Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

[oyster67]

Yes, it is an apple tree before it begins bearing apples. That's why we can come 'just as I am', like the old song says.

But if we do not begin bearing fruit after a while, their is something seriously wrong. I'm not sure if we should expect to see any works until we begin to see fruit.

 

[Macabeus]

And yet you sin in other ways every single day, Mac. And don't harp about "personal attacks" when you have no problem personally attacking - like when you called us "sharks."

When will you realize God doesn't stay with us because of our perfection, He stays with us because of His perfection - the imputed righteousness of Christ. When He said He would never leave us nor forsake us, He meant that. When Jesus said no created thing (including us - as we are created) can snatch us out of His hand, or the Father's hand, He meant that as well.

Even if we stop believing, we remain saved. "If we believe not, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." (2 Timothy 2:13)

God will chastise a wayward child, even to the point of taking them home (1 Corinthians 5: 1-5), but He will never cast us away or ever lose us.

Christians couldn't go to hell if they tried.

That would mean that Christians are not habitual liars. Because ALL liars and everyone that loves and makes a lie has their part in the lake of fire.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

They do not contradict at all. I see no contradiction.

The verb "sin" and the infinitive "to sin" are in the present tense, which sometimes indicates continual, repetitive, or iterative sinning. Some translations translate the verb and infinitive "practice sinning", and I think that is valid.

We sin, but a child of God does not wallow in sin.

As far as lying, no person can be a frequent liar unrepentantly and think he or she is right with God. So when I am called a liar, I take it as saying I am no Christian.

Really,seriously you don't see a contradiction talking about from a fleshly point of view?

If you don't see a contradiction then you may as well say that you don't ever sin after you were born again.

Don't deceive yourself,we both still are In flesh and we might have a bad thought In our minds every now and then toward someone and we should be In the process of renewing our minds to the new creation we have become,GOD justified the spirits of those who believe In HIS WORD and sealed them.

 

[oldethennew]

But if we do not begin bearing fruit after a while, their is something seriously wrong. I'm not sure if we should expect to see any works until we begin to see fruit.

==============================================================
GAL. 5:22-26.
But the fruit of the Spirit is -
love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance:
against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in The Spirit, let us also walk in The Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Oyster,
the 'Firstfruit' certainly implies a 'lot of work' - so, we can love in deed, or we can love in word,
but, 'loving-in-deed' speaks louder...

hub and I so appreciate your 'insight'...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I'm not sure if we should expect to see any works until we begin to see fruit.

We are GODs workmanship we were equipped at spiritual birth and we will display fruit If we are obedient to GOD because JESUS IS the VINE and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the vine displaying spiritual fruit.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

As far as lying, no person can be a frequent liar unrepentantly and think he or she is right with God. So when I am called a liar, I take it as saying I am no Christian.

Sounds like something Donald Trump would say.😬

 

[Macabeus]

Sounds like something Donald Trump would say.😬

So you think the bible teaches it's OK for Christians to lie then?

 

[Budman]

That would mean that Christians are not habitual liars. Because ALL liars and everyone that loves and makes a lie has their part in the lake of fire.

You sneak the word "habitual" in there as if that's the key. You are absolutely wrong. A single lie attributed to a person is enough to send them to hell. You are not taking into account the absolute holiness of God. You make it as if God judges on a sliding scale. As if a few lies are okay, but if you make it a habit, you're toast.

And you can't single out lies. ANY sin whatsoever that one owes a debt for is enough to damn them. One act of lust, one theft, one act of taking God's name in vain, etc. That's why Christians have no sin debt at all. We can never be lost. Jesus paid it completely.

 

[Budman]

Are you willing to stake your eternity on this? If so, then you are a very bold man (yes, I understand that many count boldness as a very high and great virtue.)

I have staked my eternity on the fact that my sin debt - all of it - past, present and future - was paid for through the shed blood of Jesus.

 

[Macabeus]

You sneak the word "habitual" in there as if that's the key. You are absolutely wrong. A single lie attributed to a person is enough to send them to hell. You are not taking into account the absolute holiness of God. You make it as if God judges on a sliding scale. As if a few lies are okay, but if you make it a habit, you're toast.

And you can't single out lies. ANY sin whatsoever that one owes a debt for is enough to damn them. One act of lust, one theft, one act of taking God's name in vain, etc. That's why Christians have no sin debt at all. We can never be lost. Jesus paid it completely.

Present tense in this passage indicates continuous or iterative action, not an isolated instance that one repents of, though we shouldn't even do that. (1 John 2:1)

 

[Budman]

Present tense in this passage indicates continuous or iterative action, not an isolated instance that one repents of, though we shouldn't even do that. (1 John 2:1)

Do you owe a debt to God?

 

[Macabeus]

I have staked my eternity on the fact that my sin debt - all of it - past, present and future - was paid for through the shed blood of Jesus.

That is fine. Jesus paid your debt. But He did not purchase you any indulgences. Always remember that.

 

[Macabeus]

Do you owe a debt to God?

No, all paid.

But I don't hold any indulgences from God.

 

[Budman]

That is fine. Jesus paid your debt. But He did not purchase you any indulgences. Always remember that.

What do I owe? What can I pay? If all of my sins are paid for and cast as far as the east is from the west, what can damn me?

 

[Budman]

No, all paid.

But I don't hold any indulgences from God.

Can you commit a willing sin and remain saved - even a habitual sin?

 

[Macabeus]

Can you commit a willing sin and remain saved - even a habitual sin?

Willing and habitual?

That would mean one is a WILLING slave to sin.

A Christian SHOULD NEVER be willing to be a slave to sin.

 

[Budman]

C'mon Mac. Tell me - what can damn me?

 

[Budman]

Willing and habitual?

That means you are a WILLING slave to sin.

A Christian SHOULD NEVER be willing to be a slave to sin.

You're a "willing slave" as you sin every single day as a choice.

 

[Macabeus]

You're a "willing slave" as you sin every single day as a choice.

You need to go back and read the book of Romans, particularly 6-8 a couple hundred times till you get it.

 

[Budman]

Can I ever be damned, Mac?