Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[crossnote]

Yes this is reference to the real temple that was destroyed in 70AD.

Rev 11:1 is internal proof that this was written prior to 70AD and is reference to a real temple.

A horrific time for the Jews in Jerusalem ...the one that Jesus predicted would not be let with one stone on top of another.

So you think all the Judgments of God proceeded from the Jewish Temple in Revelation, even though it says 'in heaven'?

Revelation 11:19 (KJV) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 14:15 (KJV) And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Revelation 14:17 (KJV) And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:6 (KJV) And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Revelation 16:1 (KJV) And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

I think it would do you a heaven of good to put away your Preterist playbooks and pick up the Real Book.

 

[UnderGrace]

No

Prophesy is prophesy, The bible says if we see a prophet state a prophesy which that thing does not come true, he is a false prophet.

So why are all these OT prophecies not literally fulfilled? Making all the OT prophets false prophets

They have been fulfilled.

 

[UnderGrace]

I think it would do you a heaven of good to put away your Preterist playbooks and pick up the Real Book.

Why would I go back to the false playbook of Mr. John Darby or C.I Scofield from whence all these false ideas started.

 

[crossnote]

Why would I go back to the false playbook of Mr. John Darby or C.I Scofield from whence all these false ideas started.

Not true. It started when people took a literal approach to Scripture...by dealing with the Scriptures offered them instead of ad hominems. Believe me, it was reefreshing coming out from the yoke of amillennialism of Rome. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They have been fulfilled.

When?

When in history did the man of sin put an abomination which causes desolation in the holy place. And in a fashion that everyone can see

And when in history has war been so severe, no flesh would survive if Christ did not return to put an end to it?

And when did Isreal repent? Which cause God to remember his covenant with them, and restor them to their place. And christ himself rule on the throne in jerusalem. And whatever family does not come to worship him, God punishes by not sending rain?

I have mentioned a few prophesies here

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would I go back to the false playbook of Mr. John Darby or C.I Scofield from whence all these false ideas started.

And do what? Go to the roman church where your belief came from (It goes both ways sis, your using straw-man arguments, not real life fact. Just like me saying your belief came from the roman church would be a strawman)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not true. It started when people took a literal approach to Scripture...by dealing with the Scriptures offered them instead of ad hominems. Believe me, it was reefreshing coming out from the yoke of amillennialism of Rome. lol

If one looks at history, Ammil did not really start until one of the major theological schools switched to a symbolic interpretation of scripture. And people started following them, and stopped using the literal approach

of course, they had to. In order to integrate pagan practices into the church which is what Romes plan was. Because if they truly made the church the state religion outright, they would have had a war on their hands, by integrating pagan practices and givein them a christian name, even using their buildings as cathedrals. They made peace, and we see the end results

 

[crossnote]

When?

When in history did the man of sin put an abomination which causes desolation in the holy place. And in a fashion that everyone can see

And when in history has war been so severe, no flesh would survive if Christ did not return to put an end to it?

And when did Isreal repent? Which cause God to remember his covenant with them, and restor them to their place. And christ himself rule on the throne in jerusalem. And whatever family does not come to worship him, God punishes by not sending rain?

I have mentioned a few prophesies here

I'd also say that 70AD paled in comparison to the Holocaust of Nazi Germany when it comes to 'great tribulation'.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'd also say that 70AD paled in comparison to the Holocaust of Nazi Germany when it comes to 'great tribulation'.

What should be worrisome to all is that the great tribulation should make ww2 look like a picnic..Granted, to the believer (if we are here) it is just another form of tribulation. But to the non believer, It should give us MORE power and MORE urgency to spread the gospel.

 

[UnderGrace]

Not true. It started when people took a literal approach to Scripture...by dealing with the Scriptures offered them instead of ad hominems. Believe me, it was reefreshing coming out from the yoke of amillennialism of Rome. lol

You prefer the yoke of a future tribulation or are you waiting for the pretrib rapture nowhere to be found in scripture?

You prefer the pre-mill dogma where the Christian Zionists are colluding with the Zionists to create the ultimate slave state while believers think they will be raptured away?

What will you do when there is no rapture?

 

[UnderGrace]

I'd also say that 70AD paled in comparison to the Holocaust of Nazi Germany when it comes to 'great tribulation'.

Is that why Jesus told them to flee to the mountains, I suggest a deep study on the atrocities of Nero and his successor.

