Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[crossnote]

I do not have to think again because I understand the English language and obviously somebody who drew up a nice little graphic on wikimedia does not
Prefix "a" just means, without, lacking or not

I know that. Look up the classical definition of Amillennialism and you will find that cartoon chart quite accurate. The 'a' stands for no literal 1000 years but it doesn't preclude a 'spiritual Millennium of an indefinite time period.

 

[Guojing]

Again that is twisting things. We are saved by faith alone (If you don't believe that, Rome has a position for you).
Secondly, those who are saved by faith alone do good works, not them, but the Spirit of God working in and through them.(1Cor 15:10)
Thirdly, we are saved by faith alone, but God never leaves alone those who are His.
Fourthly, I hope you don't twist Scripture like you twist the words of others.

So your answer to my question is a yes or no? State clearly please.

 

[corazondeldei]

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 8:1-3
...We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. BUT THE MAN WHO LOVES GOD IS KNOWN BY GOD.

NIV1984 1 John 5:3
THIS IS ĹOVE FOR GOD: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

NIV1984 Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So neither premil,amil or postmil is essential. I'll cross the bridge when I get there. Better be working for the edification and building up of the body of Christ than worrying too much about the future or exalting oneself over another in terms of knowledge about something.

...Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

NIV1984 Ephesians 4:14-16
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

 

[crossnote]

So your answer to my question is a yes or no? State clearly please.

Which question? You have asked many, why?

 

[Guojing]

Which question? You have asked many, why?

If Rahab believed God by faith, but chose not to hide the spies, do you believe she would still have been saved?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

 

[garee]

I find it strange that, for all those who really believed that Rahab was saved only because she believe in God and not because of her works in hiding the spies, why can't they give an unequivocal "Yes" to my question?

My perspective, based on Hebrews 11 and James 2, is a clear No. Rahab had to show her faith by her works, in order to be fully justified before God. That forms the basis for my belief that we Gentiles under the grace dispensation are truly blessed and are envied by all these OT saints, because we have Jesus completing all the works required on our behalf.

It is the same for those who will be saved during the Tribulation after the dispensation of grace is over. They have to believe in God (faith) and they have to deny the mark of the beast (works). in order to be fully justified before God. (Rev 14:11)

Hi thanks for the reply. While I am not sure why you see that differently than some. we must remember the righteousness of Christ is a imputed work . Neither Rehab or Abraham could have it in respect to their own selves but reveals it was the work of Christ's faith working in them yoked with them to both will (the plan) and do, execute the good purpose of God

The first verse in James 2 commands us in that way not to have the faith of Christ that works in all believers as it did with Rehab and Abraham. Not with respect to their flesh and blood. But the unseen spirit that did perform that which God do appoint to them he made their hearts soft .

If the commandment at the beginning of the chapter is ignored and we would attribute the work to Abraham or Rehab, Then we have in effect blasphemed the Holy name by which we are called heavenward violating the first commandment.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are not answering my question. Suppose Rahab behaved like us, believe only but did not hide any spies, would she be considered saved?

We had the privilege of believing in Jesus's finished work. For her, she could not have done so since Jesus has not died on the cross yet. Could she have been justified by merely believing in the God of the Jews?

Your looking at it all wrong. It is the fact she had faith to begin with that she did the works. If She did not have faith, she never would have been saved to begin with, and never would have hid the spies

Faith is the power. Not the work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There was no compromise, they had different roles and purposes.
They both preached the same Gospel......if you read the book of James properly it is clearly evident.

Amen,

They had two different audience with 2 different issues. Which is why it APPEARS they contradict. When they do not.

They must be read in context.

 

[garee]

If Rahab believed God by faith, but chose not to hide the spies, do you believe she would still have been saved?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

She belived God according to His faith that wored in her .Same way with anyone .

Her lany any believer saved had to do with Christ's three day labor of love or "work of faith" . Not of our own .Previously having no faith.

Are you saying his grace that works in us falls short of the glory of God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you believe they were preaching the same gospel, why the need to separate the ministries? And why would James raised the point that paul needed to participate in Jewish customs in acts 21, if both agreed that the law of Moses has now passed?

Wow man. Who told you this stuff?

Paul was sent to the gentiles. James was an apostle to the jews. Thats why they had different ministries.

Your issue is contextual.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then when I ask you whether rahab would have been saved if she just believe but chose not to hide the spies for fear of discovery, what is your answer?

Rahab ONLY would not have been saved if she did not have faith. WHat she did because of her faith had NO BEARING on her salvation.

