The Believers and The Bride of Christ...The Navy and The Navy Seals...

[Lafftur]

Can you explain what a navy seal is.

Arent we all sealed with the name of God on our foreheads or is that only the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel. Are you saying its the church and Israel? Some believe they are separate and some believe they are the same.

There's the Bridegroom though in Matt 25 and virgins. IMO, virgins would be those who are 100 fold, and possibly is 144,000 spoken of in Revelations too. Filled with oil, Holy Spirit. The Bride.

Hello Lanolin,

There are a few videos on Youtube that explain what a Navy Seal is and some of the extra training they go through that a Navy soldier does not. Most of the training of the Navy Seals is not known publicly. Navy Seals are an elite military fighting force that are called upon for military missions that are usually not publicly known.

Navy Seals go through much more than a Navy soldier and they cannot become a Navy Seal without first being a Navy soldier.

Much like the Bride of Christ, one must first be a Believer, then the Father allows pressures and storms of this life, much suffering/training yet, the Father is choosing a Bride for His Son. No worries, no one is better or more special than any other, just called and equipped by God, for God's purposes....

As for the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel......... I think @dcontroversal has an excellent theory that explains them. It's very quite possible that dc is correct!

 

[posthuman]

Yes, that's right. But, there is also a great multitude worshipping before this happening.

Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, ​

pure as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?​

(Song of Songs 6:10)​

 

[posthuman]

There's the Bridegroom though in Matt 25 and virgins.

the bride is never mentioned, and it is the bridesmaids who the Bridegroom takes - all those with oil.

IMO, virgins would be those who are 100 fold, and possibly is 144,000 spoken of in Revelations too. Filled with oil, Holy Spirit. The Bride.

He has perfected forever all who are being made holy --

NAS Exhaustive Concordance​

Word Origin:​

from teleios​

Definition:​

to bring to an end, to complete, perfect​

NASB Translation:​

accomplish (2), accomplished (1), finish (1), fulfill (1), full number (1), made perfect (4), made...perfect (1), make...perfect (1), make perfect (1), perfect (2), perfected (7), reach...goal (1), spending the full number (1).​

​

 

[Lanolin]

Hello Lanolin,

There are a few videos on Youtube that explain what a Navy Seal is and some of the extra training they go through that a Navy soldier does not. Most of the training of the Navy Seals is not known publicly. Navy Seals are an elite military fighting force that are called upon for military missions that are usually not publicly known.

Navy Seals go through much more than a Navy soldier and they cannot become a Navy Seal without first being a Navy soldier.

Much like the Bride of Christ, one must first be a Believer, then the Father allows pressures and storms of this life, much suffering/training yet, the Father is choosing a Bride for His Son. No worries, no one is better or more special than any other, just called and equipped by God, for God's purposes....

As for the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel......... I think @dcontroversal has an excellent theory that explains them. It's very quite possible that dc is correct!

Ok thanks for that. Maybe DC can have a crack at answering the questions in my new thread. If he or she is here. I do know that in Israel they train all those for their military. Its compulsory. It seems they need to have a trained army/defense because they have so many enemies.
In some countries this is completely voluntary.

 

[CherieR]

I know that often times in wedding vows it will be " For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness or health, till death do us part". However in the relationship between Christ and the church there is no death till us part. Rather when you belong to God, he is always with you no matter what and nothing will separate us from his love not even death but rather forever with him in heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

I've enjoyed all your comments and everyone is free to believe according to their faith so, no need to be upset.

I just often ponder and ask the Lord a lot of questions during the day..............

Why did Yeshua/Jesus on rare secret healings and mt. of transfiguration only take with Him Peter, James and John. There were 12 disciples yet, He would only take those same three.

In the Song of Solomon, the Shulamite searches for her Beloved and speaks to the virgins and daughters of Jerusalem - virgins and daughters of Jerusalem are clean and holy yet, they are not the Shulamite.

All believers are called into the Kingdom of God but, I do not believe that all are the Bride of Christ. In the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, not all those in attendance are the Bride but, all have been called to the Supper, to the celebration.

