The Gospel continues to be misunderstood

[Nehemiah6]

Even though the Gospel is quite simple, it continues to be misunderstood and/or misrepresented. Many people are not sure to this day whether salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption, or whether baptism is necessary for salvation, or perhaps other good works, or the sacraments, are necessary for salvation. Then there are some who claim that God arbitrarily elects some for salvation, and others for damnation (which would be a violation of the character of God as well as a travesty of the Gospel). Therefore we need to be clear from Scripture are to what exactly is the Gospel, and how God saves sinners purely by His grace.

1. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (1 Tim 1:15)

2. God sent His Son into the world so that the whole world of humanity would be saved: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

3. Sinners are saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and calling upon the Name of the Lord: And [he] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... [no mention of baptism at this point, but baptism must follow immediately, as seen in the next few verses]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 16:30,31; Rom 10:9-13).

4. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures... And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4; Rom 4:22-25)

5. We are saved (justified) by grace through faith in Christ alone, and His finished work of redemption, not by works of righteousness which we have done: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God... For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Rom 5:1,2; Eph 2:8,9)

6. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins and for salvation: And [Christ] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Lk 24:46,47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).

 

[notuptome]

The gospel is well understood. It is rejected because it causes darkness to flee.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[MattforJesus]

Out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, works, charity is the greatest.

And faith works by love.

We are saved by grace through faith.

Everything stems from love, which can only be done in action, works, which is why it is called charity, which John said love not in word, and in tongue, but love in deed, and in truth.

And Paul said without charity, they are nothing, and erred from the faith.

And James said without charity their faith is dead.

Without love, then there is no faith, then their is no grace.

Jesus told the first Church in Revelation that they left their first love, and to repent and do the first works, or He would remove their candlestick out of it's place.

And told the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God, and to repent, or He would come upon them as a thief, and they would not know the hour.

Paul said we are saved by faith, and not by works, which this is when we first confessed Christ for we were in the flesh, and have not received the Spirit yet, so all we can do is have faith, and none of our works of the flesh can save us.

But then Paul speaks according to the Spirit, that without works of love then we are nothing, and have erred from the faith.

Love is greater than faith, so we have to have works of love to have faith applied in our life.

Jesus said we must be born of the water, and the Spirit.

The Bible tells of the flood how 8 people were saved, and then says that baptism does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

And if we are buried with Christ in baptism, planted together with Him, we shall also rise to newness of life with Him.

I know people believe that works does not save them, but water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

For Jesus is a human, and we must identify with the man Christ Jesus, who died, we repent and die out to sin, and was buried, which we are buried with Him, water baptism, and rose from the dead, which we receive the Spirit, and rise to newness of life.

And I know that some mention the thief on the cross, but Jesus had not died yet, and baptism in Jesus' name was not preached yet, until Peter spoke the first message to be baptized in Jesus' name, and also people that died believing in Jesus was saved without being water baptized, for Old Testament saints are saved, so surely they are saved too without water baptism, and the thief could do nothing about water baptism anyway for he was on a cross.

We for sure have to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, and repent of our sins, but water baptism can be bypassed in certain circumstances.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all water baptized in Jesus' name, for it is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again in Jesus' name.

Repent, water baptism, and receiving the Spirit are all part of the Gospel, and the plan of salvation.

It could be that the people who were not water baptized with no fault of their own, cannot dwell with Jesus until the dead are resurrected to be judged, then they can be with Jesus, for it was not their fault for not being water baptized.

For not everybody has Christ preached to them, and accepts, that is at a Church that water baptizes, or on the street, or elsewhere not at a Church, and they may have been at a Church that says it is not necessary, and did not come to the truth and died, but if it is no fault of their own, God knows, then they should still be saved.

 

[notuptome]

Out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, works, charity is the greatest.

And faith works by love.

We are saved by grace through faith.

Everything stems from love, which can only be done in action, works, which is why it is called charity, which John said love not in word, and in tongue, but love in deed, and in truth.

And Paul said without charity, they are nothing, and erred from the faith.

