you ever been "duped." Or are you the owner of the site you provided? Here is the first paragraph from your statement of beliefs.
There is only one God, who has no equal, identified as I AM, whose existence had no name before the beginning, since language had not yet been created for names to exist. Only he alone existed before the beginning, hence why he is also called “Father”, because in relation to time, which began in the beginning, a father exists first, then a son is born after, which implies that anyone declared to be “son” came into existence in the beginning or anytime onwards, but not before the beginning. A father is also greater than a son, which is why Yeshuah referred to the Father as “greater than I”, for the Father alone is infinite, which relates to why he alone cannot be contained by what he created, because it is finite, hence “but will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built”. Aside from Yeshuah Messiah, angels are also called sons of God. Deuteronomy 6:4, John 14:28, 1 Kings 8:27, Exodus 3:14, Psalms 147:5, Genesis 6:2.
Wow, what a mess your involved in neustar. At John 1:2 "beginning," the definite article has been supplied where the actual Greek is "en arche-that is, "In beginning." The "Word of God" was there before the creation of time/space-mass universe. The point is the fact that John's beginning es before the Genesis beginning extending into eternity past.
In other words, the main thought in Genesis 1:1 is on WHAT HAPPENED "in the beginning," and at John 1:1 the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED "in the beginning." John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was "WITH" God, and the Word was God." This is not talking about the spoken word or even the thoughts or plan of God. The Word is a person identified as Jesus Christ.
If as you say God existed alone or by Himself then God is not love. Love is always "reciprocal" or done in return. Also, as John 1:1 states, "the Word was WITH God." You cannot be "with" someone and at the same time be that someone. I'm talking about "persons" within the one being of God. Look what Jesus said at what Jesus says at John 17:5. "And now glorify Thou Me TOGETHER with Thyself Father, with the glory I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS."
And John 17:24, "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou has given Me, be with Me where I am in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast Thou hast given Me; FOR THOU DID LOVE ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."
And what are you telling us neustar? God was alone all by Himself because language had not been created for names to exist?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
To be called "son" implies to be created, because a son comes after a "Father" in time, not before a father, nor at the same time as a father. This is why the Messiah is called "firstborn of creation", because he was created first, in the beginning, which is why he was with God in the beginning, because that is when he came into existence. This is the truth, and to teach otherwise is blasphemy. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .