Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

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UnderGrace

Guest
#481
#481
eternally-gratefull said:
It goes both ways

His persecution does not prove he is right, any more than the people who have been persecuted for my belief proves I am right

Persecuation of anyone for this topic alone on either side is actually quite foolsih,

And again, You missed the huge attacks from amill against anything premill in the past.. It got outright nasty.
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I am sure it did, and pretty silly when it comes down to it.

It does not relate to his point in the video, since he was not involved in debate with them, where exchanges can be come heated.

Unsolicited and unwarranted attack and vitriole when one is not even engaged in a conversation with a person is far, far, far different.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#482
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#482
eternally-gratefull said:
Actually it spoke of a period of time which is unknown. And explained why he did not cut the wheat and seperate them from the tares during that time.

His focus was not on the event, if you take the focus literally just on the event, you miss the whole point of what Jesus was trying to say.
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You know better than that with me......I never just focus on one point and yet the event described is literal and not to be spiritualized away.....

The end of the age, the judgment of the tares, the ingathering of the wheat, who gathers etc....ALL literally coming and literal events is the point I am making....
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#483
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
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#483
dcontroversal said:
Just a question......concerning the parable of the wheat and tares.....did not JESUS go on to explain the parable and the elements of the parable did indeed represent actual physical events, people, angels etc.....??


Wheat --Children of the Kingdom
Tares---Children of the devil
Harvest ---The end of the world
etc....


Based upon the above, I would have to disagree with the hard fast rule that parables cannot be interpreted literally
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I think so also,, In Rev.13:15 the ones who refuse to worship the image are "killed" by the beast. If this in any way meant that they were symbolically or spiritually killed by the beast then it would apply to the ones who did worship it and not the ones who don't. So seeing it states that they would be killed by the beast because they wont worship the image seems to mean they were not spiritually dead and so being killed by the beast only leaves a physical death at his hand.

In Rev 19:21 the ones who were deceived by the false prophet then are spiritually dead because they were deceived and worshiped the image and received his mark. So then if they are already spiritually dead and are given to the sword and the fowl eat them then again a physical death is the only one left as an option.So in that parable the wheat the tares ,devil, harvest can only be describing Rev.13:15( things the devil sows) and the harvest of the wheat at the end of the world. but both are literal in both Scriptures in Revelation imo.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#484
#484
UnderGrace said:
I am sure it did, and pretty silly when it comes down to it.

It does not relate to his point in the video, since he was not involved in debate with them, where exchanges can be come heated.

Unsolicited and unwarranted attack and vitriole when one is not even engaged in a conversation with a person is far, far, far different.
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And it happens to both sides/

Which was my point.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#485
#485
dcontroversal said:
You know better than that with me......I never just focus on one point and yet the event described is literal and not to be spiritualized away.....

The end of the age, the judgment of the tares, the ingathering of the wheat, who gathers etc....ALL literally coming and literal events is the point I am making....
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I know the point your making bro.

But your point about literal being the focus I disagree with, The focus is the present, and why God allows the wheat and tares to live or grow together, with a viepoint of lookin to the future


Where prophesy is literally looking at future events.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#486
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#486
I think we ought to pray Gods will be done on earth as it is in heaven. For his kingdom to come.

As for Jerusalem, we have revelation that its going to be prepared as a holy city.
Whats there right now doesnt seem very holy, its broken, sadly.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#487
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#487
eternally-gratefull said:
It goes both ways

His persecution does not prove he is right, any more than the people who have been persecuted for my belief proves I am right

Persecuation of anyone for this topic alone on either side is actually quite foolsih,

And again, You missed the huge attacks from amill against anything premill in the past.. It got outright nasty.
Click to expand...
Was that with Zone leading the charge?
Also, there were JW's persecuted by the Nazi regime, maybe we shoild become Awake and look to the Watchtower. LOL
 
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yellowcanary

Junior Member
#488
May 22, 2018
122
78
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#488
"Animal sacrifices will never be seen again in Christ's kingdom ... nor should they be. Jesus Christ set aside the first (OT animal sacrifices for sins) to establish the second (His perfect once and for all sacrifice of Himself)."

eternally-gratefull said:
No one would argue this point, which makes it a ridiculous argument to begin with.

Prophesy saying these things will happen again is not the same as saying God demands and says they must be done again, for his kingdom.