Yeshua/Jesus spoke a parable......

Matthew 22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

When Yeshua/Jesus told this parable, I believe He was speaking of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb that His Father was preparing for His Son. Notice in the parable there are guests that are given a wedding garment to wear to the marriage but, they are not the bride.

The Marriage of the Lamb is discussed in Revelation 19.

Revelation 19:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

If all believers are saved by grace, why does Yeshua/Jesus in the seven letters of Revelation Ch. 2 and 3 speak to us about doing works to overcome and receive special rewards and if we don't overcome there is a consequence?

We know that we are saved by grace. I do not believe that any true believer loses their salvation. Why do those letters mandate that we overcome?

These 7 letters are calling the Bride. The Bridegroom is calling for His Bride....... The Bride will hear the voice of her Beloved.......... and make haste!

No one is more special than the other.......I'm simply saying that if when you read the 7 letters and you hear what the Spirit is saying, do it!

I love to wake up early b4 the sun comes up and worship the Lord. Usually with paul wilbur. His presence and anointing are all that really matter. Sometimes i am so moved and worship loudly in the woods behind my house. The bride is obcessed with her groom,Jesus. The bride says come NOW. The bride is not a label,we know who we are and our relationship is intimate.
Those hanging around the cross are religious. No intimacy. They hope Jesus comes not so soon. It is no coincidence the city of David is being excavated. It is in union with the bride being brought forth in unison. Both being prepared.
When a virgin was brought to the king,she went through washings and preparations to be intimate with the king. His bride is being prepared.

 

[Absolutely]

There are guests at the wedding. Who are they?

In ruth,the bride is gentile and the jew,naomi, is critical in the connection with boaz. Apparently the Jew is with boaz and ruth in the redeemed land boaz purchases.
2 covenants are present in the end of ruth.
1]marriage
2]lineage

2 separate covenants working toward one purpose.

 

[Absolutely]

I know that often times in wedding vows it will be " For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness or health, till death do us part". However in the relationship between Christ and the church there is no death till us part. Rather when you belong to God, he is always with you no matter what and nothing will separate us from his love not even death but rather forever with him in heaven.

This is not directly related to your post,but it appears that any who love this life,hold it as precious, are somehow in a major quandary. "they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony ,and they loved not their lives unto death."
The 3 Hebrew children told Nebuchadnezzar "oh,He is able to deliver us,BUT EVEN IF HE DOES NOT,we still ain't gonna bow"
(their lives were not precious to them)
I get a little teary eyed at those of such commitment and bravery.
Foxxes book of martyrs is almost like scripture to me....a kinda holy ground.

 

[Absolutely]

Interesting the correlation of "bride" and "seals".

The bride are the ones sealed.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ever ask God if there is a difference between a Believer and The Bride of Christ?

I have. The answer I got was.... “All Navy soldiers are Navy soldiers but, are all Navy Seals?”

The seven letters in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation are calling to The Bride from among all Believers.....

All Believers receive salvation and various rewards but, are all the Bride of Christ?

The Bride must endure and overcome everything written in those seven letters. She will pass through the fiery furnace 7 times.....

Don’t be dismayed if other Christians seem to have hardly any trials and you so often feel overwhelmed, forgotten or abandoned.... remember that the Navy Seal must suffer more and overcome more.

All is well. You shall be what God has created you to be, in the Name of Yeshua/Jesus, amen.

Hello Lafftgur,

All believers, regardless of whether they brought forth some 30, some 60 and some a 100 fold of spiritual fruit, all belong to the bride of Christ. To be clear, the thief on the cross who said "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," but could not come down from the cross to do any good works, or be baptized, belongs to the bride of Christ. There is nothing in scripture that would suggest that there is two classes of believers, one a common believer and one the bride. In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, he says:

"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."

Would that mean that only the Corinthians are to be considered as the bride of Christ? Also regarding the bride, John the Baptist said the following:

=====================================================

A dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan (Jesus), the One you testified about —He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. He must increase; I must decrease.

