Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[garee]

uh huh. it is

but Jesus said He had to return to the Father for the Holy Spirit to descend

but the Holy Spirit does not save people. the blood of Christ shed for our sins is the only way to God.

no one receives the Holy Spirit without first accepting Christ and understanding what He did for us

they did not receive the indwelling Spirit of God, until the day of Pentecost AFTER Jesus ascended

there is such a thing as protocol in scripture and there is not evidence that the disciples received the
Holy Spirit at that time

the evidence of them receiving the Holy Spirit is on the day of Pentecost

Blood represents Spirit, just as in the same way as water.Two metaphors to express the unseen work of God.

While the life of the flesh is in the blood .Literal blood is not the source, it must be poured out at the foot of the altar as did Christ so that it can return fro where it was formed.

God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire that would stand between God not seen and man seen . The Old testament refers to that kind of a fleshly mediator a daysman . The Pope shoes fits so he wears it having received his 15 min of fame.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Jesus ascended to sprinkle His blood on the alter in heaven to complete the atonement. Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the disciples in the upper room. Jesus forbid them to touch Him at the open tomb but He showed them His hands and side that same day in the evening.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

right

please provide the scripture that states Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the disciples in the upper room. scripture states the door was locked and says nothing about the upper room. Acts records the upper room where those gathered received the Holy Spirit

19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven
John 20



Jesus forbade MARY to touch Him. no one else was there. the disciples came after

11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”

“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”

16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

John 20


I'll go with the Bible version of events and frankly, I'm not interested in getting into a loose/loose debate with you

I've had enough of those already. you wrote above what you believe, without scripture and looking at scripture, we can see you are wrong in what you wrote

so, this not something that needs debating as scripture is plain enough and although you believe yourself to be correct, again, I will stick with the biblical record

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Blood represents Spirit, just as in the same way as water.Two metaphors to express the unseen work of God.

While the life of the flesh is in the blood .Literal blood is not the source, it must be poured out at the foot of the altar as did Christ so that it can return fro where it was formed.

God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire that would stand between God not seen and man seen . The Old testament refers to that kind of a fleshly mediator a daysman . The Pope shoes fits so he wears it having received his 15 min of fame.

I think you have veered off course from the op

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Limbo would be more like. What does the sign confirm. Belief or unbelief?

Its really not that difficult if you would compare the spiritual understanding to the same or faith to faith. Why some refuse to mix faith in what we see or hear can make a difference on the outcome. . I would think we should be careful on how we say we hear. Its there that the father of lies can get his foot in the door.

Find out what the sign confirms by first looking to the foundation of the doctrine and then look to where that law is added and more information to make certain the sign confirms what the word of God declares?

I will add a little color as it seems some get those who; "yet for all that (God rebuking them in unbelief) mixed with those who do have faith..

They as it seems still make the word of God to no effect by their oral tradition of men . Orange can be the traditions of men as oral . Green the tradition of God having to do with scripture or prophecy after the manner of tongues. One of the many manners God did bring prophecy.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Isaiash 28:11-13

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians14: 21-22

yeah ok

I've read all that a number of times in your posts and do not agree with your interpretation of Isaiah connecting it with tongues in the NT and stating that it was only for the unbelieving Jews

while you ignore anything Paul said

so let's just move on please. I do not have time to go over everything again and it would be fruitless anyway

have a great rest of the day

 

[Wansvic]

Praise God!

Amen!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Jesus ascended to sprinkle His blood on the alter in heaven to complete the atonement.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have never read this that I am aware of. Do you mind posting the scripture that this comes from?

 

[PennEd]

I have never read this that I am aware of. Do you mind posting the scripture that this comes from?

I believe he is stretching this passage in Hebrews a bit too much:

Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be [j]purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

you choose to be a pig

that was on purpose. you have said more than you know and illustrated why you call yourself loco and dirtman

clean up your own mess. it's good to leave that post because it shows what really is going on with you

What more contrition is required than to recognize the authority of the one who offered correction, accepting the correction, and admitting that it don't belong and asking the only one with authority to do so to remove it?
Isn't that the very image of what a Christian is?

Or is it the rankor of mercilessness displayed here by you?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I believe he is stretching this passage in Hebrews a bit too much:

Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be [j]purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

I see. I will have to back up from verse 23 and see what the therefore is there for and try to get the big picture.
Thanks.

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit into the disciples in the upper room.

This is not accurate:

This event took place shortly after Jesus resurrection when the disciples were hiding in fear of the authorities. The total effusion of the Holy Ghost did not take place during this event as evidenced by the record in Acts 2:1:4.

John 20:18-22
Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

The Word clearly expresses that the individuals were filled with the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1-4
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

 

[Wansvic]

1 Cor 14: 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 ¶ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

How does what you claim as an experience align with what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I spoke in an unknown tongue that was interpreted by another individual in a church setting:

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." 1 Cor 14:26-28

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I spoke in an unknown tongue that was interpreted by another individual in a church setting:

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." 1 Cor 14:26-28

I think he asked what was the interpretation of what you spoke in tongues on that day? I'm interested too. What was the interpretation if you don't mind sharing?

 

[garee]

I knew the following experience came directly from God due to Paul's insight about Spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians:

A few years back God imparted the Spiritual gift of tongues upon me that was interpreted by another for edification of the church body. I had not been seeking the gift, however, while praising God in the worship service He decided to flow through me and speak a message to the congregation.

