Not By Works

[Macabeus]

AND....It is NOT that we LOVED GOD, but that HE loved us and GAVE HIMSELF for US......

NO ONE loves GOD unless born from ABOVE by the SPIRIT of GOD through faith.......

Who said otherwise, Mr. Scarecrow?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes I did. Read the bolded, included in context



Were her sins forgiven because she loved much? or did she love much because her sins were forgiven?

I hold the latter. The first phrase, "her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much" is descriptive

Otherwise, you have justification based on how much you love, which I don't think is Jesus' intent.

Why? Do you?

Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............

“And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.”

But whoever may keep His word, truly in him the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love

 

[Macabeus]

Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............

“And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.”

But whoever may keep His word, truly in him the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love

None of what you said has anything to do with what I said, Mr. Scarecrow.

Luke 7:47- Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

Our love is in part based on a sense of how much God has forgiven us. Justification produces love, Love produces good works. Bingo.

 

[Melach]

None of what you said has anything to do with what I said, Mr. Scarecrow.

Luke 7:47- Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

Our love is in part based on a sense of how much God has forgiven us. Justification produces love, Love produces good works. Bingo.

i hope this wont go for 20 pages like the fruit inspection topic

dear friend, sometimes we dont agree. then its best to go on. i say this in love not to spite

 

[corazondeldei]

I suspect things are slightly different.
For me love comes first. It is love that drives us to God, it is knowing we desire to resolve our
love and needs and God seems to be the source. When Jesus called the disciples it was people
who loved God. Their hearts were desiring to know Him more.

Paul though he was focused in the wrong direction loved God and wanted to see His ways work.
It is because we recognise this love, and how badly we fail that we have conviction of sin and
desire repentance. Repentance is not forced it is a reaction to seeing love in its purest form in
Christ and seeing how badly we fall short. This awareness causes us to bend and break, to fall
before the King and desire that He might raise us up.

I therefore put love first, then faith, seeing Christ is the true fulfillment of the love we desire to
see and to know, and works are this love in our hearts set free and outworking to others.
This is my testimony. What spoke to me most was Jesus's understanding, humbleness and love
for others in His daily life. What a day today to rejoice in His victory for us, over sin and death,
to rise victorious, to bring this love to our hearts that we might walk as His did and does, knowing
the Fathers will. Amen

2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing
of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing
and perfect will.
Rom 12

I have to agree that LOVE came and comes before FAITH,

NIV1984 2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. AS YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

LOVE was the commandment of God from the beginning even before this FAITH came. Jesus is the WORD in whom we put our FAITH IN...for the Glory of God. He is the WORD that became flesh and that WORD is God accdg to John 1:1-14, and that GOD is LOVE. Without LOVE how can there be faith? LOVE is greater than FAITH and GOD is LOVE...the ALPHA and the OMEGA...who is all in all...the ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD.

We cannot have FAITH in someone who is non-existent.

NIV1984 Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

NIV1984 1 John 4:7-16
God’s Love and Ours Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 13:2
...and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

NIV1984 Romans 3:3
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness?

And so Jesus said, "if you love me, you will obey what i command. John 14:15

 

[Macabeus]

i hope this wont go for 20 pages like the fruit inspection topic

dear friend, sometimes we dont agree. then its best to go on. i say this in love not to spite

I will move on, but do you see where DC is MISREPRESENTING what I say?

Where did I say we love before we are regenerated? Nowhere.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me. But misrepresenting people is eggregious

 

[Macabeus]

i hope this wont go for 20 pages like the fruit inspection topic

dear friend, sometimes we dont agree. then its best to go on. i say this in love not to spite

Do you see how DC is misrepresenting what I said? This has ALWAYS been his pattern. Tell me I'm imagining it.

 

[Macabeus]

Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............

“And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.”

But whoever may keep His word, truly in him the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love

Has nothing to do with what I said

1 John 3:14-"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death."

And no one said we love with agape before we are regenerated. Strawman alert.

 

[Guojing]

I can't get over the fact that Paul confronted James.

Paul received the revelation of the body of Christ. Something new and never before seen on earth. James doesn't speak of this. It's like a mixture.

But, it's just my own opinion. There are good sayings in it but I don't stake my walk on it.

James was writing to the 12 tribes and he has acknowledged that the apostle Paul has responsibility for the Gentiles.

We are supposed to take church doctrine from Paul

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to agree that LOVE came and comes before FAITH,

NIV1984 2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. AS YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

LOVE was the commandment of God from the beginning even before this FAITH came. Jesus is the WORD in whom we put our FAITH IN...for the Glory of God. He is the WORD that became flesh and that WORD is God accdg to John 1:1-14, and that GOD is LOVE. Without LOVE how can there be faith? LOVE is greater than FAITH and GOD is LOVE...the ALPHA and the OMEGA...who is all in all...the ALMIGHTY LIVING GOD.

We cannot have FAITH in someone who is non-existent.

NIV1984 Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

NIV1984 1 John 4:7-16
God’s Love and Ours Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 13:2
...and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

NIV1984 Romans 3:3
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness?

And so Jesus said, "if you love me, you will obey what i command. John 14:15

It is not that we loved him, but that he LOVED US and gave himself for us....

LOVE did not come before FAITH and NO ONE chose GOD out of LOVE.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you see how DC is misrepresenting what I said? This has ALWAYS been his pattern. Tell me I'm imagining it.

Listen PAL.....you are about to go bye bye if you keep lying and misrepresenting what I am saying........

