Purity - Without being purified do we know anything

[7seasrekeyed]

I think I did have you on ignore a while back. I took you off ignore, not remembering why I had you on ignore...now I know why.
Thank you for quoting me.this time.
Cessationist? Why do you ask? It never crossed my mind. That's a low priority topic with me.
The way you quoted me in post #96, gave me no notification that someone had quoted me and next time I'll just let it sit.
I don't care for these personal barbs, but if you want to discuss a topic then fine, I'm willing.

childish

do you suppose Santa won't leave any gifts in December if you have me on ignore?

move on. and thanks for answering the question I already knew the answer to

so like I said, move on. I'm certainly fine with it

 

[crossnote]

childish

do you suppose Santa won't leave any gifts in December if you have me on ignore?

move on. and thanks for answering the question I already knew the answer to

so like I said, move on. I'm certainly fine with it

ho hum more personal barbs. I guess I hit a nerve.

 

[crossnote]

My summary is simple: Impure - judged, sent to destruction, pure - saved, walking with Jesus.

Those in Christ are pure by virtue of the Blood of the Lamb.

Impurity is such an important issue, but today with water to cleanse us from taps, washing
hands, bathing, clean clothes, soap, hot water, we take purity and cleansing for granted.
With pornography and films showing so much sex and violence, it is hard not to be polluted with
the evil in our minds and hearts that flows so regularly around us.

That's why the continual washing with the word is so important..?

John 13:10 NASB
[10] Jesus said to him, "He who has been bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

But God is clear. No compromise on purity. We cannot see God without being pure.

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4

27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life
Rev 21

Again, it sounds like we need to reach a state of sinless perfection to be saved.
His blood not only cleanses us and purifies us but presents us spotless before the Throne.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Those in Christ are pure by virtue of the Blood of the Lamb.
That's why the continual washing with the word is so important..?

John 13:10 NASB
[10] Jesus said to him, "He who has been bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."

Again, it sounds like we need to reach a state of sinless perfection to be saved.
His blood not only cleanses us and purifies us but presents us spotless before the Throne.

I am not sure we understand the words sinless perfection. This is always said in a negative way.
Jesus walked with disciples and did not continually correct them, rather He laid out the principles.
They found it hard to be able to forgive a brother who sinned against them. But after the cross,
with the Holy Spirit flowing through us, things have changed. I am becoming convinced the problem
is our perception of what is the problem. If we speak in love, live in love and praise of Christ, working
to see things prosper and the needs of others are met,

Now impurity is something we need to not be living in. Is this so difficult? Or has the poverty of peoples
experiences become only extreme expressions of desire make an impact? And I think this summaries the
issue for man, they are so dull and under wraps, only extreme situations cause a stir in their hearts.

 

[crossnote]

I am not sure we understand the words sinless perfection. This is always said in a negative way.
Jesus walked with disciples and did not continually correct them, rather He laid out the principles.
They found it hard to be able to forgive a brother who sinned against them. But after the cross,
with the Holy Spirit flowing through us, things have changed. I am becoming convinced the problem
is our perception of what is the problem. If we speak in love, live in love and praise of Christ, working
to see things prosper and the needs of others are met,

Now impurity is something we need to not be living in. Is this so difficult? Or has the poverty of peoples
experiences become only extreme expressions of desire make an impact? And I think this summaries the
issue for man, they are so dull and under wraps, only extreme situations cause a stir in their hearts.

Well I'll sum up.
Sinless perfection, or living sinsless in this life is impossible.
We are a project under construction by virtue of the fact of the new nature and His Spirit's abiding presence in us.
Any living in gross immorality had better questioniey areeven born again...whether they are even in the faith.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Well I'll sum up.
Sinless perfection, or living sinsless in this life is impossible.
We are a project under construction by virtue of the fact of the new nature and His Spirit's abiding presence in us.
Any living in gross immorality had better questioniey areeven born again...whether they are even in the faith.

I ask simply my friend, what is cleansing? If we are truly cleansed and purified, we are without sin.
If we stumble we have then become defiled. We can then confess our sin and receive forgiveness to
obtain cleansing.

Now a lot of believers claim they are not truly cleansed, but Jesus declares otherwise.
It is how Jesus said, your sins are forgiven.

 

[crossnote]

I ask simply my friend, what is cleansing? If we are truly cleansed and purified, we are without sin.
If we stumble we have then become defiled. We can then confess our sin and receive forgiveness to
obtain cleansing.

That's the catch, as no one is without sin...
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1Jn 1:8)

Now a lot of believers claim they are not truly cleansed, but Jesus declares otherwise.
It is how Jesus said, your sins are forgiven.

Positionally (in Christ), we have died to sin (Rom 6) and the law (Rom 7), but in our everyday lives the battle continues... Eph 6:10-18 and Gal 5:17.

