Not By Works
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Anyone who is not following the convo closely...I am not saying that this is how the parable is to be interpreted. I am saying that this is the conclusion you would reach if you use DC's method of interpretation on the parable of the wheat and the tares
Ie. If the fact that it takes a tree time to mature before it bears fruit means that we transpose that onto believers, then we have to transpose the fact that it only takes six or seven months for wheat to grow unto the parable of the wheat and tares.
If DC doesn't, his method of interpretation is inconsistent.
Ie. If the fact that it takes a tree time to mature before it bears fruit means that we transpose that onto believers, then we have to transpose the fact that it only takes six or seven months for wheat to grow unto the parable of the wheat and tares.
If DC doesn't, his method of interpretation is inconsistent.
New Christians can bear the type of fruit you are mentioning to. 
I believe that God never stops working in us.
So for many years we could be lacking or unaware but then God deals with it.
I tend to find that new Christians who come to Jesus who have an emotional experience preach Jesus.
I tend to find these people are the people that Jesus walked with.
The dirty, the broken hearted, the down trodden, the rejected.
Such people tend to have a lot of baggage, hurt, pain that leads to addiction, dysfunctional relationships and so on.
Then they hear about Jesus.
And it's like "Wow Jesus actually loves me, why would he love this dirty rotten sinner?
Then they gotta tell somebody.
But their life may still be the same.
That's where we come in.
Discipleship.
Those who come to Jesus generally do because of what?
I would say LOVE.
But to me we need to counsel that this love is one that wants to heal and set us free from the past so that it does not dictate our future.
As God does that then the fruit increases.
In a sense an apple farmer can't advise a orange farmer.
What use is a person who has never suffered severe sexual abuse to a person who has?
To me not much because they have never been there.
I speak from experience here.
Having suffered and now walking with those who have suffered.
God promises to work good in all things in our life. He never promised to make all the bad things good but promised to work good in them.
The reason being (and many people who quote God works good in all things do not quote the following)
"To conform us to the image of Jesus"
To me that's the Holy Spirit working in us to bear fruit.
Sorry gone off in a tangent.
It just breaks my heart that we are quick to get people into church yet condemn them because of issues that are contrary to being like Jesus.
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Not sure what your point is.
The fruit I was talking off is that spoken by Jesus and by Paul.
With regards to Matthew I think the point is that we cannot determine who is saved and who is not.
Only God can do that.
Matthew 13:23-24
23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
But maybe we need to look at the following verses.
Matthew 13:25-30
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
The fruit I was talking off is that spoken by Jesus and by Paul.
With regards to Matthew I think the point is that we cannot determine who is saved and who is not.
Only God can do that.
Matthew 13:23-24
23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
But maybe we need to look at the following verses.
Matthew 13:25-30
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”
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Mac,
I will respond to your quote above based on my experience as a guy who was the accountant for a farmer.
Yes you are right.
Wheat takes 6-7 months to grow.
But there is a reason.
You can't just drop wheat kernels on the ground and expect wheat.
The ground needs to prepared in order to plant the kernels.
If it's not then wheat will not grow.
So the soil needs to be prepared to produce wheat.
Abstract thoughts are not my strong point.
Yet I would say that today we have tares in so called churches.
The end of the age will happen when God bangs the gavel.
I will respond to your quote above based on my experience as a guy who was the accountant for a farmer.
Yes you are right.
Wheat takes 6-7 months to grow.
But there is a reason.
You can't just drop wheat kernels on the ground and expect wheat.
The ground needs to prepared in order to plant the kernels.
If it's not then wheat will not grow.
So the soil needs to be prepared to produce wheat.
Abstract thoughts are not my strong point.
Yet I would say that today we have tares in so called churches.
The end of the age will happen when God bangs the gavel.
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EVERY fruit is a result of abiding in the vine...including the fruit of the Spirit and this kind of fruit..
Romans 1: 13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
What kind of fruit is Paul talking about here? The fruit of preaching the Gospel.
Romans 1: 13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
What kind of fruit is Paul talking about here? The fruit of preaching the Gospel.
Romans 1:13 and Philippians 1:22-23 are examples of bearing fruit too, right?
Philippians 1: 22But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. 23I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. 24But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
and what is the fruit in Matthew 13:26
And the fruit in the parable of the sower is believers.
And other (SEED) fell on good ground, (receiving hearts) and did yield fruit (believers) that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, (believers bringing forth more believers) some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred. (multiplication.)
Mark 4:8
Philippians 1: 22But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. 23I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. 24But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
and what is the fruit in Matthew 13:26
And the fruit in the parable of the sower is believers.
And other (SEED) fell on good ground, (receiving hearts) and did yield fruit (believers) that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, (believers bringing forth more believers) some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred. (multiplication.)
Mark 4:8
Does the fact that it takes a tree so many years to bear fruit in nature mean that that principle should necessarily be carried over to the analogy of bearing fruit?
If so, then you have to do the same thing with wheat. You have to carry the fact that it takes only several months for wheat to grow in nature over to the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Read the parable of the wheat and tares with the assumption that we have to make the length of time for wheat to grow carry over into the meaning of the parable, and tell me what you get.
If so, then you have to do the same thing with wheat. You have to carry the fact that it takes only several months for wheat to grow in nature over to the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Read the parable of the wheat and tares with the assumption that we have to make the length of time for wheat to grow carry over into the meaning of the parable, and tell me what you get.
DC's argument is that nature tells us it takes a believer a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit because that is the case with trees in nature. ignoring the fact that bearing fruit in the grainfield (jesus speaks of grain bearing fruit) only takes months
a. Well, nature tells us that wheat only takes several months to grow.
b. So if you use his principle of interpretation, (taking every aspect of the parable literally, including the length of time until fruition ),
c. then the time elapsed in the parable of the wheat and the tares, from the planting of the tares (after the planting of the wheat) to the harvest (end of the age), only spans six or seven months.
a. Well, nature tells us that wheat only takes several months to grow.
b. So if you use his principle of interpretation, (taking every aspect of the parable literally, including the length of time until fruition ),
c. then the time elapsed in the parable of the wheat and the tares, from the planting of the tares (after the planting of the wheat) to the harvest (end of the age), only spans six or seven months.
a. Tares were already being planted in the first century.
b. Wheat only takes months to grow
c. so if you use DC and GB9's system of interpretation, the end of the age in the parable of wheat and tares, happened in the first century.
a few months after tares were planted
This is why you don't get hyper literal with parables and analogies.
Exegesis 101
b. Wheat only takes months to grow
c. so if you use DC and GB9's system of interpretation, the end of the age in the parable of wheat and tares, happened in the first century.
a few months after tares were planted
This is why you don't get hyper literal with parables and analogies.
Exegesis 101
Fruits produce works
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1 Thessalonians 1:3
Hebrews 6:10- For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1 Thessalonians 1:3
Hebrews 6:10- For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
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