 

[dcontroversal]

Folks....Macabeus keeps lying and embellishing what I say and twisting what is said to continually attack me...BELOW is the comment that started the exchange that he is now twisting...

Macabeus said:
Amen. Faith works by love. (oh by the way, faith is a fruit also)

It does not work properly where love is absent. Because he who does not love does not know God.

Faith without love is faith without works, and it is dead Faith without love is dead and fruitless.

That is pretty much the gist of what James said in James 2, isnt it? And it is in perfect agreement with Paul.

MY REPLY

Ox before the cart.....

FAITH comes before LOVE.......

It is not that we loved HIM, but that he loved us and gave himself for us

NO ONE loves GOD and or HAS the love of GOD perfected in them UNLESS they have been born again BY FAITH which IS a GIFT....YOU are conflating two separate ideas and applications.......

FAITH 1st
HOPE 2nd
LOVE 3rd

ONE cannot have #s 2 and 3 without 1........

HE is deceptive and constantly is mouthing, being deceptive and causing division.....

 

[dcontroversal]

I want to see the following quotes/verses in scripture and in context....Embellishing and adding to the word is NOT of GOD.....exactly what the snake did in the garden....

Faith without love is dead

Faith does not work properly where love is absent.

Faith without love is faith without works

 

[dcontroversal]

Has nothing to do with what I said

1 John 3:14-"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death."

And no one said we love with agape before we are regenerated. Strawman alert.

Sure it does based upon your question....

Macabeus said:


Otherwise, you have justification based on how much you love, which I don't think is Jesus' intent.

Why? Do you?

dcontroversal said:
Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............

 

[dcontroversal]

i hope this wont go for 20 pages like the fruit inspection topic

dear friend, sometimes we dont agree. then its best to go on. i say this in love not to spite

AMEN..........fully agree.....I am tired of defending what I say because it gets twisted out of context and or the original post I address gets twisted or skewed to make it say something it did not say.....

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hey everyone...We are saved...Anyone debating that fact , well you not come to Christ...

What a wonderful powerful , almighty God we serve...

I will lay my body down , flat out like a star fish , spread every inch of my body , and for the LORD Jesus Christ died for me , sometimes , I am soooooooooo sad , because He died an awful death for us...

His beard was torn from His face , He was spat on , He was mocked , let us not forget , the clubbing on His head , the spitting on His face , the scourging with bones on the ends of the whip the beat Him , may we ALL come together in our LORD Jesus Christ , who saved all us wretches like us...xox...

 

[RickyZ]

It is not that we loved him, but that he LOVED US and gave himself for us....

LOVE did not come before FAITH and NO ONE chose GOD out of LOVE.......

Listen PAL.....you are about to go bye bye if you keep lying and misrepresenting what I am saying........

I was going (try) to make a funny remark about is this dead horse still kicking, and put $20 on pre, mid, or post, D would have the last word in this thread as he's being raptured; but this was really funnier than anything I could have come up with.

Luv ya D

 

[Macabeus]

Listen PAL.....you are about to go bye bye if you keep lying and misrepresenting what I am saying........

You are lying and misrepresenting. I never said love comes before faith, nor did I say love comes before regeneration. Those claims are part of your vast strawman/scarecrow army.

 

[Macabeus]

Folks....Macabeus keeps lying and embellishing what I say and twisting what is said to continually attack me...BELOW is the comment that started the exchange that he is now twisting...

Macabeus said:
Amen. Faith works by love. (oh by the way, faith is a fruit also)

It does not work properly where love is absent. Because he who does not love does not know God.

Faith without love is faith without works, and it is dead Faith without love is dead and fruitless.

That is pretty much the gist of what James said in James 2, isnt it? And it is in perfect agreement with Paul.

MY REPLY

Ox before the cart.....

FAITH comes before LOVE.......

It is not that we loved HIM, but that he loved us and gave himself for us

NO ONE loves GOD and or HAS the love of GOD perfected in them UNLESS they have been born again BY FAITH which IS a GIFT....YOU are conflating two separate ideas and applications.......

FAITH 1st
HOPE 2nd
LOVE 3rd

ONE cannot have #s 2 and 3 without 1........

HE is deceptive and constantly is mouthing, being deceptive and causing division.....

I never said that a person loves before they are regenerate. Neither did I say that we love God before He loves us. Misrepresentations and scarecrows. As to what I said, it is all biblical.

Faith works by love. Galatians 5:6

(oh by the way, faith is a fruit also)- Galatians 5:22

It does not work properly where love is absent.- 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Because he who does not love does not know God. 1 John 4:8

Faith without love is faith without works, James 2:14-16

Faith without love is dead and fruitless. 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, James 2:14-16

James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1 John 3:18-19- Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.


1 John 4:8- He that loves not, does not know God for God is love.

2 John 1- The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; (EVERYONE who has known the truth, loves the kuria, according to John)

 

[Macabeus]

We are SAVED BY FAITH ALONE, but faith does not come alone. IT brings friends along. Like love.

1 John 3:18-19- Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him

(Note We know that we are of the truth because we love. I didn't say it, John did.)

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

(We know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren)

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

(Everyone that loves is born of God (regenerated) and knows God. What does that mean for those that don't love?


1 John 4:8- He that loves not, does not know God for God is love.

(whoever does not love, does not know God.)

2 John 1- The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;


We are SAVED BY FAITH ALONE, but faith does not come alone. IT brings friends along. Like love.