====================================================

Therefore, based on the above, everyone going to Jesus is the bride, even those who have a fingernail hold on faith, or the person who comes to Christ and dies the next day. Everyone who takes part in the resurrection of the dead and those still alive in Christ at the time of the resurrection, all make up the bride. The bride is made up of every believer in the church.

At the time that the Lord appears and gathers the church/bride, that brings an end to the church/bride. Now that said, those who become believers after the church has been gathered, are not the church/bride, but are referred to as the great tribulation saints (Rev.7:14). These are those who will have not been believers prior to the gathering of the church, but will believe in Christ after that event and during the tribulation period. This is the same group which the antichrist/beast is given authority over to make war and conquer during the last 3 1/2 years of that last seven year period (Rev.13:5-7).

 

[Absolutely]

Hello Lafftgur,

All believers, regardless of whether they brought forth some 30, some 60 and some a 100 fold of spiritual fruit, all belong to the bride of Christ. To be clear, the thief on the cross who said "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," but could not come down from the cross to do any good works, or be baptized, belongs to the bride of Christ. There is nothing in scripture that would suggest that there is two classes of believers, one a common believer and one the bride. In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, he says:

"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."

Would that mean that only the Corinthians are to be considered as the bride of Christ? Also regarding the bride, John the Baptist said the following:

=====================================================

A dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan (Jesus), the One you testified about —He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. He must increase; I must decrease.

====================================================

Therefore, based on the above, everyone going to Jesus is the bride, even those who have a fingernail hold on faith, or the person who comes to Christ and dies the next day. Everyone who takes part in the resurrection of the dead and those still alive in Christ at the time of the resurrection, all make up the bride. The bride is made up of every believer in the church.

At the time that the Lord appears and gathers the church/bride, that brings an end to the church/bride. Now that said, those who become believers after the church has been gathered, are not the church/bride, but are referred to as the great tribulation saints (Rev.7:14). These are those who will have not been believers prior to the gathering of the church, but will believe in Christ after that event and during the tribulation period. This is the same group which the antichrist/beast is given authority over to make war and conquer during the last 3 1/2 years of that last seven year period (Rev.13:5-7).

Well,not really.
Wasn't it the corinthians that were the carnal christians?
I think there is a verse in 1 or 2 corinthians where it states "some are saved as through fire,they come in ,but their works are burned"
And as lafftur said,not all went into raise the dead or were allowed to the mt of transfiguration.
The 5 foolish virgins were excluded from the marriage chamber.
So,not all are the bride,especially those christians with hidden,habitual sin. They stay behind to face antichrist.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well,not really.
Wasn't it the corinthians that were the carnal christians?

They're still Christians. There is no category of common Christian vs. the bride. Anyone who is apart of the church is the bride.

I think there is a verse in 1 or 2 corinthians where it states "some are saved as through fire, they come in ,but their works are burned"

The information above should be applied to all Christians. Each believer will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ, where our works will go through the fire. Every work that makes it through the fire we will receive reward for. But any work that doesn't will be burned up and we will suffer loss of reward. However, since we are not saved by works, though some get burned up, we will escape the fire, because we are saved by grace through faith and not by works.

And as lafftur said,not all went into raise the dead or were allowed to the mt of transfiguration.

Only Peter, John and James went up the mount and witnessed Jesus in His glorified state. For what reason scripture does not elaborate. However, it does not suggest that they were a higher level of Christian's than the other 8 because of it.

The 5 foolish virgins were excluded from the marriage chamber.
So,not all are the bride,especially those christians with hidden, habitual sin. They stay behind to face antichrist.

The five foolish virgins were excluded because they had no oil, which the scripture reveals as being those who were not watching and ready. This infers that they went back into the world and were living according to the sinful nature, which is why Jesus warns us about the following:

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

Those people who go back to willfully living according to the sinful nature will not be caught up when the Lord appears and are therefore not apart of the church. But as far as those who are living in faith, watching and ready, regardless of how much faith, they are also apart of bride. Believers don't have a quota of good works that they must meet that would grant them status in order to be a part of the bride. Good works are followed by faith and are for the purpose of glorifying God, as well as building up our treasures in heaven.

