Are you operating in Faith that God doesn’t recognize?

[MessageOfTheCross]

“11 But when Peter was come to Antioch (Antioch Syria, the city used by God to spearhead world Evangelism), I withstood him to the face (means Paul openly opposed and reproved him, even though Peter was the eldest), because he was to be blamed (for abandoning the Cross and resorting to Law).” Gal. 2:11

God only recognizes Faith in Christ Jesus and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., “The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.” Romans 4:5

 

[Dino246]

In the Bible, God recognizes faith that was unaware of the cross: in Abraham, Naaman, David, Elijah, Barak, Jephthah, Samson, Samuel, and many others.

We are only righteous through faith in Jesus Christ, Who died on the cross, but you have elevated the cross above its rightful place and made it an idol. Or, perhaps, you have uncritically embraced Jimmy Swaggart's idolatry and thereby committed the same error.

Recognize that the cross (NOT capitalized!) is an encompassing metaphor for the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it is a wooden implement of execution. Put your faith in Jesus Christ, and when you use the metaphor of the cross, remember that it is nothing without Christ.

 

[posthuman]

“But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed” Gal. 2:11

fixed it for you.

do you think Peter didn't have faith in Christ & His work?
you only quoted a small portion of the

wait, i'm sorry, not you

**fixed it for Jimmy Swaggart**

Jimmy Swaggart only quoted a small portion of the narrative of Galatians here, but the greater context i think presents a picture of Peter certainly being a genuine believer, however not acting in the best way that he should have, in this particular matter. this isn't questioning Peter's faith but correcting Peter where he was acting wrongly -- perhaps not having thought things through, and from the right perspective. this is clear to me because Paul says that he argued with him telling him that he was acting like a Jew at that moment even tho he lived like a Jew when these other men from James weren't around, and Paul calls that hypocrisy and says it originated with fear ((vv. 12-13))

so does Jimmy Swaggart think Peter didn't have faith in Christ & His work?
why does Jimmy Swaggart present this as though the Bible is saying God didn't recognize Peter's faith? Paul doesn't say anything about Peter's faith. he calls him out for being hypocritical and inconsistent, not faithless. he just tells him he's acting dumb, not that he's an unbeliever. not that his faith is misplaced. not that he is faithless.

 

[posthuman]

i kinda think Jimmy Swaggart is engaged in eisegesis here.

like, he thought of something he wanted to say, then quote-mined the Bible for something that would kinda fit with what he had already determined to say.
because Galatians 2:11 is definitely not saying anything about God not recognizing a particular flavor of faith.

what i am saying is, if you just started with Galatians 2:11, you would not arrive at the OP title or the statement at the bottom of post #1
so it looks to me like Jimmy Swaggart already had an agenda when he opened up his Bible, instead of opening up his Bible and letting it define his agenda for him.

does anyone else get that sense? i've noticed it in more than one of these copy-paste threads, and honestly, in a whole lot of preaching.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

“DISCIPLESHIP - Luke 14:25-27

25 And there went great multitudes with Him (proclaims Him having left the home of this Pharisee, and now continuing His journey toward Jerusalem): and He turned, and said unto them (He was anxious now, at the end, clearly to make it known to all these multitudes what serving Him really signified),

26 If any man come to Me (no exceptions), and hate (prefer) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also (no affection, however strong, must be permitted to compete with or displace Christ), he cannot be My Disciple (once again, no exceptions!).”

“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).”

DISCIPLESHIP - Luke 9:23-24

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]). Luke 9:24

As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the Cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus also said:

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" [John 6:66]. It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

(Access granted - Mark 15:38, Hebrews 9:3) - The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.

JSM

 

[Dino246]

“DISCIPLESHIP - Luke 14:27
“27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).”

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]). Luke 9:24

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" [John 6:66]. It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

There is so much eisegesis in this commentary that it has ceased to be of any value. This isn't Scripture any more.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The modern Church no longer believes the answer is found in the Cross of Christ, and only in the Cross of Christ. In place of the Cross, it has substituted humanistic psychology. Never mind that such wisdom is “earthly, sensual, and devilish” (James 3:15). They have opted for that in place of the “wisdom that is from above,” which is “first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy” (James 3:17).

To forsake the Cross is to forsake Christ. They cannot be separated.