And James said without charity their faith is dead.

Without love, then there is no faith, then their is no grace.

Jesus told the first Church in Revelation that they left their first love, and to repent and do the first works, or He would remove their candlestick out of it's place.

And told the fifth Church that He did not find their works perfect before God, and to repent, or He would come upon them as a thief, and they would not know the hour.

Paul said we are saved by faith, and not by works, which this is when we first confessed Christ for we were in the flesh, and have not received the Spirit yet, so all we can do is have faith, and none of our works of the flesh can save us.

But then Paul speaks according to the Spirit, that without works of love then we are nothing, and have erred from the faith.

Love is greater than faith, so we have to have works of love to have faith applied in our life.

Jesus said we must be born of the water, and the Spirit.

The Bible tells of the flood how 8 people were saved, and then says that baptism does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

And if we are buried with Christ in baptism, planted together with Him, we shall also rise to newness of life with Him.

I know people believe that works does not save them, but water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

For Jesus is a human, and we must identify with the man Christ Jesus, who died, we repent and die out to sin, and was buried, which we are buried with Him, water baptism, and rose from the dead, which we receive the Spirit, and rise to newness of life.

And I know that some mention the thief on the cross, but Jesus had not died yet, and baptism in Jesus' name was not preached yet, until Peter spoke the first message to be baptized in Jesus' name, and also people that died believing in Jesus was saved without being water baptized, for Old Testament saints are saved, so surely they are saved too without water baptism, and the thief could do nothing about water baptism anyway for he was on a cross.

We for sure have to confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, and repent of our sins, but water baptism can be bypassed in certain circumstances.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all water baptized in Jesus' name, for it is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again in Jesus' name.

Repent, water baptism, and receiving the Spirit are all part of the Gospel, and the plan of salvation.

It could be that the people who were not water baptized with no fault of their own, cannot dwell with Jesus until the dead are resurrected to be judged, then they can be with Jesus, for it was not their fault for not being water baptized.

For not everybody has Christ preached to them, and accepts, that is at a Church that water baptizes, or on the street, or elsewhere not at a Church, and they may have been at a Church that says it is not necessary, and did not come to the truth and died, but if it is no fault of their own, God knows, then they should still be saved.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Men hate God until they see the goodness of God in the sacrifice of Christ to save them from their sins. Unsaved men do not love anything or anyone but themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Blik]

The misunderstanding I see is how the fact of needing to repent of sin as the fact that we are not saved through our obedience to God are facts that are mixed up together to create fallacy. Both are true, both are the way God works.

We are not divine so we can be accounted as sinless. Christ was divine and could pay for our sins, it is only through what Christ did for us that we can have our sin wiped out and become righteous.

We must trust in this, we must accept the payment of our sins by Christ. But, as one example of how it works, if we find that we have pleasure in gossip about other people that harms them and want to keep that sin because we like it and find it useful, then Christ cannot forgive sin we mean to keep.

The new testament tells of how the old testament was fulfilled, so to find out just what it fulfills we need to go to the old testament. Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system explained in the old testament. It goes into great detail about what Christ fulfilled. To learn about all Christ does better and more, we need to read just what Christ fulfilled as written for us in the old testament.

 

[SpoonJuly]

As I see it-----------
Most of the misrepresenting is the result of greed. Ain't a lot of money in preaching the truth.
Most of the misunderstanding is the result on improper study and even more so, the lack of any study.
What I have noticed is that most people simply repeat what they have been taught. And most teachers are ignorant of the Gospel truth.

 

[dcontroversal]

As I see it-----------
Most of the misrepresenting is the result of greed. Ain't a lot of money in preaching the truth.
Most of the misunderstanding is the result on improper study and even more so, the lack of any study.
What I have noticed is that most people simply repeat what they have been taught. And most teachers are ignorant of the Gospel truth.

MANY........are simply removed from the simplicity that is found in Christ......the bible is clear....It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

IT is that SIMPLE.....and yet it gets conflated with works, getting wet, religious hoop jumping, sacraments, church membership, charismatic outbursts etc...........