If we were pure, Jesus would not have told us to daily ask for forgiveness of our sins. Mt 6:12

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That's the catch, as no one is without sin...
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1Jn 1:8)
Positionally (in Christ), we have died to sin (Rom 6) and the law (Rom 7), but in our everyday lives the battle continues... Eph 6:10-18 and Gal 5:17.
If we were pure, Jesus would not have told us to daily ask for forgiveness of our sins. Mt 6:12

I think there are two aspects. Knowing we are always in need of forgiveness, always close to failure,
knowing that nothing can be taken for granted, does not mean we have not been cleansed and pure,
it is just we never truly know, only God can say such a thing.

The debt of forgiveness is eternal, so we cannot Lord it over someone because we have been forgiven
that which deserves death, we are not our own, we are bought with a price.

I think the mystery is knowing we are close to this place of danger and failure yet God has kept us.
But this is always a place we need to be aware of, and not give up, or give in to the passions that
so quickly overwhelm and drag us away.

This is so far from some who seem to be happy to stay in sin and evil behaviour hurting others and
causing problems without any recognition that this does not have to be the way they walk.
The cross is so deep and profound, yet it seems not to stir them, and such terrible accusations quickly
come to their conversation, as if this is Gods way of life. So I desire to aim for perfection, to see Christ
more fully expressed in my words and deeds as I grow in Him, Amen.

And listen to the apostles, purity was their heart, nothing less.

 

[crossnote]

This is so far from some who seem to be happy to stay in sin and evil behaviour hurting others and
causing problems without any recognition that this does not have to be the way they walk.
The cross is so deep and profound, yet it seems not to stir them, and such terrible accusations quickly
come to their conversation, as if this is Gods way of life. So I desire to aim for perfection, to see Christ
more fully expressed in my words and deeds as I grow in Him, Amen.

Nothing wrong with aiming for perfection as that was Paul's attitude...

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Php 3:12-15)

And that's where the word 'perfect' comes into play. But notice, Paul says although he strives for such, he has yet to attain it.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Nothing wrong with aiming for perfection as that was Paul's attitude...

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Php 3:12-15)

And that's where the word 'perfect' comes into play. But notice, Paul says although he strives for such, he has yet to attain it.

What is apparent is some think because the walk is this tension between arriving and progressing,
they say no point in trying, because any failure is total failure.

What I have discovered is the person who starts is not the person who finishes, because we change,
we are transformed, we are not the person who began our walk.

So if one takes the legalistic approach, what we will become is only when we die, staying here covered
by Christs love is enough. I suspect that the truth is we are dead if we say this, because it is another
way of saying I can stay as I am and have everything eternally without any cost.

 

[crossnote]

What is apparent is some think because the walk is this tension between arriving and progressing, they say no point in trying, because any failure is total failure.

That's a strange and unbiblical way of thinking.

What I have discovered is the person who starts is not the person who finishes, because we change, we are transformed, we are not the person who began our walk.

Definitely so we are those who have been born again.

So if one takes the legalistic approach, what we will become is only when we die, staying here covered
by Christs love is enough. I suspect that the truth is we are dead if we say this, because it is another
way of saying I can stay as I am and have everything eternally without any cost

To me the legalistic approach is attempting to live the Christian life in one's own strength, whether through God's law or man made law. As I have said, there should be a change of heart towards God, a desire to please Him here and living in His grace through the Gospel.
Our life here must be covered by the perfect righteousness (imputed) of Christ, or we will be found eternally lost in God's Judgment there.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That's a strange and unbiblical way of thinking.

Definitely so we are those who have been born again.

To me the legalistic approach is attempting to live the Christian life in one's own strength, whether through God's law or man made law. As I have said, there should be a change of heart towards God, a desire to please Him here and living in His grace through the Gospel.
Our life here must be covered by the perfect righteousness (imputed) of Christ, or we will be found eternally lost in God's Judgment there.

Being true to God from the heart is walking with Jesus. Being transformed changes our hearts,
changes what we do and how we do it. But if we limit ourselves, and think that is all there is
this never happens and we never progress. What is staggering, is how we believe we have arrived,
yet are not prepared to let Jesus change and challenge us. It does not take a genious to realise
until we take His ways seriously, and believe we can walk in them we are just playing games.

 

[crossnote]

Being true to God from the heart is walking with Jesus. Being transformed changes our hearts,
changes what we do and how we do it. But if we limit ourselves, and think that is all there is
this never happens and we never progress. What is staggering, is how we believe we have arrived,
yet are not prepared to let Jesus change and challenge us. It does not take a genious to realise
until we take His ways seriously, and believe we can walk in them we are just playing games.

I'm not sure if your comments are directed at me or you are just 'tossing them out there' and hopes someone responds. So, I'll pass for now.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I'm not sure if your comments are directed at me or you are just 'tossing them out there' and hopes someone responds. So, I'll pass for now.

15 When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you;
even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood;
16 wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong,
17 learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.
18 "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land;
Isaiah 1

God simply calls us to do good. It is not hard, it is what in Christ we are called to do. Amen.

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue
from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?
1 Peter 3

This is not a difficult concept, it is what every child is taught to do as a youngster, yet
here on a christian forum it appears to be something impossible to accept or even do?

Who truly knows Christ?