Most Christians are practicing Salvation by "Faith," and Sanctification by "self (lukewarm)?" The Righteousness of God is imputed to a person only on the basis of Faith in Christ, and what Christ has done at the Cross. Romans 4:5

The Believer must stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious (It is Jesus Christ life that brings victory - not ours). That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13)

This is the only way we receive the life of Jesus Christ to manifest in our lives so that we receive all the benefits of this Resurrection life (Luke 9:23).

JESUS SAID, "YOU CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT ME (John 15:5)! EVERYTHING THAT MAN DOES DIES. EVERYTHING THAT JESUS DOES IS BLESSED, AND LIVES, AND HAS LIFE (Psalm 1:3)!

If the Believer does not understand this, all scriptures become enticing words to the flesh, that will be attempted by the flesh to perform (Romans 8:2-3, 1 Cor. 2:4). The Believer now becomes a transgressor (Gal. 2:18). Under Grace, the Holy Spirit carries out the will of God in the Believer (Romans 8:2). Under the Law, the flesh (your own ability) carry's out the Law of God. Under Grace, the New Covenant, if Christ is a Law keeper, than I am a Law keeper because I am in Him (Romans 6:3-5, Gal. 2:20-21).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

It is by "Grace" through "Faith" that the "Temple" is built. The "Temple was to be built under Solomon; not the sound of a hammer, not the sound of a tool, i.e., not one sound of mans labor.

The only thing that God will accept from any Believer is "Faith" in His Son Jesus and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.

Because the Believer is in Christ, all commandments are kept by the Holy Spirit which is impossible for any Believer to keep. If Christ is a law-keeper than the Believer is a law-keeper.

Again It is by "Grace" through "Faith" that the "Temple" is built. Not by labor - not by performance - not by Christian disciplines.

We must not stop the "Golden Oil" coming from the "Bowl of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit" that has seven pipes leading into our earthly vessels - both the will and to do. In this “sevenfold fullness,” we find all the “help” that we need in order to live this life and to be what we ought to be in the Lord ((Isa. 11:1-2, Zechariah 4:1-14, Jn. 14:16-18, Rev. 5:6).

Tragically, the modern Church seeks to live for God without the help of this “sevenfold fullness.” Even though the Holy Spirit most definitely resides in the heart and life of every single Believer, irrespective of the spiritual condition of such a Believer, still, what He can do is only potential. In other words, His help is not automatic.

But every single Believer can have this “sevenfold fullness” if the Believer will place his faith absolutely and exclusively in the Cross. The Holy Spirit always works within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. The Cross ever being the Object of our Faith, then the Holy Spirit will work mightily on our behalf, giving us the benefit of “His sevenfold fullness,” but only if our faith is properly placed in Christ and the Cross. He tells us this in Romans 8:2.”

His sevenfold fullness.” Those attributes are: “Spirit, Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Might, Knowledge, and Fear.”

Brother Donnie Swaggart

 

[posthuman]

There is so much eisegesis in this commentary that it has ceased to be of any value. This isn't Scripture any more.

is @MessageOfTheCross a real person or a bot run by the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries™ Corporation?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

is @MessageOfTheCross a real person or a bot run by the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries™ Corporation?

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

posthuman, posthuman, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Why go here!

 

[Dino246]

is @MessageOfTheCross a real person or a bot run by the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries™ Corporation?

Good question. I think he's a person, but I've only seen him actually respond to questions once. He has also tried to slam me a few times for challenging his idolatry, and probably has me on Ignore now. I honestly wonder sometimes whether he is capable of thinking for himself.

 

[Dino246]

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

posthuman, posthuman, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Bahahaha!

Dude, you ain't Jesus! Get off your high horse.

 

[posthuman]

is @MessageOfTheCross a real person or a bot run by the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries™ Corporation?

i find it really disturbing that i hardly read anything this guy writes. i mean, i do, in the threads i reply to - but i skim.
i know immediately it is all copy-pasted from a christian-like mega-corporation and i feel like i'm eating plastic when i do read it.

it's kind of like when you call some customer service number and reach a chatbot. it's really hard to speak to it like it's a real person.
or you're talking to a JW on your porch and everything they say has been rehearsed 100 times; you get the distinct impression that they aren't really using their brain when they speak, just regurgitating a pre-arranged if-then script.

