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Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?
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kaylagrl
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Paul was an apostle to who ever heard the gospel and believed God. The word apostle with no other meaning added which could change the authors intent is "sent one." Apostles are sent with that which can quicken a persons soul . Abel would appear to be the first apostle/ martyr .
He stated many times in his letters to the Gentile churches, as well as in Acts, that HE is the apostle to the Gentiles.
How did you come to believe that I am saying anything that contradicts Romans 11:13. I'm addressing the confusion regarding the identity of the Gentiles never once denying who Paul says he is. Asking me that is like me asking you "Is Paul not an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin?". You have successfully avoided the discussion. The question is "WHO are the Gentiles?" Are they "other nations" that ye claim them to be or are they the lost remnant scattered sheep of Israel that Paul continually references in his letters? Because if Paul is not preaching to them, then he is not continuing the ministry of Jesus which is stated in Matthew 15:24:
Is Paul discontinuing the ministry of Jesus and preaching to whomever he wants? God Forbid. One thing is for certain. Paul is preaching to a very specific audience the Gentiles. His letters are targeting specific people in specific regions. He continually refers to these people as his brethren which we know his brethren are his kinsmen
I ask ye, the gospel that Paul is ministering is the Gospel of what God? Is it not God of Israel as quoted in Luke 1:68
Which are the Israelites. Speaking of which, you should ask yourself how many times does the bible reference God of Israel? How many times does it reference God of Other Nations?
What are the things pertain to God? Is it not his people (the Israelites) Is it not his laws? Is it not his covenants? Is it not his glory? Is it not his people serving him? Is it not his promises to his people (salvation, repentance, forgiveness of sins)? You know the things Paul referenced in Romans 9:4
By the way, belief is not the same as the truth. It is possible for a collection of people to believe things contrary to the truth. That is why Paul said
Are you saying your view of the word gentile holds up in Isaiah 42:5,6?
[5] ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
[6] I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Paul's desire and prayer is that the physical Israelites who do not believe would believe on the Messiah.
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kaylagrl
Guest
It don't think it means exclusively . The word apostles mean sent one with no other meaning attached. . Prophecy is what he is sent with . It can do the work of quickening.
If a unbelieving Jew hears the gospel coming from Paul its not like it would of been without effect because it came from a Jew used for some reason to bring it to the gentiles alone . . Interestingly even as to why the Holy Spirit gave that kind of example. Seeing he is no respecter of flesh. Most likely that Paul was a missionary on the road again and again and visited regions where less people understood the Hebrew langauage.
I would not say that God's plan for the Jews was set aside, for there were and still are Jews being saved. I think it is more accurate to say "God's plan for Israel as a nation was temporarily set aside" not jews individually.
How should one interpret verse four? As solely Paul's desire or wish? or was he making a true statement there? Should I reveal again that it is true as I did earlier?
The real question is are the Jews living in Israel the real Jews? Because if they're not then Revelation 2:9 and Revelation 3:9 say something regarding those who say they are Jews but are not:
If you read Romans Chapters 9-11 as one block and interpret it in it's own context, it all becomes clear as to what Paul is saying. God has not cast off Israel. There are a remnant that are saved and the rest are blinded, but one day that blindness in part will be removed. This is our hope and our confidence.
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kaylagrl
Guest
They are the real Jews. Hitler believed they were and murdered over 6 million of them. They've been persecuted down through the ages for being the chosen people. Now suddenly people want to say they aren't real Jews. smh
All Jews are real Jews. I would guess not one can trace back their genealogy that was completed in Mathew that established the coming of the seed the new born again generation of Christ. . How could a Jew prove he is a real one inwardly other than being born again of the incorruptible seed the word of God/ ? God is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female.
The faithless Jew that walk according to what the eyes see the temporal are still waiting for the veil to be rent indicating Christ has come in the flesh to demonstrate the work of pouring out his unseen wrath on corrupted flesh (Jesus's) the demonstration is over.
.This shows that the outward Jew has neither the father or the son .They are typified as antichrists . They are the ones that are persecuting the Christians .I am no expert but did hear its nearly impossible to find a new testament in Telavi. One shop is said to still have it available. God is no respecter of flesh. Sounds like the field is white in the earthly Jerusalem.
I think God can give a special desire to offer the gospel to a Jew but to make their flesh that which profits for something, anything even when Jesus said of His own it cannot profit. I would question the motive of what is being sold. .
All flesh comes from the same field of clay. We are to know no man after the flesh (what the eyes see) Even the Son of man, Jesus who informs us his flesh profits for nothing. That when he departs even though some did know him in that faithless way, that from then on we know him no more by a outward demonstration forever more. God is not a man as us. He will come as a thief in the night. We have the privilege like Noah to watch.
Not about corrupted flesh and blood. It will not enter the new order .It is about a love that lifts us up as a resurrected nation. Pray for Jerusalem .
1 John 2:21-23 King James Version (KJV) I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, "that denieth the Father and the Son".
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
I don't think it was relating to what they eyes see (DNA), Two kinds of Jews. Just like not all Israel is what the eyes see. Two kinds, those after the flesh as outward Jew and those after the born again Spirit of Christ as a inward Jew made up of all the nations of the world. ..
You could say he was saying; you look like a Christian but according to all things written in the law and the prophets something is out of order?
I'm a real "Heinz 57" variety.
who does God make Israel jealous with?
Deuteronomy 33:21. i quoted it to you some time ago but you ignored it.
this was spoken before there was an Hebrew kingdom. before it was divided. before any tribe could be considered 'lost'
a people who are not a people, He will make her jealous by.
how can this be any Hebrew He is talking about? He's making the Hebrews jealous through them.
ok, you dodge this verse. understandable. you can't deal with it.
so, how does Paul interpret it?
Romans 10:19, Paul quotes it:
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
to my thinking, you are clearly wrong, @amikamisrael God has offered salvation to every people, every nation, every tongue. to a people who are not a people.
the gift of God is not by human descendancy. just like Christ -- not on the basis of ancestry He is made priest, Hebrews 7:16
please answer my question: is determining who is saved a matter of a DNA test?
maybe he is a Nazi actually. or KKK. or an amalgam of both.
maybe @amikamisrael believes white skinned anglo people are the real Jews.
remember a few pages back what big bold font he used to emphatically declare "we are not black" ?
smh.
who's this "we" ?
i am not sure people who think Christ only came to redeem genetically Hebrew people are Christians.
they seem to not believe in the fundamental facts of the gospel.
i don't think he means me & you when he says "we" Kayla
As it pertains to faith, a Jew/Christian is one inwardly.
Romans 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Those in Revelation 2:9, and Revelation 2:10 claim to be Jews but are not, and are just like those who Christ addressed in John 8.
John 8:42-44
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me. 43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.