Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[eternally-gratefull]

Not arrogant at all, it's an admission that after careful study I found the dispensational position I held was wrong.

Yes it is Because your just stating it. It does not prove your case, it is what we call a strawman,

I doubt you can make the same case unless you had been an amill, or postmill for years and then after careful study found them wanting.

yeah, Excuse your own sin, while attacking others.

Once agan, are you going to answer my question, or just attack like you always do? Let me know.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The problem I see for any dispensationalist is ignoring plain statements relating to time, but significantly what Jesus and Peter stated:

(Luke 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.)

There are no exceptions to Jesus' claim here, not all but this or all but that that is written.

(Acts 3:24 And all the prophets, from Samuel and those who followed him, have spoken about and announced these days.)

Peter was claiming that all the prophets spoke about the days he was living in, not days thousands of years into his future.

What dispensationalism in fact does is refute the above statements and attempts to build a "theology" of apologetics of reasonings why the above can't be true.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Yes it is Because your just stating it. It does not prove your case, it is what we call a strawman,



yeah, Excuse your own sin, while attacking others.

Once agan, are you going to answer my question, or just attack like you always do? Let me know.

So now I'm sinning in my responses and always on the attack?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for the respect ...

I'm glad for you...I have not looked at the other side but I am now.....they make some excellent points that must be considered.

Mr DCon we all have bias ...and including myself.....the trick is recognizing one's bias and where it comes from.
My bias started with Hal Lindsey....I need to start again

Start listening to people in here. What they believe and how they believe, Believe it or not. DC and I do not agree with everything concerning end times. But we are able to communicate and see each others side because we are open.

Hal Lindsay is one person. I would suggest most people here do not even agree with him. If we try to listen to others and try to make their belief fit with what some person said that we disagree with, We stop being able to communicate. Or learn.

 

[dcontroversal]

The problem I see...people that refuse to acknowledge the following truths......

See.....one benefit from the Hebrew and Greek......In God's eyes it is all already done......he is just waiting for "time" to play out......and exactly why from the perspective of truth EVERYTHING does come quickly.....UNLESS GOD wants man to see it from man's perspective of time <---Like DANIEL was told.....

a thousand years.........compared to.....in GOD'S eyes....so let's play out the last 2000 years

a. AS two days
b. As 6 or 8 hours (depending on which watch in the night one goes by)
c. As but YESTERDAY

When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES.....2000 years is at most 2 days........!!!

 

[azamzimtoti]

The problem I see...people that refuse to acknowledge the following truths......

See.....one benefit from the Hebrew and Greek......In God's eyes it is all already done......he is just waiting for "time" to play out......and exactly why from the perspective of truth EVERYTHING does come quickly.....UNLESS GOD wants man to see it from man's perspective of time <---Like DANIEL was told.....

a thousand years.........compared to.....in GOD'S eyes....so let's play out the last 2000 years

a. AS two days
b. As 6 or 8 hours (depending on which watch in the night one goes by)
c. As but YESTERDAY

When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES.....2000 years is at most 2 days........!!!

This is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So now I'm sinning in my responses and always on the attack?

What else would you call it?

And yeah I am, It seems to be a habit of some belief groups. They attack and belittle and use strawman, refusing to answer questions. I assume so they can take focus off themselves? And try to defame the person they are arguing with?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is ridiculous to say the least.

Yep. This sure proves him wrong. Another strawman..

 

[azamzimtoti]

What else would you call it?

And yeah I am, It seems to be a habit of some belief groups. They attack and belittle and use strawman, refusing to answer questions. I assume so they can take focus off themselves? And try to defame the person they are arguing with?

The only focus I've been on is scripture. I've mentioned Pentecost statements earlier and stated what he said does not conform to scripture, some might want to think that is trying to defame him, personally I don't.

if you want to shift the "focus" to me that's your problem EG.

Yeah, Dwight will put you straight with his statements such as "the church was entirely unknown in the old testament" and an "interruption of God's program for Israel".

These are the bogus ideas that form the rotten root of dispensation-al-ism and totally without merit.

That could be viewed as defaming Dwight and dispensationalist. I don't see it that way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only focus I've been on is scripture. I've mentioned Pentecost statements earlier and stated what he said does not conform to scripture, some might want to think that is trying to defame him, personally I don't.

I already responded to that, That is not what I am talking about.

if you want to shift the "focus" to me that's your problem EG.

I am calling out your tactics.

That could be viewed as defaming Dwight and dispensationalist. I don't see it that way.

Disagreement is not defaming

Please stop trying to excuse yourself man. Your hurting yourself.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Yep. This sure proves him wrong. Another strawman..

How is it a straw man? Do know what a straw man argument is?

 

[dcontroversal]

This is ridiculous to say the least.

Of course you would say that.....the truth of it contradicts your view......

Read it again and be honest.....it will set your free from the erroneous view you hold to....