HE THAT BELIEVES ON THE SON IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE.......it is not that difficult!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Paul said we are saved by faith, and not by works, which this is when we first confessed Christ for we were in the flesh, and have not received the Spirit yet, so all we can do is have faith, and none of our works of the flesh can save us.

So this is step #1. We are saved by grace through faith, and as a result we are also regenerated and become "new creatures in Christ".

But then Paul speaks according to the Spirit, that without works of love then we are nothing, and have erred from the faith.

And this is what new creatures in Christ will do -- works of love by the power of the Spirit.

But this is not what keeps us saved. We are kept by the power of God through faith also:
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Pet 1:5)

 

[Guojing]

6. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins and for salvation: And [Christ] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Lk 24:46,47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30)

Technically, that passage you quoted requires water baptism for the remission of sins. Yet, you dropped that term in your title.

So, in your view, is water baptism also necessary for salvation? If one is not water baptized, he cannot be considered saved?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Technically, that passage you quoted requires water baptism for the remission of sins. Yet, you dropped that term in your title.

Correct. I did not include water baptism, even though on the surface it appears that water baptism is necessary for the remission of sins and receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost. But this tells us that we cannot focus on just once passage to arrive at the truth.

So we then see that Peter is involved in another scenario where the gift of the Holy Spirit is given FIRST, the evidence of that is presented to all, and then Peter commands water baptism. Naturally, without the remission of sins through repentance and faith, the Holy Spirit would not be given.

ACTS 10
42 And he [Christ] commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

So, in your view, is water baptism also necessary for salvation? If one is not water baptized, he cannot be considered saved?

The above passage should teach us that (a) water baptism is not necessary for salvation and (b) water baptism is necessary for the one who has been saved by grace, because it is a commandment of Christ (Mt 18:18-20). Water baptism is external evidence of an inner reality.

 

[Guojing]

Correct. I did not include water baptism, even though on the surface it appears that water baptism is necessary for the remission of sins and receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost. But this tells us that we cannot focus on just once passage to arrive at the truth.

So we then see that Peter is involved in another scenario where the gift of the Holy Spirit is given FIRST, the evidence of that is presented to all, and then Peter commands water baptism. Naturally, without the remission of sins through repentance and faith, the Holy Spirit would not be given.

ACTS 10
42 And he [Christ] commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The above passage should teach us that (a) water baptism is not necessary for salvation and (b) water baptism is necessary for the one who has been saved by grace, because it is a commandment of Christ (Mt 18:18-20). Water baptism is external evidence of an inner reality.

The problem with this view is that more than one passage established that water baptism seems to be necessary to be saved. Other than Acts 2, the passage that Christians from denominations that hold that view, such as the baptist churches as well as Church of Christ, is the version of the Great commission found in Mark. It explicitly stated that you need to believe AND be baptized to be saved.

I am aware that people have tried to overcome that difficulty by changing what Mark really meant to write, by rephrasing it as you have attempted, that those who believe in Christ SHOULD then be baptized AFTER they are saved.

But that, to a normal reader, is distorting what Mark actually wrote.

And interestingly you quoted Acts 10, when there was a shift after Stephen was stoned, but that is another topic that I will not bring up for now.

 

[fredoheaven]

The problem with this view is that more than one passage established that water baptism seems to be necessary to be saved. Other than Acts 2, the passage that Christians from denominations that hold that view, such as the baptist churches as well as Church of Christ, is the version of the Great commission found in Mark. It explicitly stated that you need to believe AND be baptized to be saved.

I am aware that people have tried to overcome that difficulty by changing what Mark really meant to write, by rephrasing it as you have attempted, that those who believe in Christ SHOULD then be baptized AFTER they are saved.

But that, to a normal reader, is distorting what Mark actually wrote.

And interestingly you quoted Acts 10, when there was a shift after Stephen was stoned, but that is another topic that I will not bring up for now.