For all true believers, regardless of their level of faith, all apart of the bride.

 

[Lafftur]

Hello Lafftgur,

All believers, regardless of whether they brought forth some 30, some 60 and some a 100 fold of spiritual fruit, all belong to the bride of Christ. To be clear, the thief on the cross who said "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom," but could not come down from the cross to do any good works, or be baptized, belongs to the bride of Christ. There is nothing in scripture that would suggest that there is two classes of believers, one a common believer and one the bride. In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, he says:

"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."

Would that mean that only the Corinthians are to be considered as the bride of Christ? Also regarding the bride, John the Baptist said the following:

=====================================================

A dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the issue of ceremonial washing. So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan (Jesus), the One you testified about —He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. He must increase; I must decrease.

====================================================

Therefore, based on the above, everyone going to Jesus is the bride, even those who have a fingernail hold on faith, or the person who comes to Christ and dies the next day. Everyone who takes part in the resurrection of the dead and those still alive in Christ at the time of the resurrection, all make up the bride. The bride is made up of every believer in the church.

At the time that the Lord appears and gathers the church/bride, that brings an end to the church/bride. Now that said, those who become believers after the church has been gathered, are not the church/bride, but are referred to as the great tribulation saints (Rev.7:14). These are those who will have not been believers prior to the gathering of the church, but will believe in Christ after that event and during the tribulation period. This is the same group which the antichrist/beast is given authority over to make war and conquer during the last 3 1/2 years of that last seven year period (Rev.13:5-7).

Ahwatukee, thank you for your post. I understand that you believe the scriptures say that all believers are the Bride of Christ and I understand this can be a controversial subject.

I believe that all believers are saved but, not all are the Bride of Christ.

It's okay that we disagree. We can only believe according to our faith which is truth that has been made known to us by the Holy Spirit, not the wisdom of man. No matter what the scriptures say or how many years we have studied, we can't understand them correctly without the Holy Spirit.

For instance - the 7 year tribulation. Yeshua/Jesus fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years and the anti-christ will also get 3 1/2 years. Most believe the 7 years are consecutive but, they are not. How did I get this? I read and study the scriptures but, I don't rely on my understanding. I ask the Holy Spirit questions constantly while I'm reading the Bible and He just simply tells me. My heart seeks the truth, not my head.

Sounds like foolishness, I know but, I'm believing according to the faith that has been given me.

Why did John the Baptist call himself the "friend" of the bridegroom? It's the Father that chooses all believers and out of all the believers, He chooses a Bride for His Son. All believers come to Yeshua/Jesus but, not all are the Bride.

Well,not really.
Wasn't it the corinthians that were the carnal christians?

I think there is a verse in 1 or 2 corinthians where it states "some are saved as through fire,they come in ,but their works are burned"
And as lafftur said,not all went into raise the dead or were allowed to the mt of transfiguration.

The 5 foolish virgins were excluded from the marriage chamber.

So, not all are the bride,especially those christians with hidden,habitual sin. They stay behind to face antichrist.

I enjoyed your post, too Absolutely.

It's really not for us to say who is the Bride and who is not - only the Father knows the Bride He chooses for His Son.

The Bride cannot be carnal - she has to pass through those 7 letters to the 7 churches - she has to overcome.

 

[posthuman]

she has to pass through those 7 letters to the 7 churches - she has to overcome.

To Philadelphia He says they will not go through the tribulation..

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

To some in Thyatyria He says they will go through the tribulation..

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works



So how does the bride do both?

 

[Lafftur]

To Philadelphia He says they will not go through the tribulation..

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

To some in Thyatyria He says they will go through the tribulation..

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works



So how does the bride do both?

