Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[Melach]

Actually, I am polar opposite of Calvinism in terms of TULIP...LOL....although I do respect the "rational" conservative approach they have towards scripture.

Those in the Reformed tradition that hold of the Preterist view have not been taken in by a false prophecy concerning modern day Israel so I pay attention to what they state.

can you send me a private message? dcon and eternally-gratefull have sent me one and it has gone through, i cant do it without paying.

if you were a calvinist can you tell me what made you stop it? if you could pm me.

i dont quite understand some points either like the L is just completely unbiblical i dont see it and T is over-exaggereted like you cant even pick up the phone when someone calls you. irresistable grace is also weird because i think the most resisted thing in world is God's grace.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Interesting note from Eusebius, is that he understands the destruction of the temple and destruction of Jerusalem to be the fulfillment of the 2nd coming:

When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, (413) the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_de_10_book8.htm

 

[UnderGrace]

i like you a lot. you are very sweet and friendly.

are you a calvinist yourself? they are usually not as sweet as you, im surprised. i see you post first sproul then spurgeon, both calvies so i ask.

i agree amill case is also strong, like the dispensational case. i think all the theories have merit or else they wouldnt exist.

my favorite about amill view is this, when you have someone ask you what happens next its very easy you dont need charts or any long teaching. you can just tell them look listen Jesus returns soon and will do final judgment on humanity, God has appointed a day to judge everyone and then we go to lake of fire or new heaven and new earth. and today is day of salvation no second chances in millennium or after rapture.

thats easy to say to anyone. you can prove it by just reading the sheep and goats to them, very fast and they get it. matthew 25:31-46. i know the premill have different look on that, but i would say that amill is the way any man reads those verses if he isnt provided with outside influences or scriptures. but only that part.
(just like people read revelation 20 in premill way if no other verses or outside influence is presented, nobody ever gets to amill by just reading revelation 20, in my opinion) to be fair.

i am just writing my thoughts i dont know why. im a very lonely man so i like to write here lolz. have a blessed day/night everyone.

And you should write here, share your ideas.

As believers we live in a lonely world, yet we are still blessed beyond measure to know Christ....He was also acquainted with much sorrow... we know He is able to comfort each of us in our various trials.

 

[UnderGrace]

can you send me a private message? dcon and eternally-gratefull have sent me one and it has gone through, i cant do it without paying.

if you were a calvinist can you tell me what made you stop it? if you could pm me.

i dont quite understand some points either like the L is just completely unbiblical i dont see it and T is over-exaggereted like you cant even pick up the phone when someone calls you. irresistable grace is also weird because i think the most resisted thing in world is God's grace.

Yes I will.

 

[UnderGrace]

Interesting note from Eusebius, is that he understands the destruction of the temple and destruction of Jerusalem to be the fulfillment of the 2nd coming:

When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, (413) the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_de_10_book8.htm

When one reads the accounts it was utterly horrific.

500 crucifixions a day, they ran out of room to put the people and then they gutted them while they were still alive looking for treasure.

 

[UnderGrace]

Interesting note from Eusebius, is that he understands the destruction of the temple and destruction of Jerusalem to be the fulfillment of the 2nd coming:

When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, (413) the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_de_10_book8.htm

More from the historian Josephus.....

In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by the smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror.

"Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves and for your children; for, behold, the days are coming in which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the breasts that never gave suck." Luke xxiii. 29.

 

[UnderGrace]

Interesting note from Eusebius, is that he understands the destruction of the temple and destruction of Jerusalem to be the fulfillment of the 2nd coming:

When, then, we see what was of old foretold for the nations fulfilled in our own day, and when the lamentation and wailing that was predicted for the Jews, and the burning of the Temple and its utter desolation, can also be seen even now to have occurred according to the prediction, surely we must also agree that the King who was prophesied, (413) the Christ of God, has come, since the signs of His coming have been shewn in each instance I have treated to have been clearly fulfilled.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_de_10_book8.htm

Mr. Azam, those that make light of the First Jewish War (66 -73 BC) the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple have neglected their history books as well.

 

[garee]

That wall is not the Temple wall, and Jesus knew exactly what he was stating and there is no indication that was a metaphor/hyperbole or figurative language given the context and the historical records bear out the Temple was completely destroyed.

There shall not be one stone left here, they were at the Temple when He made the statement, he was not telling a parable.

I would suggest we walk by faith the unseen spiritual understanding and not in the use of metaphors like a visible temple .

Of course its a parable which without Christ spoke not.

No one is saying it was not destroyed. The temple worship was destroyed when the veil was rent, rendering the stone walls useless. Stones are used to represent foundations just like the foundation of lively stone that make up the spiritual house of God not seen, the church .

The use of the metaphor served its purpose. The time of reformation had come. No longer using that seen to represent the true Holy place as that not seen

It would be a abomination of desecration if it was standing in the true holy place of faith . That period of time previous to the reformation is used as a parable for the time previous, it came to a end.

 

[UnderGrace]

I would suggest we walk by faith the unseen spiritual understanding and not in the use of metaphors like a visible temple .

Of course its a parable which without Christ spoke not.

No one is saying it was not destroyed. The temple worship was destroyed when the veil was rent, rendering the stone walls useless. Stones are used to represent foundations just like the foundation of lively stone that make up the spiritual house of God not seen, the church .

