Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.
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He is stuck on one passage, and ignores all the rest.
This is what happens when you can’t explain away other passages, whether it be salvation by grace or end times, or tonues or whatever the argument, You focus on one verse or one idea, and claim this proves you right. End of story.
its a red flag for those watching the conversation and should be a red flag for the person doing it. Sadly it is overlooked far to often.
This is what happens when you can’t explain away other passages, whether it be salvation by grace or end times, or tonues or whatever the argument, You focus on one verse or one idea, and claim this proves you right. End of story.
its a red flag for those watching the conversation and should be a red flag for the person doing it. Sadly it is overlooked far to often.
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Would that be a literal thousand years or would it have a signified meaning to reveal the things of God not seen. The temporal to reveal the eternal things of faith.?
It would seem the interpretation standard is signified.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Why would we not use the prescription below when looking at the parable in Revelation 20? I think it is how the unbelieving Jew turned the things of God thing upside down taking away his understanding by making it to no effect through their oral tradition of men .
Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
We must be careful on how we hear the voice of Christ. Many antichrists that are seen are literally here under the Sun..
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It would seem the interpretation standard is signified.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Why would we not use the prescription below when looking at the parable in Revelation 20? I think it is how the unbelieving Jew turned the things of God thing upside down taking away his understanding by making it to no effect through their oral tradition of men .
Isaiah 29:16Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
We must be careful on how we hear the voice of Christ. Many antichrists that are seen are literally here under the Sun..
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Amen, that seems to be the purpose of parables that uses the signified poetic language of God, provide a presscription for those who miss the hidden understanding also called hidden Mana in Revelation 2:17.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Thankfully he has given us a preseciption . Looking through lemes without a presecituion can cause things to look a little fuzy. watch out for those who say literalixe the dignified meaning.
2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Thankfully he has given us a preseciption . Looking through lemes without a presecituion can cause things to look a little fuzy. watch out for those who say literalixe the dignified meaning.
2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
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Why did you skip vs 3?
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Rev 20 is not a parable. It is a prophesy concerning what will happen in the end.
Making it a parable is to allow a translation which is not according to what John said it was. Prophesy of things which will happen.
Parables are written or spoken to explain a spiritual truth
Prophesy is written to give the people who experience what is spoken proof that God is who he says he is, and this proof causes many to turn repent and turn to God. it also gives many people ( in this instance) hope that God is not gonna just sit by idle and let evil continue, that there will come a time when he will say enough is enough, and pour out his wrath, and bring an end to what we have been witnessing for thousands of years now.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Rev 20 is not a parable. It is a prophesy concerning what will happen in the end.
Making it a parable is to allow a translation which is not according to what John said it was. Prophesy of things which will happen.
Parables are written or spoken to explain a spiritual truth
Prophesy is written to give the people who experience what is spoken proof that God is who he says he is, and this proof causes many to turn repent and turn to God. it also gives many people ( in this instance) hope that God is not gonna just sit by idle and let evil continue, that there will come a time when he will say enough is enough, and pour out his wrath, and bring an end to what we have been witnessing for thousands of years now.
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I wasn't stating that only Jerusalem was effected, I was speaking against a world wide event which is what the dispensational view asserts.
Depends on how the Greek basileus is understood EG. We see in Matthew that Jesus said that the disciples would be brought before "kings" here:
(Mat 10:18 And you will be brought before governors and kings because of me, as a witness to them and the Gentiles.)
(Mat 10:23 Whenever they persecute you in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.)
So how many kings were there in the land (towns of Israel) were there for them to be brought before?
In John's revelation we don't know how many "kings" are spoken of, but what is interesting is John's use of 7 in the seven fold manner of persons affected:
1 - Kings
2 - Great men
3 - Rich men
4 - Chief captains
5 - Mighty men
6 - Bond men
7 - Free men
The is a narrative device common throughout John's revelation, the simple literal reading is well, er, "simple".
Depends on how the Greek basileus is understood EG. We see in Matthew that Jesus said that the disciples would be brought before "kings" here:
(Mat 10:18 And you will be brought before governors and kings because of me, as a witness to them and the Gentiles.)
(Mat 10:23 Whenever they persecute you in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.)
So how many kings were there in the land (towns of Israel) were there for them to be brought before?
In John's revelation we don't know how many "kings" are spoken of, but what is interesting is John's use of 7 in the seven fold manner of persons affected:
1 - Kings
2 - Great men
3 - Rich men
4 - Chief captains
5 - Mighty men
6 - Bond men
7 - Free men
The is a narrative device common throughout John's revelation, the simple literal reading is well, er, "simple".
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And you were proven wrong.
Kings of the earth speak of MANY NATIONS (each nation has a king) so it is not just a local event in one city as you are trying to claim.
Scripture speaks of a worldwide event, You have to take the many prophecies from the OT and the new, put them together, and you see a picture a picture is quite clear.
