Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Ok I have read the post and following posts.

Here is one I read



Here is how I interpreted it.

We know Budman has a beef about sin.
His beef is that some come accross as teaching sinless perfection yet sin themselves.
Further that sins of omission or inadvertent sins do not count.
Bud please correct me if I'm wrong.

So I have interpreted his above response along these lines.

When we sin we do so because we want to. The reality is that if did not want to then we would not sin. Therefore sinning because we want to.
Even though we do sin (because we want to) we are still saved by faith because even one sin keeps us out of heaven if we did not have faith in Jesus.

If my assumption is correct then he does not fall foul of what Paul has addressed.
He has not said we can use grace as a license to sin.

Bud please correct me if I am wrong.

You obviously interpreted it differently from me.
I would be interested to know why.

BUD said we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved. Do you agree with this?

 

[theanointedwinner]

Imagine, it is impossible to stop sinning, so we go to hell,

If we catch on fire, kindergarten says, "stop, drop and roll"

Fire still exist, and we will only stop drop and roll in torment

 

[Macabeus]

Ok I have read the post and following posts.

Here is one I read



Here is how I interpreted it.

We know Budman has a beef about sin.
His beef is that some come accross as teaching sinless perfection yet sin themselves.
Further that sins of omission or inadvertent sins do not count.
Bud please correct me if I'm wrong.

So I have interpreted his above response along these lines.

When we sin we do so because we want to. The reality is that if did not want to then we would not sin. Therefore sinning because we want to.
Even though we do sin (because we want to) we are still saved by faith because even one sin keeps us out of heaven if we did not have faith in Jesus.

If my assumption is correct then he does not fall foul of what Paul has addressed.
He has not said we can use grace as a license to sin.

Bud please correct me if I am wrong.

You obviously interpreted it differently from me.
I would be interested to know why.

 

[Macabeus]

BUD said we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved. Do you agree with this?

What do you say, Bill? Do you agree with this?

 

[Macabeus]

If you stop believing, you didn't accept the gift of salvation. It can't be both.

AGREED! 1 John 2:19

 

[dcontroversal]

He promises to complete the work that He started. God is awesome!

AMEN for sure............a confident expectation of something guaranteed <----Bible's hope

 

[Macabeus]

What do you say, Bill? Do you agree with this?

Ok I have read the post and following posts.

Here is one I read



Here is how I interpreted it.

We know Budman has a beef about sin.
His beef is that some come accross as teaching sinless perfection yet sin themselves.
Further that sins of omission or inadvertent sins do not count.
Bud please correct me if I'm wrong.

So I have interpreted his above response along these lines.

When we sin we do so because we want to. The reality is that if did not want to then we would not sin. Therefore sinning because we want to.
Even though we do sin (because we want to) we are still saved by faith because even one sin keeps us out of heaven if we did not have faith in Jesus.

If my assumption is correct then he does not fall foul of what Paul has addressed.
He has not said we can use grace as a license to sin.

Bud please correct me if I am wrong.

You obviously interpreted it differently from me.
I would be interested to know why.

I see you agreed with Limey's statement above, so I will consider my question about "can a believer stop believing and be saved?" A answered. A believer that stops believing is an oxymoron

 

[Macabeus]

AMEN for sure............a confident expectation of something guaranteed <----Bible's hope

Yep, kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH, not kept by the power of God through unbelief. And yes, faith is a gift of God

Closed the loop for ya.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you stop believing, you didn't accept the gift of salvation. It can't be both.

If we are faithless he abides faithful because he cannot deny himself <--written by PAUL to Timothy, both saved and both included....no one can ever convince me based upon that verse and a few others that a an can lose faith to the point of losing salvation.......

Christ BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith in us and it is the faith of or from Christ that saves us......

 

[Macabeus]

If we are faithless he abides faithful because he cannot deny himself <--written by PAUL to Timothy, both saved and both included....no one can ever convince me based upon that verse and a few others that a an can lose faith to the point of losing salvation.......

Christ BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith in us and it is the faith of or from Christ that saves us......

1 Timothy 2:12- If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Hebrews 3:6But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

kept by the power of God through faith...1 Peter 1:5

He is able to keep you from falling Jude 1:24

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey Bill, did you see the post where Bud DID say "a Christian can sin all they want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved". and now we have DC complaining that I DISAGREE that statement. He also LIKED a post where that claim was repeated.

...and DC is the one who brought up fruit, so I hope no one gets upset for me replying...;

And he is making the tree analogy walk on all fours. saying that the fact that it takes a period of growth and maturity for a tree to bear fruit the same is true of Christians, IE a new Christian cannot bear fruit.

But how long does it take wheat to grow? Several months. OK now if you use the same exegesis rule that DC used on trees beaing fruit to the parable of the wheat and tares, Jesus would have had to come back in the FIrst century. Because wheat only takes months to grow.

ONe of many examples of bad exegesis by DC

Like I said.....

dcontroversal said:
AMEN BRO.....MACARONI is a walking talking accuser...........exactly why I have his drivel on ignore.........hey by the way Bill.....I planted about 45 tame black berry plants a few days ago.....they till have not put off any fruit......and won't until NEXT YEAR <----growth and maturity to produce......