The use of the metaphor served its purpose. The time of reformation had come. No longer using that seen to represent the true Holy place as that not seen

It would be a abomination of desecration if it was standing in the true holy place of faith . That period of time previous to the reformation is used as a parable for the time previous, it came to a end.

Okay I agree that the time of the physical temple is done.

 

[garee]

"Heaven and Earth" in Jewish writings refers to the Temple that is the place where heaven and earth met.
Here..I think Spurgeon makes a good case.

C.H. Spurgeon said:

Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).​

If we did live in the new heavens and earth .Then we have received the promise of our new incorruptible bodies described as neither male or female Jew or gentile. If that is the case them maybe the LGBT community has it right and us Christians are behind the times..

Corruption do is not clothed in the incorruptible. One replaces the other entirely. There will be no flesh and blood in the new order as rudiments of this world .We know not Christ after the things seen. It will go up in smoke never to appear again

1 Corinthians 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Mr. Azam, those that make light of the First Jewish War (66 -73 BC) the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple have neglected their history books as well.

For the record, premill/pre-tribbers also acknowledge that Jesus referred to this, here:

--on the very day that He fulfilled the 69 Weeks (what we call 'Palm Sunday,' when He also fulfilled Zech9:9 "THY king cometh UNTO THEE" ["thee" = "Jerusalem" (that to which the "70 Wks" prophecy especially pertained/pertains)]), He had said the words found in Lk19:41-44 -

[see ALSO Luke21:23,20 in the 70ad section of the Olivet Discourse [21:12-24]; AND in Matt22:7, same as the following):

--"Lk19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

--Lk21:23,20 [in the "70ad" section of the Olivet Discourse, Lk21:12-24 (which v.12 says must take place "BEFORE" the beginning of birth PANGS" listed in vv.8-11, just preceding]

--Matt22:7 [the 70ad events, followed by the "THEN SAITH HE to his servants..." (paralleling Rev1:1 (7:3) re: the "future" aspects of that Book [i.e. the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" aspect of the Book], written in the LATER "95ad" time slot]



... so yes, a very important part of "understanding" things aright. No doubt.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Some further thoughts on physical circumcision and Paul's argument that it is no longer valid and tied to the land promises.

Joshua had to circumcise all the males to enter the promised land:

(Josh 5:3 So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the Israelites on the Hill of the Foreskins)

(Psa 80:8 You uprooted a vine from Egypt; you drove out nations and transplanted it.)

Jesus calls himself the true vine:

(John 15:1 "I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener")

What we have is a replacement (there's the true replacement theology for you) of the vine that was brought out of Egypt with the true vine (Jesus) wherein circumcision tied to the physical land is negated (1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision ).

This is why Paul suffered greatly with his non-circumcision gospel as the Jews tied circumcision to the land.

The physical land is no longer significant as the true vine was planted in the heavens when Jesus entered the most holy place.

Therefore to look to land promises in the supposed "millennium" is an argument against Paul's non-circumcision gospel and Jesus as the true vine to which Paul stated was heir to the promises

(Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his descendant. Scripture does not say, "and to the descendants," referring to many, but "and to your descendant," referring to one, who is Christ.)

And to which Hebrews agrees:

(Heb 1:2 in these last days he has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world.)

 

[dcontroversal]

I really thought I had heard it all until I seen that heaven and earth passing away is in reference to the temple......as long as the truth, verbiage, verb tense and the word AND is rejected in favor of a man's opinion over the word.....the truth will not only be rejected, but hidden in plain sight from any and ALL that will not be open to learning and instruction!!!!

 

[iamsoandso]

Okay I agree that the time of the physical temple is done.

Not that I intend this argumentative but if you are correct in what you are saying then what temple will the AoD be set up in when the man of lawlessness comes,who recieved his mark and worshipped his image in the past?

 

[UnderGrace]

Not that I intend this argumentative but if you are correct in what you are saying then what temple will the AoD be set up in when the man of lawlessness comes,who recieved his mark and worshipped his image in the past?

Yes

 

[UnderGrace]

I really thought I had heard it all until I seen that heaven and earth passing away is in reference to the temple......as long as the truth, verbiage, verb tense and the word AND is rejected in favor of a man's opinion over the word.....the truth will not only be rejected, but hidden in plain sight from any and ALL that will not be open to learning and instruction!!!!

Okay

 

[iamsoandso]

Yes

yes? who in the past received that mark and worshiped it's image?

 

[garee]

yes? who in the past received that mark and worshiped it's image?

The mark of Cain as restless wanderer suffering the pangs of a living hell whose punishment was greater that he could bear .One the Christ alone can bear?

 

[dcontroversal]

The word.......SSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTRRRRREEEEETTTTTTCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH really comes to mind............WOW

 

[iamsoandso]

The mark of Cain as restless wanderer suffering the pangs of a living hell whose punishment was greater that he could bear .One the Christ alone can bear?

Then you will need to explain how it is that you over rule Paul saying he was going to come and sit in the temple of God in a future tense to the Thessalonians and the angel in Rev. 17 who told John the beast that was,was not yet is would ascend up out of the pit in a future tense.