Jesus spoke of an event which would happen in 70 ad, But he also spoke of many events which would happen much further in the future, events so severe, he would have to return to the earth before mankind wipes out all life (flesh) on earth.
Kings of the earth speak of MANY NATIONS (each nation has a king) so it is not just a local event in one city as you are trying to claim.
Scripture speaks of a worldwide event, You have to take the many prophecies from the OT and the new, put them together, and you see a picture a picture is quite clear.
Jesus spoke of an event which would happen in 70 ad, But he also spoke of many events which would happen much further in the future, events so severe, he would have to return to the earth before mankind wipes out all life (flesh) on earth.
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Not in any way, the events in John's revelation are stated to shortly come to pass when he wrote it.
(Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John)
(Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy aloud, and blessed are those who hear and obey the things written in it, because the time is near!)
And just to make sure he would not be misunderstood and his prophecy misused he restated his opening remarks:
(Rev 22:10 Then he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy contained in this book, because the time is near.)
(Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John)
(Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy aloud, and blessed are those who hear and obey the things written in it, because the time is near!)
And just to make sure he would not be misunderstood and his prophecy misused he restated his opening remarks:
(Rev 22:10 Then he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy contained in this book, because the time is near.)
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Yet they have not happened yet.
Because AGAIN, If you TAKE ALL PROPHECIES concerning this time, NOT EVERYTHING has happened.
If you take a list of things, and say all these things are going to happen BEFORE the end, and all those things have yet to happen, the end is not yet.
Now you can do like amills and spiritualise all that has not happened to make it APPEAR the end had come and gone, But that would be a huge mistake.
Your gonna have to explain all the inconsistencies and the fact that many events have yet to take place. Not to mention the fact, were IMPOSSIBLE to take place in ad 70 otherwise, your fighting a losing battle.
Because AGAIN, If you TAKE ALL PROPHECIES concerning this time, NOT EVERYTHING has happened.
If you take a list of things, and say all these things are going to happen BEFORE the end, and all those things have yet to happen, the end is not yet.
Now you can do like amills and spiritualise all that has not happened to make it APPEAR the end had come and gone, But that would be a huge mistake.
Your gonna have to explain all the inconsistencies and the fact that many events have yet to take place. Not to mention the fact, were IMPOSSIBLE to take place in ad 70 otherwise, your fighting a losing battle.
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This is why these conversations get so frustrating.
People can read and see many things said have yet to happen. And could not have happened. Yet people will still focus on one sentance or one words, take them out of context. Then attack the other person saying they are calling someone some name or whatever. .
All you have to do is read. And you can see certain events have not happened yet. And in fact COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET (the technology was not yet invented)
You can not make things appear to happen that has not happened.
No he is not a false prophet. Because to those who are living at the time of those events, and who are experiencing the great tribulation and Gods wrath at that time, The time will come quickly.
Context means everything.
People can read and see many things said have yet to happen. And could not have happened. Yet people will still focus on one sentance or one words, take them out of context. Then attack the other person saying they are calling someone some name or whatever. .
All you have to do is read. And you can see certain events have not happened yet. And in fact COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET (the technology was not yet invented)
You can not make things appear to happen that has not happened.
No he is not a false prophet. Because to those who are living at the time of those events, and who are experiencing the great tribulation and Gods wrath at that time, The time will come quickly.
Context means everything.
First and foremost, the idea that the end came and went in 70 A.D. is idiotic.....
Second....before the body presence "coming" of Christ there is a list of events that have not happened yet......
Third....practically speaking, the only ones that place Revelation being written before 70 A.D. are the same ones that peddle the first on this list
Fourth.....It is pure ignorance to reject that we have had almost 2000 years of history with ALL the signs listed taking place with ever increasing occurrence and severity which JESUS himself called BIRTH PAINS.....I.E. Wars, rumors of wars, famines, diseases etc......
One news worthy ITEM this week......A massive locust plague hitting parts of the Middle East, Saudi Arabia etc.......<----JOEL said that before the GREAT DAY of the LORD what would take place.....?
For the NAYSAYERS....NOT saying that it is a fulfillment of JOEL.....just an interesting tidbit of INFO.....made me think of JOEL immediately.......
Second....before the body presence "coming" of Christ there is a list of events that have not happened yet......
Third....practically speaking, the only ones that place Revelation being written before 70 A.D. are the same ones that peddle the first on this list
Fourth.....It is pure ignorance to reject that we have had almost 2000 years of history with ALL the signs listed taking place with ever increasing occurrence and severity which JESUS himself called BIRTH PAINS.....I.E. Wars, rumors of wars, famines, diseases etc......
One news worthy ITEM this week......A massive locust plague hitting parts of the Middle East, Saudi Arabia etc.......<----JOEL said that before the GREAT DAY of the LORD what would take place.....?
For the NAYSAYERS....NOT saying that it is a fulfillment of JOEL.....just an interesting tidbit of INFO.....made me think of JOEL immediately.......
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