Jesus is Jehovah? So Jehovah is Son in trinity?

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cgneustar

cgneustar

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#41
Jun 4, 2019
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#41
User46952 said:
Most trinitarians believe that Jesus is Jehovah.
Does it mean that, Johovah is Son in trinity (and not the Father)?
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Yeshuah is not Yehovah. Yehovah was the name of the angel that spoke to Moses, hence,

There the angel Yehovah appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush…
Exodus 3:2

He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us.
Acts 7:38

“Say this to the people of Israel: ‘Yehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name…
Exodus 3:15

Who was a forerunner of a greater name to later be revealed, the name of Yeshuah.
 
T

TM19782017

Active member
#42
Dec 15, 2018
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#42
Didn’t Jesus call the woman that touched him, “Daughter” ?

That implies......................
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#43
Jul 2, 2011
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#43
When I pray, though I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, at the final amen, I am confident to address the Father as Eternal Father Jesus, with no compunction for From th eearly writing in the OT to the NT we are taught God is One.

He has informed us through Moses that He will manifest Himself as He sees fit, not the mind or eyes of mere creatures. I tend to believe by faith what I know will remain a mystery until revealed by the Fasther. So, listen, and learn from God Who is One.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#44
Jan 11, 2013
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#44
cgneustar said:
Yeshuah is not Yehovah. Yehovah was the name of the angel that spoke to Moses, hence,

There the angel Yehovah appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush…
Exodus 3:2

He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us.
Acts 7:38

“Say this to the people of Israel: ‘Yehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name…
Exodus 3:15

Who was a forerunner of a greater name to later be revealed, the name of Yeshuah.
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You leave out verse 14 and part of verse 15.

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (Exo 3:14-15 KJV)

Years later Jesus said to the Jews : - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." (Joh 8:58)
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#45
Jul 2, 2011
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#45
How many times is there reference to "The Angel of the Lord" in the writings?

Angel may be a messenger, usual, but it is also the spirit or the ghost of.

Reread the versions of the rendition of Jesus, Yeshua being seen walking on the water. In one version the disciplewas told it was not Jesus but His Ghost.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#46
Jun 4, 2019
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#46
PS said:
You leave out verse 14 and part of verse 15.

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (Exo 3:14-15 KJV)

Years later Jesus said to the Jews : - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." (Joh 8:58)
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To say "I AM" is simply an affirmation of existence, not an affirmation that Yeshuah is the Father, nor that Yehovah is Yeshuah. That is why Yeshuah said, "before Abraham was, I am", for he was affirming his own existence before Abraham, hence "the glory I had with you before the world began".
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#47
Jul 31, 2013
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#47
cgneustar said:
To say "I AM" is simply an affirmation of existence, not an affirmation that Yeshuah is the Father, nor that Yehovah is Yeshuah. That is why Yeshuah said, "before Abraham was, I am", for he was affirming his own existence before Abraham, hence "the glory I had with you before the world began".
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There is only one being who exists before all things and apart from all things...
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#48
Jan 11, 2013
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#48
cgneustar said:
To say "I AM" is simply an affirmation of existence, not an affirmation that Yeshuah is the Father, nor that Yehovah is Yeshuah. That is why Yeshuah said, "before Abraham was, I am", for he was affirming his own existence before Abraham, hence "the glory I had with you before the world began".
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Then by your own admission Jesus existed before Abraham.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#50
Jun 4, 2019
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#50
PS said:
Then by your own admission Jesus existed before Abraham.
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Indeed he did, because he is the "firstborn of creation", who came into existence in the beginning before anyone else did.
 
PS

PS

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#51
Jan 11, 2013
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#51
cgneustar said:
Indeed he did, because he is the "firstborn of creation", who came into existence in the beginning before anyone else did.
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And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you. (Exo 3:14 MKJV)

GOD declared He is the I AM and Jesus said he is the I AM.

The Pharisees understood what Jesus was saying, but apparently you don't have their understanding.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#52
Jun 4, 2019
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#52
PS said:
And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you. (Exo 3:14 MKJV)

GOD declared He is the I AM and Jesus said he is the I AM.

The Pharisees understood what Jesus was saying, but apparently you don't even have their understanding.
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Because angels are called "gods", because to be made in the representation of God means to be like God. That is why the Messiah is ultimately called "God", not because he is God the Father himself, but because he is the representation of God, in the highest way in creation. And this is why Moses was told "see, I make you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your prophet" and "you shall be like God to him", because of the authority he was given to be the representation of God. You err in your understanding of scripture, which is why you do not understand how an angel can be God, while not be God.
 
PS

PS

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#53
Jan 11, 2013
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#53
cgneustar said:
Because angels are called "gods", because to be made in the representation of God means to be like God. That is why the Messiah is ultimately called "God", not because he is God the Father himself, but because he is the representation of God, in the highest way in creation. And this is why Moses was told "see, I make you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your prophet" and "you shall be like God to him", because of the authority he was given to be the representation of God. You err in your understanding of scripture, which is why you do not understand how an angel can be God, while not be God.
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Lower case 'gods.' The I AM is God.

Jesus is I AM on earth, and he is NOT an angel.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#54
Jul 31, 2013
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#54
cgneustar said:
And that is God, the Father, which is why he is called "Father".
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Yes - and this is said of the Son:

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Also 'by Him all things were created'

So what is the logical conclusion?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#56
Jul 31, 2013
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#56
cgneustar said:
Indeed he did, because he is the "firstborn of creation", who came into existence in the beginning before anyone else did.
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Nothing was created except that it was created by Him and through Him; He is not Himself created - so who does that make Him?

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#57
Jun 4, 2019
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#57
posthuman said:
Yes - and this is said of the Son:

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Also 'by Him all things were created'

So what is the logical conclusion?
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All came to be through him, not "all things", because the Father created the earth by his power, but he created the world through the son in wisdom.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#58
Jun 4, 2019
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#58
posthuman said:
"Everlasting Father" is the name given to the Eternal Son.
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That is a mistranslation. The correct translation should be "mighty aeonial prince", which is what "gibbor ad sar" means in Hebrew.
 
cgneustar

cgneustar

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#59
Jun 4, 2019
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#59
posthuman said:
Nothing was created except that it was created by Him and through Him; He is not Himself created - so who does that make Him?

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Click to expand...

All through him came to be, meaning all life, not all "things". "Things" is not in the original text. This minor detail is important to know, because it demonstrates a distinction of what the son made, and what the Father made, which was bringing his son into existence first, which is why the Messiah is called "the firstborn of creation".
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#60
Jul 31, 2013
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#60
cgneustar said:
All through him came to be, meaning all life, not all "things". "Things" is not in the original text. This minor detail is important to know, because it demonstrates a distinction of what the son made, and what the Father made, which was bringing his son into existence first, which is why the Messiah is called "the firstborn of creation".
Click to expand...
John 1:3
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

visible or invisible in heaven or on earth

Hebrews 7:3
having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God
 
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