Jesus makes a very clear statement of the destruction that will befall the unbelieving Jews in Matthew.

 

[UnderGrace]

What should be worrisome to all is that the great tribulation should make ww2 look like a picnic..Granted, to the believer (if we are here) it is just another form of tribulation. But to the non believer, It should give us MORE power and MORE urgency to spread the gospel.

It has already happened.

 

[UnderGrace]

And do what? Go to the roman church where your belief came from (It goes both ways sis, your using straw-man arguments, not real life fact. Just like me saying your belief came from the roman church would be a strawman)

Ahh yes but Mr. E. G. the early church followed what was in the scripture at this point, Dispensationalism had not been invented yet.
That is the error of Darby and Scofield and Mr. Miller.

 

[UnderGrace]

When?

When in history did the man of sin put an abomination which causes desolation in the holy place. And in a fashion that everyone can see

And when in history has war been so severe, no flesh would survive if Christ did not return to put an end to it?

And when did Isreal repent? Which cause God to remember his covenant with them, and restor them to their place. And christ himself rule on the throne in jerusalem. And whatever family does not come to worship him, God punishes by not sending rain?

I have mentioned a few prophesies here

Okay okay...give me a minute I will find it for you!

 

[crossnote]

You prefer the yoke of a future tribulation or are you waiting for the pretrib rapture nowhere to be found in scripture?

You prefer the pre-mill dogma where the Christian Zionists are colluding with the Zionists to create the ultimate slave state while believers think they will be raptured away?

What will you do when there is no rapture?

Christian Zionists? Ok, I see the source now. No thanks.

 

[crossnote]

Is that why Jesus told them to flee to the mountains, I suggest a deep study on the atrocities of Nero and his successor.

Jesus makes a very clear statement of the destruction that will befall the unbelieving Jews in Matthew.

I was referring to this clear statement of Jesus...

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mat 24:21)

If you think 70AD was the greatest tribulation since the beginning to the end of the world, well, I have some fried ice cream I could sell you in Summer.

 

[UnderGrace]

When?

When in history did the man of sin put an abomination which causes desolation in the holy place. And in a fashion that everyone can see

And when in history has war been so severe, no flesh would survive if Christ did not return to put an end to it?

And when did Isreal repent? Which cause God to remember his covenant with them, and restor them to their place. And christ himself rule on the throne in jerusalem. And whatever family does not come to worship him, God punishes by not sending rain?

I have mentioned a few prophesies here

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel – let the reader understand – then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15,16, emphases mine)

“When you see Jerusalem being ‘surrounded by armies‘, you will know that its desolation is near. 21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22) For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23) How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.” Luke 21:20-23 (emphasis mine)

The temple was burned to the ground.

Yup this happened during the siege of Jerusalem, the believers however having heard the words of Jesus did manage to get out.

Jerusalem was surrounded in 68 AD no one could get in or out....there was forces starvation and people were eating each other.

In your schema, the temple has to be rebuilt to so this can happen.

When has prophecy had to be manufactured to be fulfilled in scripture, like we see presently with Mr. Hagee and his ilk.

 

[UnderGrace]

Christian Zionists? Ok, I see the source now. No thanks.

Is there another name for Christians who support the re-establishment of Israel, it is not a slur it is a descriptor?

Jews who wanted a homeland are called Zionists, that is not a slur either, just people's adding to the word.

If Israel wants a piece of land and it is negotiated politically that is one thing,however when it is tied is to prophecy then that is a separate issue I think.

 

[UnderGrace]

I was referring to this clear statement of Jesus...

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mat 24:21)

If you think 70AD was the greatest tribulation since the beginning to the end of the world, well, I have some fried ice cream I could sell you in Summer.

Jesus was talking about Jerusalem........
CITY of JERUSALEM has NOT seen a destruction on the scale of 70 A.D. since.

So even there another great tribulation is a direct contradiction to what Jesus plainly stated.

Jesus also plainly states to them which be in Judea to flee to the mountains.

 

[crossnote]

Is there another name for Christians who support the re-establishment of Israel, it is not a slur it is a descriptor?

Jews who wanted a homeland are called Zionists, that is not a slur either, just people's adding to the word.

If Israel wants a piece of land and it is negotiated politically that is one thing,however when it is tied is to prophecy then that is a separate issue I think.

It's just that when you play the Christian Zionist card in a discussion on Amill, you reveal your true colors.