Prophesy is looking into the future and seeing events which will happen and write those things down.

Not to mention, the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin to begin with, So no one was ever made right with God by any sacrifice in any temple. So again, Saying it can;t happen because God will nto allow it or whatever is an illogical argument.
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Many here on CC have argued this very point of animal sacrifice reinstitution during what they understand as the 1,000 year millennial reign. There's likely a few commenting on this very thread ... but not saying so at the moment. The rest of your post is vague and says nothing. In response to my ridiculous and illogical argument/post, are animal sacrifices reinstated again in your view ... or not ?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#489
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#489
iamsoandso said:
I think so also,, In Rev.13:15 the ones who refuse to worship the image are "killed" by the beast. If this in any way meant that they were symbolically or spiritually killed by the beast then it would apply to the ones who did worship it and not the ones who don't. So seeing it states that they would be killed by the beast because they wont worship the image seems to mean they were not spiritually dead and so being killed by the beast only leaves a physical death at his hand.

In Rev 19:21 the ones who were deceived by the false prophet then are spiritually dead because they were deceived and worshiped the image and received his mark. So then if they are already spiritually dead and are given to the sword and the fowl eat them then again a physical death is the only one left as an option.So in that parable the wheat the tares ,devil, harvest can only be describing Rev.13:15( things the devil sows) and the harvest of the wheat at the end of the world. but both are literal in both Scriptures in Revelation imo.
Click to expand...
To me one of the biggest errors is to spiritualize everything away...the parable of the wheat and tares is one such event......JESUS himself tells us what the parable is about.....he also indicates the timing of the event which is irrelevant....it is a literal EVENT that comes at the LAST DAY, has literal players-->saved, lost, angels and involves both the PHYSICAL and Spiritual realms.......I have heard the old adage that a parable contains only one central truth......and yet when I see JESUS explain a parable I glean MANY truths from them.....

I really do not understand what the problem is....the bible is FULL of prophetic events that have been laid bare hundreds and even thousands of years before they come to pass........and one would have to be willfully blind to deny the fact that there are events that have yet to be fulfilled in the Middle East that pertain to a NATION called ISRAEL.......

The simple TRUTH that that little insignificant nation has been decimated three times and then after almost 2000 years stands AGAIN speaks volumes to the fact that GOD is not done with it yet.....

NAME ONE nation that has been wiped off the map three times and yet STOOD again as a NATION that is prospering........!!!!!
 
Y

yellowcanary

Junior Member
#490
May 22, 2018
122
78
28
#490
eternally-gratefull said:
Prophesy saying these things will happen again is not the same as saying God demands and says they must be done again, for his kingdom.
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For the record, prophecy saying these things will happen again IS THE SAME as God saying they will be done again. ... or it's not prophecy, is it ? Being demanded by God or not or for His kingdom or not is a mute and ridiculous point ... and illogical.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#491
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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113
#491
eternally-gratefull said:
I know the point your making bro.

But your point about literal being the focus I disagree with, The focus is the present, and why God allows the wheat and tares to live or grow together, with a viepoint of lookin to the future


Where prophesy is literally looking at future events.
Click to expand...
Not even going to argue....that is not the point I made nor did I say that......
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#492
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#492
crossnote said:
Was that with Zone leading the charge?
Also, there were JW's persecuted by the Nazi regime, maybe we shoild become Awake and look to the Watchtower. LOL
Click to expand...

There's a film called "Frank Capra's why we fight" some of it is on youtube but I'm not sure how much. I have an old vhs tape of his that's six hours long but I wouldn't know to upload it. During the war if you went to the matinées in between the films they played these and other mini films about ww2 but there's complete collections of them available.

If you watch these old films from the 30's-40's some of the things in them are different than whats thought today. members of my family many times argued that I was incorrect on things and would show me there history books as proof. I wondered if I was loosing my memory lol, so went looking for those old films and showed them to my family.

What you said is correct about others being persecuted by the Nazi ,in the films Hitler in his speeches said many times that Catholic,Judaism and all protestant religions were to be removed from Germany but after the war is when the Holocaust began to pushed into books,media ect. In the films Manchuria being invaded by Japan was always said to be when ww2 began but now everyone says it was in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland.