 

[theanointedwinner]

If we are faithless he abides faithful because he cannot deny himself <--written by PAUL to Timothy, both saved and both included....no one can ever convince me based upon that verse and a few others that a an can lose faith to the point of losing salvation.......

Christ BEGINS, FINISHES and COMPLETES the work of faith in us and it is the faith of or from Christ that saves us......

Dcon, your God is the best God ... We underestimate his love

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I get fed up with people accusing fellow brothers/sisters on here teaching that we can sin all we want and still be saved.
They obviously mean sinning without regard.

So to such people who accuse either put up or shut up.
If anyone here does teach such a thing then they need to be bought to task.

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone or throw it the floor.

Hi Bill,

Are you eternal? Could you deny everything and disbelieve Jesus and He would not honour
the faith you once had? If the answer is yes, then this is where I sit.

It appears many do not sit here, which daily I am told I am wrong, lol.
So it seems funny you expressing yourself as you are. Scripture seems plain.
1. We know Jesus and walk with Him, growing in grace, love and faithfulness.
2. We need to stand till the end to show our true new nature in Him.
3. Part of our communion with Jesus is a cleansed heart and cleansed pure actions.

I could word it, the elect are those who stand till the end, and show themselves by perseverance.
The elect will never fall away, will hold true to their Lord. They were predestined before time to
freely chose the Lord after He chose them and called them.

Now if all believe this, amen, but it appears some do not. I do not point out the difference, it is told
to me constantly as if I have something wrong. I simply quote the scriptures that declare these truths
like

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments
and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14

Some seem to think all believers will be raptured, except it says this

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies ......
7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.
Rev 13

The division between the people of God and everyone else will become more obvious.
And the basis of this will be love and behaviour.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I know....such ignorance.........SIN was paid for at the cross....it is finished is a legal ACCOUNTING TERM = paid in full.....SIN is not the issue, faith is the ISSUE.....after one is really saved....SIN hinders fellowship, but NOT SONSHIP..........

I am seeing this more with understanding as I was reading 1 John this morning...
It is so comforting to know that we can come to God with our confession , knowing Jesus is constantly cleansing us and washing us clean..

There was lots of gems this morning as I was reading 1 John , how when we have doubts or insecurities about our faith , God comes and reassures us that when our heart condemns us , He knows His children , and He through His Holy Spirit comforts us , I found real comfort in that...xox...

 

[PS]

Imagine, it is impossible to stop sinning, so we go to hell,

If we catch on fire, kindergarten says, "stop, drop and roll"

Fire still exist, and we will only stop drop and roll in torment

As someone said, we have a sinful nature and will always do something we are not proud of. That does not mean we are not saved. Remember the basics, we are saved by faith. We are told to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we shall be saved. No conditions. So, what is the evidence of our faith. Quite simply it is our works. James 2:17 tells us, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead"

So, no works means no faith. Conclusion: not saved.

We know a fire is dead if there are no flames and no heat. They are the evidence, and so it is with faith, our works and our lifestyle are the outward evidence of our innermost faith. Without that evidence, a persons salvation is dubious.

 

[Rosemaryx]

What if when dying, your seizures happen to "hate God" even if unintended?

God knows our hearts , He knows who are His , what a wonderful Almighty God we serve...xox...

 

[PS]

I am seeing this more with understanding as I was reading 1 John this morning...
It is so comforting to know that we can come to God with our confession , knowing Jesus is constantly cleansing us and washing us clean..

There was lots of gems this morning as I was reading 1 John , how when we have doubts or insecurities about our faith , God comes and reassures us that when our heart condemns us , He knows His children , and He through His Holy Spirit comforts us , I found real comfort in that...xox...

Spoken like a true Christian who comes to Jesus daily in faith believing.

 

[Macabeus]

As someone said, we have a sinful nature and will always do something we are not proud of. That does not mean we are not saved. Remember the basics, we are saved by faith. We are told to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we shall be saved. No conditions. So, what is the evidence of our faith. Quite simply it is our works. James 2:17 tells us, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead"

So, no works means no faith. Conclusion: not saved.

We know a fire is dead if there are no flames and no heat. They are the evidence, and so it is with faith, our works and our lifestyle are the outward evidence of our innermost faith. Without that evidence, a persons salvation is dubious.

Saying we will always struggle with sin is not the same as saying "a Christian can sin all they want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved." Nor is it the same as saying that we can sin all we want and the verse in First John 3 about the one being born of God "sinneth not" means that only refers to the New Nature, and consequently we can sin as much as we want in the flesh and be sinless in the new nature

He that is born of God sinneth not means "abide, continue, persist in sin" in agreement with the tense of the verb "sins" and also in agreement with what Paul said in Romans 6:1 and also in agreement with Jesus words when he told the man in Matthew 5 "go and sin no more..."

 

[theanointedwinner]

It is always easier for the heart to say, "I want you in my death, than I want you in my life"

Who can know the struggles of tomorrow? therefore, "do not worry about tomorrow, for each day have enough trouble of it's own"

 

[Macabeus]

It is always easier for the heart to say, "I want you in my death, than I want you in my life"

Who can know the struggles of tomorrow? therefore, "do not worry about tomorrow, for each day have enough trouble of it's own"

I have no worries about tomorrow. I am kept by the power of God and held in His Hand.