Does salvation require repentance and perseverance?
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Job 2
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Sorry Cap'n! That ain't hap'nin! I can't and I won't deny this!
It only "seems/feels" like I am attacking those who are against it. But, I'm not! I'm attacking "the adversary." The one who has deceived the whole world.
IOW? The one who has caused believers and unbelievers alike to "own" it!
Although, it's not for us to know when Christ will be sent back. Yet? Believers should be "behooved" in "knowing" or to make themselves aware of "the season."
Trust me, when I say this brother.
Tis the season!
The "gift?" Is God's grace! It leads one, or should lead one to eternal life!
But?
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
As the way becomes narrower? This is where God's Grace is NOT so abundant! "This", is what "appears" in the "eyes of men" (as taught by traditions of man), as one earning/maintaining one's salvation. "This" is also the when and where some "children of Israel," began crying and complaining that Moses had led them out of slavery and bondage in Egypt, into the wilderness under false pretenses!
I can't make, nor force anyone, in seeing this is ALL part of God's "thinning the herd", so to speak. But? It IS!
In being brutally frankful and honest? It's very hard for me in accepting this! Yet, I'm shown every day, that this is indeed the case.
As Jesus said: "My Kingdom is not of THIS world/planet (age)." But? When He is allowed to come back and be given this planet as His Kingdom? It SHALL BE of/IN this world/planet! Same world/planet! Different earth/planet (and) heaven age!
Until then? You keep right on "preserving" the saints? And, I'll keep on "persevering" with the saints.
This is why we don't, and can't "see" "eye to eye!"
Another reason "we" me and you argue over matters such as this? Is mostly on you, sir!
For I know I'm not going to persuade you! You've made that ABUNDANTLY clear to me!
Perhaps, I should be thanking you, for your "relentless" pursuits in stalking me, for the cause of persecuting me for my testimonying's.
And, this being a "world wide" venue? I have been "commisioned" in giving this testimony with joyfulness in the telling other believers in this world wide stage (so to speak), that have already, or are realizing that there IS more then milk to be had (is that all there is?)! And, they are not alone, nor are they doing wrongly in questioning themselves, and others concerning this. And? They are only going to be fed the "very basics" concerning, not only Christ's Church, but God's "Holy Priesthood" as well!
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be "priests of God" AND of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Ya see, EG? (A) man cannot "teach" this! As it is folly to him! (hence, traditions of man) This occurs after God calls one! And, one answers "the call!" As for me? After I answered the call? God, in Christ humorously asked me: "Aunt Jemima, what took you so long?"
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Sorry Cap'n! That ain't hap'nin! I can't and I won't deny this!
It only "seems/feels" like I am attacking those who are against it. But, I'm not! I'm attacking "the adversary." The one who has deceived the whole world.
IOW? The one who has caused believers and unbelievers alike to "own" it!
Although, it's not for us to know when Christ will be sent back. Yet? Believers should be "behooved" in "knowing" or to make themselves aware of "the season."
Trust me, when I say this brother.
Tis the season!
The "gift?" Is God's grace! It leads one, or should lead one to eternal life!
But?
Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
As the way becomes narrower? This is where God's Grace is NOT so abundant! "This", is what "appears" in the "eyes of men" (as taught by traditions of man), as one earning/maintaining one's salvation. "This" is also the when and where some "children of Israel," began crying and complaining that Moses had led them out of slavery and bondage in Egypt, into the wilderness under false pretenses!
I can't make, nor force anyone, in seeing this is ALL part of God's "thinning the herd", so to speak. But? It IS!
In being brutally frankful and honest? It's very hard for me in accepting this! Yet, I'm shown every day, that this is indeed the case.
As Jesus said: "My Kingdom is not of THIS world/planet (age)." But? When He is allowed to come back and be given this planet as His Kingdom? It SHALL BE of/IN this world/planet! Same world/planet! Different earth/planet (and) heaven age!
Until then? You keep right on "preserving" the saints? And, I'll keep on "persevering" with the saints.
This is why we don't, and can't "see" "eye to eye!"
Another reason "we" me and you argue over matters such as this? Is mostly on you, sir!
For I know I'm not going to persuade you! You've made that ABUNDANTLY clear to me!
Perhaps, I should be thanking you, for your "relentless" pursuits in stalking me, for the cause of persecuting me for my testimonying's.
And, this being a "world wide" venue? I have been "commisioned" in giving this testimony with joyfulness in the telling other believers in this world wide stage (so to speak), that have already, or are realizing that there IS more then milk to be had (is that all there is?)! And, they are not alone, nor are they doing wrongly in questioning themselves, and others concerning this. And? They are only going to be fed the "very basics" concerning, not only Christ's Church, but God's "Holy Priesthood" as well!
