Interesting, why do you think the grace dispensation began at the particular point? Wasn't Paul already preaching to the Gentiles before the Jerusalem Council?
Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.
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Interesting, why do you think the grace dispensation began at the particular point? Wasn't Paul already preaching to the Gentiles before the Jerusalem Council?
1 Tim 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Paul was saved by Jesus, even though he committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by approving the stoning of Stephen. Under the law dispensation, that was an unforgivable sin.
But under the grace dispensation, there is no more unforgivable sin. Paul was saved as a pattern for the rest of the church.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
God Made an eternal covenant with the jews. Last I heard. Eternity has nt. yet ended.
But your speaking dual coveannt. Gods plan of salvation for the jews is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. It always has been the same, the same as for you and I.
No I am not. Thats the issue, You think things which are not true.
If I promise you I will do this, It is fulfilled when I do that thing.
If I promise I give you something and will do something FOREVER. It means it is an ongoing thing, and will continue forever. If for any reason, I stop fulfillin gthat promise. I have gone back on my promise and am untrustworthy.
Saying God is no longer obligated to fulfill his eternal promise, is saying he is untrustworthy.
Thats dangerous.
God said he gave them this land, and he will be their God and this is an ETERNAL covenant, between God, Abraham and his son, and ALL their generations forever. He reconfimred the same covenant with Isaac and Jacob.
He gave instructions on how they would be able to be blessed by this covenant, and what would hapen in they would disobey in Lev 26. He even told them if they were completely cast out and their city and sanctuary was destroyed, He will still remember that covenant, and if they repented/ He would return them.
What you are saying, is that no longer holds true.
I can not agree with that, because again, it makes God a liar.
I am not sure what your saying here, please explain.
Whats really interesting is that Acts 15:11 says that through the (Grace) of the Lord Jesus Christ they were both(Jews and gentiles) saved https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15:11&version=KJV and you insist that grace began in another place and at a different time instead of at the Cross. But then in your camp you need it to be somewhere other than them both being saved the same right?
That was Peter's show of support for the gospel of grace that Paul had already been preaching among the Gentiles. If you want to choose precisely that point for the grace dispensation to begin, you are free to do that of course.
You are aware that James disagree with Peter that the Jews are also under the same gospel right? That council event was only to discuss whether gentiles who are in the church have to follow the Law. As Acts 21 show, the elders and him still regard it as necessary for Jews to be following the Law.
lol, the whole world was concluded as dead to sin not just Paul and Jesus loved us all while we were yet sinners. Saul was walking down the road to Damascus with a letter in his hand giving him permission to arrest those who followed Jesus Christ. Saul did not believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ(denied it at that time),,He was not in the middle of repenting,being baptized,confessing Christ when Jesus Christ appeared to him.
In Matthew 12:32 Jesus stated that in the age thy were in this would not be forgiven nor in the one coming are you saying one ended and another came and it also ended and we are in it? If so you are not MAD/A9D if you are saying this then you are preterit instead. It's your choice though,lol.
lol,And Paul you left out Paul shaving his head and agreeing to make those offerings in the temple to God is he in or out of the BoC like you see the 12?
From your many lols, I see that you are not trying to have a matured debate about our different points of view.
I understand the difference and believe there is a distinction. But since James wrote his Epistle after Acts 9, why did you try to make a case that because he wrote to Jews, he was adding works to faith, whereas here you say the GOG is meant for all?
BIG CONTRADICTION!!
Understand that there are three camps of Lutherans.
1. Liberals (e.g. ELCA)-politically motivated with social agendas.
2a. Those swayed towards the Reformed and Sola Scriptura (e.g. WELS & ELS)
2b. Those swayed towards Rome and High Church.
The last group puts the emphasis on Private Absolution.
Acts is a book of transition from GOK to GOG.
James, like many other Jews, was not aware of the significance of the stoning of Stephen in the change of dispensations. So there is no contradiction that his letter, which was clearly written before the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15, is still based on the GOK.
But I am aware that you are not going to change your mind about this, so lets just agree to disagree.
I always regard debate as learning to understand the other party's viewpoint, why he believe the way he does.
So it's ok to chuck the Epistle of James since it only applies to the pre- Acts 9 Jewish believers?
Poor Holy Spirit if only He knew better...like our contrived systems of theology.
Me too,that's great,, I ask several questions and pointed out several things in my post's to you prior to this one about your viewpoint will you address them? And don't be offended if I include "lol" in my post it is not intended to be an insult but instead a not angry,offended position on my part.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. So it would make no sense to see ourselves as if we don't believe in or participate in sacrifices when he is in fact that Lamb.
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UnderGrace
Guest
The shaving is in respect a Nazarene ceremonial law used as a wow was a shadow in respect to a personal wow. Sort of like the baptism when a person that desires to be a member of the priesthood of believers . John was the last Levite . The ceremony today can be performed today by the hands of all nations. Again a shadow to show something we can be judge. We should be careful if and when taking wows They work as if they were moral laws as a sign to the angels like all ceremonial laws. When the veil was rent the temple lost its usefulness to be used as a copy of the true . We are blessed with the idea of being the temple of God as those who speak a new tongue the gospel . Stones used as metaphors have been replaced with lively stones that do make up the spiritual unseen house of God, the church, His eternal bride.