i'm not even sure that's wrong of me, because if this MOTC is a real person, i feel like they should start thinking for themselves, and interacting with us like we're real people, and more than that, like we're Christians, who believe the scripture, who believe and put all our hope in the work of the Risen Lord & Christ. we didn't join CC and sick around the BDF for years because we are after milk.

i hate to give the impression that i'm rejecting the thing Jesus did at the cross -- i reckon anyone who knows my conversation here knows i'm not -- but good grief, how about just post a link to JSM.com and be done with it. or at least, link whatever email he or she has gotten and tell us a little bit about what they think of it.

sure, i can just skip the thread and not bother. but if MOTC is a real person, what am i doing if i ignore them completely? loving them? trow not! yet what are they doing to us with all this. & it's not something new. it's the user's entire history. i get that, probably ((assuming it's an actual person)) they attended a Jimmy Swaggart show and were moved to belief. and fandom. and devotion. to what tho? to JSM.org? i mean, they say the words, but the words all come from one source.

maybe we're just picky, Dino. *shrug*
maybe, but i'm gonna take a chance and just be real here. i'm just going to be real, and go ahead and post this rambling muse.

 

[posthuman]

probably has me on Ignore now

lol maybe so, he didn't mention you in post #10

looks like i'll be joining you there soon enough

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

lol maybe so, he didn't mention you in post #10

looks like i'll be joining you there soon enough

There is hope for you. Do you believe that you were on the Cross with Christ when He died for our sins (Gal. 2:20)?

 

[dcontroversal]

i kinda think Jimmy Swaggart is engaged in eisegesis here.

like, he thought of something he wanted to say, then quote-mined the Bible for something that would kinda fit with what he had already determined to say.
because Galatians 2:11 is definitely not saying anything about God not recognizing a particular flavor of faith.

what i am saying is, if you just started with Galatians 2:11, you would not arrive at the OP title or the statement at the bottom of post #1
so it looks to me like Jimmy Swaggart already had an agenda when he opened up his Bible, instead of opening up his Bible and letting it define his agenda for him.

does anyone else get that sense? i've noticed it in more than one of these copy-paste threads, and honestly, in a whole lot of preaching.

95% of people do exactly that.......get some grandiose idea and then hang a verse or two on it that sounds good......totally out of context while trying to make a point that does not even exist

 

[dcontroversal]

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

posthuman, posthuman, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Why go here!

View attachment 198897

WOW.......take scripture JESUS said about himself and apply it to yourself....talk about going off the rails........MAN........this take the cake for the most recent post that makes the ignorant list

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 26:14

posthuman, posthuman, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Why go here!

View attachment 198897

“14 And when we were all fallen to the earth (the Power of God was so strong that Paul and all his associates with him fell to the ground), I heard a Voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue (actually speaks of all hearing the Voice, but only Paul knowing what was said [Acts 9:7]), Saul, Saul (his Hebrew name), why do you persecute Me? (This proclaims the fact that when we persecute those who belong to the Lord we, in fact, persecute the Lord.) it is hard for you to kick against the pricks (proclaims a common idiom of that day and even now; in other words, you will only succeed in hurting yourself; you will not stop the Plan of God).” Acts 26:14

JSM

 

[Dino246]

“14 And when we were all fallen to the earth (the Power of God was so strong that Paul and all his associates with him fell to the ground), I heard a Voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue (actually speaks of all hearing the Voice, but only Paul knowing what was said [Acts 9:7]), Saul, Saul (his Hebrew name), why do you persecute Me? (This proclaims the fact that when we persecute those who belong to the Lord we, in fact, persecute the Lord.) it is hard for you to kick against the pricks (proclaims a common idiom of that day and even now; in other words, you will only succeed in hurting yourself; you will not stop the Plan of God).” Acts 26:14

JSM

You aren't being persecuted.

You are being questioned and challenged, because the material you post is not your own, and because it is not consistent with the truth of Scripture.

Perhaps you should stop being a mouthpiece for Jimmy Swaggart and start interacting with people like a real human being.

 

[MattforJesus]

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles).

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

This was the problem with Peter, not that he abandoned the cross, and resorted to law, but he would abandon the Gentile saints, and eat with the circumcision for he feared them.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Which it appears as if Peter did not understand that salvation is also for the Gentiles when he first started preaching to the circumcision, so maybe the circumcision did not understand it either.

But Peter understood salvation is for the Gentiles when Paul got in his face.