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be "priests of God" AND of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Ya see, EG? (A) man cannot "teach" this! As it is folly to him! (hence, traditions of man) This occurs after God calls one! And, one answers "the call!" As for me? After I answered the call? God, in Christ humorously asked me: "Aunt Jemima, what took you so long?"
7
John 15 is ALL about that!
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the gardener. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He trims so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I will abide in you. The branch cannot itself produce fruit, unless it abides on the vine. Likewise, you cannot produce fruit unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for apart from Me, you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and is dried up. Such branches are picked up and thrown into the fire and burned.
7 “If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it shall be done for you. 8 In this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples.”
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the gardener. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He trims so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I will abide in you. The branch cannot itself produce fruit, unless it abides on the vine. Likewise, you cannot produce fruit unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for apart from Me, you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and is dried up. Such branches are picked up and thrown into the fire and burned.
7 “If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it shall be done for you. 8 In this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples.”
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E
Then feel free
You go tell God why you demand he give you salvation because of your works. You go to God and puff yourself up. Telling God all these things you did in his name. You go to God and hand him your self righteousness, thinking he will accept it as payment.
I will get on my knees, unable to look up to God. And when he asks why I should let him in, I will state the truth, He should not, because I am unworthy. But you promised you would give me eternal life if I entrusted my eternity to you, and I did.
And news flash. When you replace grace with your works. You curse God (and the cross)
And you do, and you are denying that.
You go tell God why you demand he give you salvation because of your works. You go to God and puff yourself up. Telling God all these things you did in his name. You go to God and hand him your self righteousness, thinking he will accept it as payment.
I will get on my knees, unable to look up to God. And when he asks why I should let him in, I will state the truth, He should not, because I am unworthy. But you promised you would give me eternal life if I entrusted my eternity to you, and I did.
And news flash. When you replace grace with your works. You curse God (and the cross)
And you do, and you are denying that.
I don't think Job was crucified for the sins of the elect.
Seeing the faith of Christ that worked in Job was not of Job lest any man boast. But rather the confidence that comes from Christ working in us as a imputed righteousness .
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6
When men deny Christ as the foolish faithless in Galatians 3 or Peter in Mathew 16...... Peter get behind me Satan you offend me not defend me. We have the confidence to the end he could never deny us .
As many as the father gave to the Son they will come. Kicking, scratching biting whatever the work of Christ creating new creatures it takes, that does work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure
2 Timothy 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
Job would never say Chris is divided and Job is of one mind always doing whatsoever his soul pleases making his own heart soft
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:J ob 23:13 16
We compare the spiritual understanding of one parable above to another found in Philippian 2:12-13 Jesus says no murmuring.
God who has a great memory will not forget the work we like Job offer towards his name.
He faithfully works in all to both will and do. Again he cannot deny himself..... If he has begun the good work in us he is not a quitter
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:Philipian 2:12-13
Seeing the faith of Christ that worked in Job was not of Job lest any man boast. But rather the confidence that comes from Christ working in us as a imputed righteousness .
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6
When men deny Christ as the foolish faithless in Galatians 3 or Peter in Mathew 16...... Peter get behind me Satan you offend me not defend me. We have the confidence to the end he could never deny us .
As many as the father gave to the Son they will come. Kicking, scratching biting whatever the work of Christ creating new creatures it takes, that does work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure
2 Timothy 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
Job would never say Chris is divided and Job is of one mind always doing whatsoever his soul pleases making his own heart soft
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:J ob 23:13 16
We compare the spiritual understanding of one parable above to another found in Philippian 2:12-13 Jesus says no murmuring.
God who has a great memory will not forget the work we like Job offer towards his name.
He faithfully works in all to both will and do. Again he cannot deny himself..... If he has begun the good work in us he is not a quitter
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:Philipian 2:12-13
That's just the "thing", man!
He, God, Christ, the gift of the Holy Spirit? Is at ALL TIMES striving to perform His good work in (a) man (woman). It's the person themselves that keep thwarting His "good work". Why? The largest reason being, is because they don't believe it's God, or, one's of God, performing it it. Or, they can't "see" God, or Christ performing His "good work", in that way! So, relying on their own understanding? They flat out resist! The "effect" this has? It causes "dull hearing", and "dim seeing."
When God sez "Stand up, like a man!"? They "tuck tail", and squat to pee!
Another reason? The tradition of man teaching that Jesus ABOLISHED "the Law!" Which in Christ's own words, flat out stated, He wasn't sent (didn't come) to "change" the law, but rather fulfill the law!