See.....one benefit from the Hebrew and Greek......In God's eyes it is all already done......he is just waiting for "time" to play out......and exactly why from the perspective of truth EVERYTHING does come quickly.....UNLESS GOD wants man to see it from man's perspective of time <---Like DANIEL was told.....

a thousand years.........compared to.....in GOD'S eyes....so let's play out the last 2000 years

a. AS two days
b. As 6 or 8 hours (depending on which watch in the night one goes by)
c. As but YESTERDAY

When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES.....2000 years is at most 2 days........!!!

 

[azamzimtoti]

I am calling out your tactics.

What tactics? This is getting futile.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is it a straw man? Do know what a straw man argument is?

What you said did not prove him wrong. You made a statement that was nonsensical. It did not add to the conversation. It puffed yourself up. And tried to tear hi down.

He could say the same thing about your views. (And I know he has on occasion, and I try to let him know also this is not right) But what good would it do if he said that to you. It would puff himself up do nothing to add to the conversation.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Of course you would say that.....the truth of it contradicts your view......

Read it again and be honest.....it will set your free from the erroneous view you hold to....

See.....one benefit from the Hebrew and Greek......In God's eyes it is all already done......he is just waiting for "time" to play out......and exactly why from the perspective of truth EVERYTHING does come quickly.....UNLESS GOD wants man to see it from man's perspective of time <---Like DANIEL was told.....

a thousand years.........compared to.....in GOD'S eyes....so let's play out the last 2000 years

a. AS two days
b. As 6 or 8 hours (depending on which watch in the night one goes by)
c. As but YESTERDAY

When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES.....2000 years is at most 2 days........!!!

I don't see any truth here in respect to time statements given to man from God, they either are relative to how man views time or they become totally meaningless and capable of being stretched to any purpose based on the imagination.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What tactics? This is getting futile.

Yeah it is

And your continued refusal to answer my question is telling.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't see any truth here in respect to time statements given to man from God, they either are relative to how man views time or they become totally meaningless and capable of being stretched to any purpose based on the imagination.

Can you be more specific?

This is what I am talking about. General statements like this. How do they help? And how is he even supposed to answer you?

 

[UnderGrace]

Start listening to people in here. What they believe and how they believe, Believe it or not. DC and I do not agree with everything concerning end times. But we are able to communicate and see each others side because we are open.

Hal Lindsay is one person. I would suggest most people here do not even agree with him. If we try to listen to others and try to make their belief fit with what some person said that we disagree with, We stop being able to communicate. Or learn.

I agree, but the topic is soooo emotive, I really do not understand why, I tend to see it more from a different lens, more like a puzzle which is fun to piece together.

I just do not see it as an essential doctrine for salvation, I just found it all very interesting given my recent research into 70 AD

Anyway, the thread meanders and I cannot follow it sometimes. we shall see if I continue....I am still trying to figure out where Matthew 24 goes from fulfilled to yet to be fulfilled........................... @cobalt1959 read it three times????

 

[azamzimtoti]

Can you be more specific?

This is what I am talking about. General statements like this. How do they help? And how is he even supposed to answer you?

I already posted John's time statements in the opening and ending of his apocalypse, the response was this:

"When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES"

He can't answer me because his mind is already made up of a series of faulty reasonings.

He's going to continue to ignore plain language and "lo and bold" contradict his own claim of a literal reading of scripture "eisegesising" the statements with some kind of "spiritualization" that both amill and postmill get accused of.

The problem I see...people that refuse to acknowledge the following truths......

See.....one benefit from the Hebrew and Greek......In God's eyes it is all already done......he is just waiting for "time" to play out......and exactly why from the perspective of truth EVERYTHING does come quickly.....UNLESS GOD wants man to see it from man's perspective of time <---Like DANIEL was told.....

a thousand years.........compared to.....in GOD'S eyes....so let's play out the last 2000 years

a. AS two days
b. As 6 or 8 hours (depending on which watch in the night one goes by)
c. As but YESTERDAY

When JESUS said I COME QUICKLY...HE was addressing MAN as GOD and in HIS EYES.....2000 years is at most 2 days........!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, but the topic is soooo emotive, I really do not understand why, I tend to see it more from a different lens, more like a puzzle which is fun to piece together.

I just do not see it as an essential doctrine for salvation, I just found it all very interesting given my recent research into 70 AD

Anyway, the thread meanders and I cannot follow it sometimes. we shall see if I continue....I am still trying to figure out where Matthew 24 goes from fulfilled to yet to be fulfilled........................... @cobalt1959 read it three times????

Ask yourself this

Has jesus returned?

If not.

Matt 24 is not fulfilled.

Matt 24: 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Remember, when Jesus left. The angel said he would return the same way, we would see him in the clouds.


Act 1: 9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

So maybe you can see why we can not see matt 24 as already been fulfilled now?