There is a "secret" to how the Bride passes through Philadelphia - the church of "brotherly love"........... it is going all the way back to "first love." Without "first love," there will never be "brotherly love."

First and foremost, passionate, deep love for God must be thriving in us..........in your heart, ponder the story of Mary and Martha and ask the Lord questions about "first love".........enjoy!

Let the Holy Spirit speak to you about these 7 letters....... Yeshua/Jesus tells us that he that has an ear, hear what the Spirit is saying........

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

unfortunately this spirit isnt aware that all true believers are part of the body of Christ, the bride of Christ, the saved. there is no saved and supersaved.
this is the same mistake of the people who teach some people have 50% Holy Spirit and some have 100% and you need to get 'filled' with the Spirit after you've been saved for a decade.... either you have it, or not. there is no inbetween.
i will stick with what the bible teaches rather than extra-biblical revelations.
if you arent in the body of Christ you arent saved and no reward is coming. be not deceived

I have to agree, here (at least, in what I *think* you are saying ).

I have only skimmed through this thread very quickly, so thought I would just add my two cents (on the general topic).

I believe all who are saved (in "this present age [singular]") WILL go in the Rapture (at which time then the judgment seat of Christ [bema of Christ] takes place--for "the Church which is His body" [who, I believe, is the "Bride/Wife [singular]" referred to in Rev19:7 and "aorist" already having taken place in heaven at the time of Rev19--With Rev19:9, being distinct, refers to "those [plural, i.e. "guests (plural)] having been invited to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER of the Lamb" (that is, they will have been being INVITED to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom and invited all through the 7 tribulation years, AFTER our Departure/Rapture)--the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" parables[etc] in the gospels pick up at the point in time FOLLOWING His "RETURN" to the earth [thus are not portraying our "Rapture," but His coming to the earth as an "ALREADY-WED Bridegroom"--NO "bride/wife [singular]" is being referred to in those passages-- Matt25:1-13 / Matt22:8-14 / Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal]).

So the problem comes in when we fail to distinguish things that are not referring to the same thing, and instead blur things altogether as if they were all speaking of the same thing (or as if everything pertains to "the Church which is His body" [aka "the Bride/Wife [singular]"--the SINGULAR "a chaste virgin" spoken of by Paul in 2Cor11:2 ["I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present A CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ"]).

The gospels where speaking of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" are speaking of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (and are not speaking of our Rapture, nor of "the MARRIAGE" itself. These folks never lift off the earth to "the meeting the Lord IN THE AIR [AS ONE--the ONE BODY]" as we ["the Church which is His body"] do; These folks will either be "the righteous [saved]" who will enter the MK age, or not [meaning some are unsaved/not saved--those who die during the trib will be "resurrected," and those who live through the entire time will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing (and these, Jesus said, "shall never die"--because He Himself will be reigning and present there)]).

The phrase "the Church which is His body" [all saints of "this present age [singular]" and to whom the "Rapture" SOLELY pertains] is not the same thing as saying "the churchES" (like in Rev2-3 [i.e. or referring to a church in a particular locale]). "The Church which is His body" is made up of ONLY "believers/true saints/the saved"... whereas "the churchES" consist of both believers/saints AND those who are not truly saved/those who come in His name but who are not vitally connected with Him [Jesus Christ], i.e. what is sometimes called Christendom... so Rev2-3 should be understood in this way. IOW, the "lukewarm," for example, is not "saved persons" who don't "measure up" in some particular way, but are instead "unsaved" persons (those not vitally connected with Christ ["IN Christ"], those not having trusted in Christ and His finished work alone, for salvation [but "faith PLUS [something/anything else]").

If we "blur together" these things which should be distinguished, a whole bunch of faulty ideas result, such as the Partial-Rapture Theory, the Millennial-Exclusion Theory [that any member of "the Church which is His body" may be excluded from the MK time period], and a number of other mis-applications and so forth...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT: I didn't write the following portion very clearly and must clarify:

These folks will either be "the righteous [saved]" who will enter the MK age, or not [meaning some are unsaved/not saved--those [RIGHTEOUS/SAVED] who die during the trib will be "resurrected," and those [RIGHTEOUS/SAVED] who live through the entire time will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing (and these, Jesus said, "shall never die"--because He Himself will be reigning and present there)]).