She did the work BECAUSE she was saved, Not in order to GET SAVED.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are addressing the point whether James and Paul are truly in complete agreement.

They were
Paul fought against legalism

James fought against licentiousness

They both p[reach salvation by Grace through faith.

If they were apposed and thought different gospel. One of them was wrong.. I doubt God would have put the wrong who was wrong in scripture

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If anyone can read Acts 21 and claim that James and Paul are in perfect agreement, I rest my case.

There is nothing contradictory in Acts 21/

You have been misled.

 

[garee]

Your looking at it all wrong. It is the fact she had faith to begin with that she did the works. If She did not have faith, she never would have been saved to begin with, and never would have hid the spies

Faith is the power. Not the work.

Can't separate faith from work. Its like 4th July fireworks. Not fire no workie.No fire no sparklers

Christ's Faith is the power that works in us to both will and do His god pleasure.

Its why its is referred to as a work of faith or labor of love..

He and the father working together in prefect he harmony and submissiveness .And therefore we have the peace of God that surpasses all understanding. Faithfully he willed to do it as a work of faith
According to Job he perform the things appointed to us as a imputed righteousness . same lesson as (Philippians 2:12) God the cause new creatures the effect,

Why would we want to accredit that work to our own selves, equaling Blasphemy ?

 

[Guojing]

Your looking at it all wrong. It is the fact she had faith to begin with that she did the works. If She did not have faith, she never would have been saved to begin with, and never would have hid the spies

Faith is the power. Not the work.

So is your answer a Yes? I believe Rahab had the faith, we are both in agreement here.

I am asking whether it would have been enough to save her, if she did no works after she believed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can't separate faith from work. Its like 4th July fireworks. Not fire no workie.No fire no sparklers

Christ's Faith is the power that works in us to both will and do His god pleasure.

Its why its is referred to as a work of faith or labor of love..

He and the father working together in prefect he harmony and submissiveness .And therefore we have the peace of God that surpasses all understanding. Faithfully he willed to do it as a work of faith
According to Job he perform the things appointed to us as a imputed righteousness . same lesson as (Philippians 2:12) God the cause new creatures the effect,

Why would we want to accredit that work to our own selves, equaling Blasphemy ?

Yes you can, When it comes to salvation.

Because we are saved FIRST by Faith alone in the WORK of God.

And our own WORKS are a BYPRODUCT of that salvation.

When you say WORKS must come first. Your saying salvation is not a grace gift, but an earned reward. And are boasting of saving yourself by your own works.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again that is twisting things. We are saved by faith alone (If you don't believe that, Rome has a position for you).
Secondly, those who are saved by faith alone do good works, not them, but the Spirit of God working in and through them.(1Cor 15:10)
Thirdly, we are saved by faith alone, but God never leaves alone those who are His.
Fourthly, I hope you don't twist Scripture like you twist the words of others.

Oh he does.........quite regularly.......Imagine a true believer stating that JAMES disagrees with PAUL and then saying GOD placed JAMES right after PAUL to correct him.....the idiocy of that goes well beyond cognitive reasoning.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So is your answer a Yes? I believe Rahab had the faith, we are both in agreement here.

I am asking whether it would have been enough to save her, if she did no works after she believed.

Your asking the wrong question.

Faith works. So she woudl never have NOT done that if she had true saving faith

But if she only believed (even demons believe) then she had no faith to begin with, and would not be saved because she had NO FAITH, not because she did not work.

 

[Guojing]

Your asking the wrong question.

Faith works. So she woudl never have NOT done that if she had true saving faith

But if she only believed (even demons believe) then she had no faith to begin with, and would not be saved because she had NO FAITH, not because she did not work.

Ahh the famous circular argument.

You only need to believe to be saved, no works required.
But if you don't show works after you are saved, you are not really saved, because it shows you don't really believe.
Yet, you only need to believe to be saved, no works required.

Okay, I understand why you guys are so unwilling to give an unequivocal yes or no.

 

[dcontroversal]

Attn: Amillennialists.

If we are in the Millennium now, since the Cross, how come we are not seeing this?...

No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed. (Isa 65:20)

Infants die left and right, and who lasts to 100 years old unless they are aged and decrepit hoping to die?

What about LAMBS and LIONS laying together or KIDS playing with deadly snakes and not being hurt or LIONS eating straw like the OX......it is 100% pure ignorance to say we are in the Millennium right now.......and even more idiotic to say the end came and went in 70 A.D.