As I was praising God I could feel His presence stronger than in times past; so strong in fact, I sensed something was definitely different but had no idea what was going on. As I praised the Lord someone to my left began to speak in tongues. I remember thinking Lord if that is what you wanted me to do I would have done that. Immediately the individual stopped speaking. I felt what can only be described as an internal explosion; a feeling of complete fullness that my body could not contain. To my utter dismay the fullness began pouring out in the form of tongues. There I was, normally the shy, quiet one, loudly proclaiming half of a message that was afterward interpreted for God’s children. I say half, because the interpretation began, and part way through, the message continued after a short pause. The proclaimed message began with the other individual and was picked up and concluded through me.

On the drive home I could not help re-living the incident over, and over in my mind. I was amazed at what had occurred. I questioned the Lord about the explosive feeling. His answer was, “I consumed the sacrifice.” I was in awe. I realized that God would only use my vocal cords to speak to His people if I was willing for Him to do so.

I would ask, in regard to what you stated above .You had made unknown sounds that was interpreted by the private interpretation of another. How would that relate to what we are informed of in 2 Peter?

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If warned of the motive of operation of antichrists that were there ( 1 John2:26-27)as those who say we need as a must a man to teach us. Why would he lift that warning rather than use it to help guard against false prophecy? Its easy to be led astray . Thank God, like David declared in the Psalms' …"When I awake you are still there". Today= green grass. In that way his love has awakened us so. Today gets our hearts soft before our feet can hit the green. Look up from where the light comes from.

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts Hebrew4 :7

I would offer as we know experience is not the validator of the spiritual unseen things of God. Jesus established that by example in Mathew 4. Therefore establishing the one possible source of Christian faith . As it is written. Three times the Holy Spirit moved the Son of man .(Mat.4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.)

In that sense it makes me wonder that when Christ does come on the last day .Will he find the hidden peal of faith or a old outdated religious book that has been replaced by the gospel of experience ….... Surely you will not die .....ssssssss

 

[stonesoffire]

I Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

You make the assumption that tongues are the best gifts when much of the narrative teaches something else. The more excellent way is not tongues which have ceased.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Do you say that you and your group walk in this love of the excellent way?

I've seen judgemental religiousness bordering on hate.

 

[stonesoffire]

I would ask, in regard to what you stated above .You had made unknown sounds that was interpreted by the private interpretation of another. How would that relate to what we are informed of in 2 Peter?

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If warned of the motive of operation of antichrists that were there ( 1 John2:26-27)as those who say we need as a must a man to teach us. Why would he lift that warning rather than use it to help guard against false prophecy? Its easy to be led astray . Thank God, like David declared in the Psalms' …"When I awake you are still there". Today= green grass. In that way his love has awakened us so. Today gets our hearts soft before our feet can hit the green. Look up from where the light comes from.

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts Hebrew4 :7

I would offer as we know experience is not the validator of the spiritual unseen things of God. Jesus established that by example in Mathew 4. Therefore establishing the one possible source of Christian faith . As it is written. Three times the Holy Spirit moved the Son of man .(Mat.4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.)

In that sense it makes me wonder that when Christ does come on the last day .Will he find the hidden peal of faith or a old outdated religious book that has been replaced by the gospel of experience ….... Surely you will not die .....ssssssss

Garee, answer this truthfully....

In your meetings do you worship in Spirit and truth?

You too Roger.

 

[Dino246]

I've been thinking you have a wrong perception of what Paul is addressing in 1 Cor 14. Now it is clear you cannot understand. You cannot understand that 1 Cor 14 is corrective and not prescriptive. Verse 20 be not children in understanding.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What I cannot understand is how a person who claims to write "For the cause of Christ" can be so unChristlike in his comments. Grow up.

 

[notuptome]

I spoke in an unknown tongue that was interpreted by another individual in a church setting:

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." 1 Cor 14:26-28

So you negate vs 33-34 with your interpretation of vs 26-28?

According to scripture you were out of order. Does the Holy Spirit create these conflicts?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

What I cannot understand is how a person who claims to write "For the cause of Christ" can be so unChristlike in his comments. Grow up.

When God steps on your toes through His word it is to move you into the center of His will. If God ceases to step on your toes then you have real problems.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

I think you are leaving out the most important part of this story.

Tell us what the message was to your congregation, that you spoke in tongues, as interpreted by someone else.

Unfortunately, I don’t know the interpretation. I was tempted in the past to contact the church and request a copy of the service in hopes of hearing what God spoke through me. Upon the realization that the message was not meant for me but rather those gathered there that day I never pursued it.

The relevance of the experience for me that day was God’s gracious confirmation that He does indeed use our physical body to speak to others.

Thinking back on the experience my focus was directed toward the infusion of God’s Spirit into my body and its effect. It was so profound that my entire body vibrated. After the message was given I sat down, bowed my head, and clasped my hands together until the shaking subsided.

The entire incident left me in a state of wonder.

 

[Wansvic]

So you negate vs 33-34 with your interpretation of vs 26-28?

According to scripture you were out of order. Does the Holy Spirit create these conflicts?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I had never, nor was I at the time pursuing the Spiritual gift. I just happened to be a willing and available vessel for God to speak through that day.

There is no conflict. Paul stated that being out of order is when a person speaks in an unknown tongue and their is no one present to interpret.