… I mean to say, that ONLY the "righteous [saved]" enter the MK time period [added here in my quote ^ "RIGHTEOUS/SAVED"]… the way I had written it in the previous post could easily have been mistaken to be understood that all enter the MK (saved and unsaved), but that's not what I meant to convey. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

 

[Lafftur]

I have to agree, here (at least, in what I *think* you are saying ).

I have only skimmed through this thread very quickly, so thought I would just add my two cents (on the general topic).

I believe all who are saved (in "this present age [singular]") WILL go in the Rapture (at which time then the judgment seat of Christ [bema of Christ] takes place--for "the Church which is His body" [who, I believe, is the "Bride/Wife [singular]" referred to in Rev19:7 and "aorist" already having taken place in heaven at the time of Rev19--With Rev19:9, being distinct, refers to "those [plural, i.e. "guests (plural)] having been invited to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER of the Lamb" (that is, they will have been being INVITED to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom and invited all through the 7 tribulation years, AFTER our Departure/Rapture)--the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" parables[etc] in the gospels pick up at the point in time FOLLOWING His "RETURN" to the earth [thus are not portraying our "Rapture," but His coming to the earth as an "ALREADY-WED Bridegroom"--NO "bride/wife [singular]" is being referred to in those passages-- Matt25:1-13 / Matt22:8-14 / Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal]).

So the problem comes in when we fail to distinguish things that are not referring to the same thing, and instead blur things altogether as if they were all speaking of the same thing (or as if everything pertains to "the Church which is His body" [aka "the Bride/Wife [singular]"--the SINGULAR "a chaste virgin" spoken of by Paul in 2Cor11:2 ["I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present A CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ"]).

The gospels where speaking of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" are speaking of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (and are not speaking of our Rapture, nor of "the MARRIAGE" itself. These folks never lift off the earth to "the meeting the Lord IN THE AIR [AS ONE--the ONE BODY]" as we ["the Church which is His body"] do; These folks will either be "the righteous [saved]" who will enter the MK age, or not [meaning some are unsaved/not saved--those who die during the trib will be "resurrected," and those who live through the entire time will enter the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of bearing children/reproducing (and these, Jesus said, "shall never die"--because He Himself will be reigning and present there)]).

The phrase "the Church which is His body" [all saints of "this present age [singular]" and to whom the "Rapture" SOLELY pertains] is not the same thing as saying "the churchES" (like in Rev2-3 [i.e. or referring to a church in a particular locale]). "The Church which is His body" is made up of ONLY "believers/true saints/the saved"... whereas "the churchES" consist of both believers/saints AND those who are not truly saved/those who come in His name but who are not vitally connected with Him [Jesus Christ], i.e. what is sometimes called Christendom... so Rev2-3 should be understood in this way. IOW, the "lukewarm," for example, is not "saved persons" who don't "measure up" in some particular way, but are instead "unsaved" persons (those not vitally connected with Christ ["IN Christ"], those not having trusted in Christ and His finished work alone, for salvation [but "faith PLUS [something/anything else]").

If we "blur together" these things which should be distinguished, a whole bunch of faulty ideas result, such as the Partial-Rapture Theory, the Millennial-Exclusion Theory [that any member of "the Church which is His body" may be excluded from the MK time period], and a number of other mis-applications and so forth...

^ EDIT: I didn't write the following portion very clearly and must clarify:



… I mean to say, that ONLY the "righteous [saved]" enter the MK time period [added here in my quote ^ "RIGHTEOUS/SAVED"]… the way I had written it in the previous post could easily have been mistaken to be understood that all enter the MK (saved and unsaved), but that's not what I meant to convey. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

Thank you for sharing your understanding of the scriptures with us!

 

[KnowMe]

 

[KnowMe]