During the war out in the Gulf of Mexico there were day and night naval battles but the public was told that it was naval training exercises. The cargo ships would leave the port of Houston,port Author,New Orleans ect. and were sank on their way to Europe but it was not told to the public that the battles were real until long after the war because they didn't want to cause panic. Anyway if you can find the old films on youtube and watch them you'll see why there's a difference between what the older peple thought and the younger ones who used history books at school. If you search for the ships sunk in the Gulf you'll find both German uboats and commercial vessels as well as cruise ships.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#493
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#493
The problem with dispensationalism is the supposed gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel:

(Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.)

We know from Hebrews that Jesus entered into the most holy place with his own blood:

(Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.)

There is no gap.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#494
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#494
dcontroversal said:
To me one of the biggest errors is to spiritualize everything away...the parable of the wheat and tares is one such event......JESUS himself tells us what the parable is about.....he also indicates the timing of the event which is irrelevant....it is a literal EVENT that comes at the LAST DAY, has literal players-->saved, lost, angels and involves both the PHYSICAL and Spiritual realms.......I have heard the old adage that a parable contains only one central truth......and yet when I see JESUS explain a parable I glean MANY truths from them.....

I really do not understand what the problem is....the bible is FULL of prophetic events that have been laid bare hundreds and even thousands of years before they come to pass........and one would have to be willfully blind to deny the fact that there are events that have yet to be fulfilled in the Middle East that pertain to a NATION called ISRAEL.......

The simple TRUTH that that little insignificant nation has been decimated three times and then after almost 2000 years stands AGAIN speaks volumes to the fact that GOD is not done with it yet.....

NAME ONE nation that has been wiped off the map three times and yet STOOD again as a NATION that is prospering........!!!!!
Click to expand...

lol, I'm on your side.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#495
#495
crossnote said:
Was that with Zone leading the charge?
Also, there were JW's persecuted by the Nazi regime, maybe we shoild become Awake and look to the Watchtower. LOL
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Her and a few others.. And she was not the worse by any means.

As I said, I was considered unsaved as a duel covenant person.. by many in that group. I had to place most of them on ignore. It got crazy..
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#496
#496
azamzimtoti said:
The problem with dispensationalism is the supposed gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel:

(Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.)

We know from Hebrews that Jesus entered into the most holy place with his own blood:

(Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.)

There is no gap.
Click to expand...
But required for the system to work.... a bit of a quandary?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#497
#497
yellowcanary said:
"Animal sacrifices will never be seen again in Christ's kingdom ... nor should they be. Jesus Christ set aside the first (OT animal sacrifices for sins) to establish the second (His perfect once and for all sacrifice of Himself)."



Many here on CC have argued this very point of animal sacrifice reinstitution during what they understand as the 1,000 year millennial reign. There's likely a few commenting on this very thread ... but not saying so at the moment. The rest of your post is vague and says nothing. In response to my ridiculous and illogical argument/post, are animal sacrifices reinstated again in your view ... or not ?
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@eternally-gratefull wondering if this is part of your eschatology?

curious by nature
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#498
#498
eternally-gratefull said:
And it happens to both sides/

Which was my point.
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Do you have evidence to support this assertion?

Do you know a orthodox preterist who became a futurist and consequently received hate mail and email, vilified and was publicly slandered behind various pulpits across the land?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#499
#499
yellowcanary said:
"Animal sacrifices will never be seen again in Christ's kingdom ... nor should they be. Jesus Christ set aside the first (OT animal sacrifices for sins) to establish the second (His perfect once and for all sacrifice of Himself)."



Many here on CC have argued this very point of animal sacrifice reinstitution during what they understand as the 1,000 year millennial reign. There's likely a few commenting on this very thread ... but not saying so at the moment. The rest of your post is vague and says nothing. In response to my ridiculous and illogical argument/post, are animal sacrifices reinstated again in your view ... or not ?
Click to expand...
It does not matter, If God does that whats it to you?

It never saved anyone, it never will. So the argument is useless.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#500
#500
yellowcanary said:
For the record, prophecy saying these things will happen again IS THE SAME as God saying they will be done again. ... or it's not prophecy, is it ? Being demanded by God or not or for His kingdom or not is a mute and ridiculous point ... and illogical.
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What did God say he would come die on the cross again?

Again, If prophesy says they will happen. They will/. It is not for you or me or anyone else to question God as to why they happen, Just know they will. And say you know what God. I am not sure why, But if you say it is gonna happen. I will not question you.
 
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