A clearer passage would be seen here of repentance

Acts 20: 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[cv5]

The problem with this view is that more than one passage established that water baptism seems to be necessary to be saved. Other than Acts 2, the passage that Christians from denominations that hold that view, such as the baptist churches as well as Church of Christ, is the version of the Great commission found in Mark. It explicitly stated that you need to believe AND be baptized to be saved.

I am aware that people have tried to overcome that difficulty by changing what Mark really meant to write, by rephrasing it as you have attempted, that those who believe in Christ SHOULD then be baptized AFTER they are saved.

But that, to a normal reader, is distorting what Mark actually wrote.

And interestingly you quoted Acts 10, when there was a shift after Stephen was stoned, but that is another topic that I will not bring up for now.

Baptism is essential of course. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Ritual water baptism is utterly ineffective for Salvation. It is merely a public symbolic act of witness and obedience. And no believing Christian willingly refuses water baptism then or now.

 

[Melach]

thanks for making this thread i think its good and i agree with your starter.

 

[fredoheaven]

The problem with this view is that more than one passage established that water baptism seems to be necessary to be saved. Other than Acts 2, the passage that Christians from denominations that hold that view, such as the baptist churches as well as Church of Christ, is the version of the Great commission found in Mark. It explicitly stated that you need to believe AND be baptized to be saved.

I am aware that people have tried to overcome that difficulty by changing what Mark really meant to write, by rephrasing it as you have attempted, that those who believe in Christ SHOULD then be baptized AFTER they are saved.

But that, to a normal reader, is distorting what Mark actually wrote.

And interestingly you quoted Acts 10, when there was a shift after Stephen was stoned, but that is another topic that I will not bring up for now.

Water baptisms seems to be necessary and you are quite correct but passages like Acts 2 and in Mark 16 doesn't teach baptismal regeneration at all!

 

[Blik]

I don't think the spirit of the Lord that is within us by our act of accepting Christ's payment for our sins can be expressed in legalistic language. This is the way I think it works: First we learn of Christ and put our faith in what Christ is able to do for us so we open our hearts to Him and give over all our sins that Christ pays for and makes us righteous. If that is sincerely what we do it changes our value system, it makes us a righteous person and influences all our actions. The basic reaction, and fundamental one is that we love the Lord and that love within us is expressed in love we give to others. You can tell a saved person by his love.

This new life we now live leads us to learn what the Lord wants us to do, and baptism is one of them. That isn't what saved us, but it is a result of our salvation.

 

[Guojing]

Baptism is essential of course. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Ritual water baptism is utterly ineffective for Salvation. It is merely a public symbolic act of witness and obedience. And no believing Christian willingly refuses water baptism then or now.

Personally, I have the view that water baptism was essential for salvation, since the ministry of John the Baptist.

But once the age of Grace came thru Paul, he tells us, "Christ did not send me to baptize", this practice is no longer required for anything,

Of course Christians from churches such as the Church of Christ and other denominations will certainly disagree but then again, that is to be expected.

 

[cv5]

Personally, I have the view that water baptism was essential for salvation, since the ministry of John the Baptist.

But once the age of Grace came thru Paul, he tells us, "Christ did not send me to baptize", this practice is no longer required for anything,

Of course Christians from churches such as the Church of Christ and other denominations will certainly disagree but then again, that is to be expected.

Quite impossible. By that standard, Salvation could be lost on a technicality. And the thief on the cross was lost due to incapacity.

 

[Guojing]

Quite impossible. By that standard, Salvation could be lost on a technicality. And the thief on the cross was lost due to incapacity.

Which paragraph of mine are you referring to?

 

[fredoheaven]

Personally, I have the view that water baptism was essential for salvation, since the ministry of John the Baptist.

But once the age of Grace came thru Paul, he tells us, "Christ did not send me to baptize", this practice is no longer required for anything,

Of course Christians from churches such as the Church of Christ and other denominations will certainly disagree but then again, that is to be expected.

Umm, MAD, the dry baptism, age of Grace does not begin with Paul. It begins with Christ.