He, God, Christ, the gift of the Holy Spirit? Is at ALL TIMES striving to perform His good work in (a) man (woman). It's the person themselves that keep thwarting His "good work". Why? The largest reason being, is because they don't believe it's God, or, one's of God, performing it it. Or, they can't "see" God, or Christ performing His "good work", in that way! So, relying on their own understanding? They flat out resist! The "effect" this has? It causes "dull hearing", and "dim seeing."
When God sez "Stand up, like a man!"? They "tuck tail", and squat to pee!
Another reason? The tradition of man teaching that Jesus ABOLISHED "the Law!" Which in Christ's own words, flat out stated, He wasn't sent (didn't come) to "change" the law, but rather fulfill the law!
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I trust that the Holy Spirit delivered to Peter the truth. Peter is speaking to those like the tax collector. He's preaching to people who once believed in Jesus but have gradually returned to their old ways without really noticing enough. I minister to many who have forgotten they were forgiven of sins, yet took them back up little by little, some plunging back in once taught they are guaranteed salvation no matter how the rest of their lives turn out.
Your comments totally dispute what Peter wrote. There were no valid excuses made that a person was not really saved. Yet, the person assumed not really saved might quote the Roman Road of salvation better than the "approved Christian" saved since age 5, and claim they really go by that. The acid test is who you walk with the rest of your life, Jesus, or Satan. None can fellowship with the Devil and enter by way of Jesus. A cop can't be a suitable cop while an approved member of MS13.
Your comments totally dispute what Peter wrote. There were no valid excuses made that a person was not really saved. Yet, the person assumed not really saved might quote the Roman Road of salvation better than the "approved Christian" saved since age 5, and claim they really go by that. The acid test is who you walk with the rest of your life, Jesus, or Satan. None can fellowship with the Devil and enter by way of Jesus. A cop can't be a suitable cop while an approved member of MS13.
Hi Beckworth, so, salvation by imitation? How would that work exactly, especially if you consider what verses like this one have to say about non-believers .. 1 Corinthians 2:14?
The thing is, my question wasn't actually about how a non-believer can become a Christian, it was concerned with how a Christian can know that they have really and truly come to possess eternal life .. e.g. John 5:24, how they can have assurance that they are who they claim to be (that they have truly been "born again", made "His workmanship", made a wholly "new creature" in Christ).
As the Lord commanded us to do through the pen of the Apostle Paul:
The question is, how do we do that? How do we test or examine ourselves to make sure that we are truly in the faith? What evidence do we look for to demonstrate/validate/justify our claim, and prove that what we believe about ourselves is true?
How would you go about proving that you are the Christian that you claim to be to me, for instance
Thanks!
~Deut
The thing is, my question wasn't actually about how a non-believer can become a Christian, it was concerned with how a Christian can know that they have really and truly come to possess eternal life .. e.g. John 5:24, how they can have assurance that they are who they claim to be (that they have truly been "born again", made "His workmanship", made a wholly "new creature" in Christ).
As the Lord commanded us to do through the pen of the Apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 13
5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?
The question is, how do we do that? How do we test or examine ourselves to make sure that we are truly in the faith? What evidence do we look for to demonstrate/validate/justify our claim, and prove that what we believe about ourselves is true?
How would you go about proving that you are the Christian that you claim to be to me, for instance
Thanks!
~Deut
1John 5:13 says; These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
It would seem if one reads the verses prior to the , “these things” statement by John, (v.1-12) that there is revealed a few more clues that describe what some proclaim, by faith.
A faith, might I add, that buries the the past
Guarantees the future
And Transforms the present
It would seem if one reads the verses prior to the , “these things” statement by John, (v.1-12) that there is revealed a few more clues that describe what some proclaim, by faith.
A faith, might I add, that buries the the past
Guarantees the future
And Transforms the present
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Lol. If I can lose salvation. I am not really saved. I am what you call an unsecure relationship. Where my spouse (in this case christ) can leave at any time, I am not only forced to live a miserable life trying my best to please him knowing he can walk away. But i have to also go outside of him and set up to make sure my future is secure. In case he does leave.
If you think you have hope in an insecure salvation. You are misled.
If you think you have hope in an insecure salvation. You are misled.
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Yep he was. But that is not applicable to your theory.
Lucifer was not lost. Unable to save himself. Then have Jesus pay for his sins. And offer to you ETERNAL life if you just get on your knees and trust him.
Unlike the god you want him to be. God does not go back on his promises. He makes them, He paid for them, and he keeps them.
Lucifer was not lost. Unable to save himself. Then have Jesus pay for his sins. And offer to you ETERNAL life if you just get on your knees and trust him.
Unlike the god you want him to be. God does not go back on his promises. He makes them, He paid for them, and he keeps them.