Modus pollen logic
If once saved, then always saved
Once saved
Therefore, always saved
If p then q
P
Therefore, q
If once saved, then always saved
Once saved
Therefore, always saved
If p then q
P
Therefore, q
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Yep dcon suffers from the very issues you describe.
Once righteousness and walking in love go out the window, everything else follows.
Heaven customs here, just to check the impure, sinners, degenerates, sexually immoral, liars,
etc do not make it through the screening.
It has come to our notice some reprobates think by repeating a few verses, jumping up and down,
being rude and obnoxious to the people of God makes them qualified to enter the Kingdom.
They go around with a big swagger, armed to the teeth, pushing their weight around, claiming
everything as their own, and that they can tell who is right and who is wrong, and condemning
those who do not match their sinful ways as lost and condemned. It is ironic these reprobates
get anywere but then their brothers and sisters in this mess agree with them.
Praise the Lord, that in all things we give praise to Him and desire to walk in His ways and know
His will, as Paul says,
9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and
asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.
10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way:
bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great
endurance and patience, and joyfully
Colossians 1
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Hebrews 10
etc do not make it through the screening.
It has come to our notice some reprobates think by repeating a few verses, jumping up and down,
being rude and obnoxious to the people of God makes them qualified to enter the Kingdom.
They go around with a big swagger, armed to the teeth, pushing their weight around, claiming
everything as their own, and that they can tell who is right and who is wrong, and condemning
those who do not match their sinful ways as lost and condemned. It is ironic these reprobates
get anywere but then their brothers and sisters in this mess agree with them.
Praise the Lord, that in all things we give praise to Him and desire to walk in His ways and know
His will, as Paul says,
9 For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and
asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding.
10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way:
bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great
endurance and patience, and joyfully
Colossians 1
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Hebrews 10
What happen to this insight?
Perhaps we should clarify the difference between salvation and sanctification
Salvation = born
Sanctification = after this "born"
Salvation has to do with SAVING and BRINGING TO ETERNAL LIFE the Human Spirit, happens in an instant.
Sanctification, has to with conforming the Human Body, to be like the Born Again Human Spirit, and takes a life time.
Born is regeneration. Salvation also includes justification, adoption, sanctification (Acts 15:9}, preservation (Romans 5:9-10) and glorification.
Look at Romans 5:9-10- Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
being justified...how much more shall be saved through Him.
Justification and regeneration are not the only aspects of salvation. You are ignoring the PRIESTLY MEDIATION of Christ.
You are only teaching part of Christ's work on our behalf.
Justified by His death. Saved by His unending life.
We are justified and reconciled by Grace through faith, and we are saved also through the PRESENT MEDIATION of Christ.
Agreed. But you are describing salvation as justification and regeneration only. Salvation involves more than justification and regeneration.
Romans 5: Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Just as the Work of Christ on our behalf does not merely involve His death, but also His Resurrection and His present Priestly Ministry, in the same way, salvation does not merely involve justification through His Blood, but also life and preservation through His LIFE!
Justified by His Death, once for all He died once for all we are justified, yet also We are saved and kept by His Unending Life. Priestly ministry of Christ
It is all relevant and equated to grace through faith....
a. Saved eternally
b. Sealed eternally
c. Sanctified positionally eternally
d. Justified eternally
e. Washed eternally
f. Covered by the blood eternally
g. NEVER forsaken and or left
i. KEPT by the power of God eternally
j. Mercy extended eternally
etc........
a. Saved eternally
b. Sealed eternally
c. Sanctified positionally eternally
d. Justified eternally
e. Washed eternally
f. Covered by the blood eternally
g. NEVER forsaken and or left
i. KEPT by the power of God eternally
j. Mercy extended eternally
etc........
Here is where our sin nature goes bye, bye; and we become perfect.
1 Corinthians 15:36-38 (HCSB)
36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed, perhaps of wheat or another grain.
38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body.
1 Corinthians 15:40 (HCSB)
40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones.
1 Corinthians 15:42-49 (HCSB)
42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead: Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory; sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.
47 The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust, so are those who are made of dust; like the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.
1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.
WE WILL NOT BE PERFECT, UNTIL THE RESURRECTION.
Very good! Exactly my point. Let's go a little deeper...
Hebrews 7:25-Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Jesus is able to save us to the uttermost, because of His unending life and His Priestly Intercession for us, correct?
Our salvation and preservation is rested on Him, or else there is no security
and it is rested not only in His death on the cross, but also rests on His present ministry on our behalf.
Psalm 14:3
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isaiah 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 7:24
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Hebrews 10:11-14
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
Hebrews 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Isaiah 1:18
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isaiah 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 7:24
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Hebrews 10:11-14
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.
Hebrews 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Isaiah 1:18
18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
If osas is true, then osas is true no matter what
If osas is true no matter what, by some weird logic, *insert abuse of doctrine here*
the point is: abuse of doctrine does not negate the truthfulness of the doctrine
If osas is true no matter what, by some weird logic, *insert abuse of doctrine here*
the point is: abuse of doctrine does not negate the truthfulness of the doctrine
abuse of doctrine does not negate the truthfulness of the doctrine
Amen to this list, for the saved, for the people of God, for the purified, for those walking in His ways
full of love.
10 Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble.
1 John 2
8 "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because
they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that
you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
1 Peter 2
faith + goodness + knowledge + self-control + perseverance + godliness + brotherly kindness + love
8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from
being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten
that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1
Our walk is promised if we grow into the qualities God has for us, Amen.
If we do not have these qualities
4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2
20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar.
1 John 4
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness
Rom 8
Praise God that when we obey God, walk in righteousness, we know we are saved, because this very victory
is confirmation of our calling and presence of the Holy Spirit and our freedom from sin.
There are many liars, who appear sound yet wallow in sin and defeat. They are reprobates, whose only message
is continue in evil, everything will be ok, which is a denial of the cross, repentance, victory, love, overcoming,
and the word of God. But as they do not have the Holy Spirit or victory, what else can they preach.
All of your verses are wonderful, and I agree with all, (of course), but there is MORE.
Titus 2:14- 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1 John 2:29- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 Peter 2:25- For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Romans 8:2-For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Hebrews 7:25- Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Romans 5:10- For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Philippians 1:6- Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: