Calvinism And Predestination

[calibob]

You'd be surprised what you can learn from Google.

Equal ultimacy is the position that God is equally active in causing the salvation of the elect as He is involved in causing the damnation of the reprobate. Equal ultimacy would imply that God is actively involved in causing people to sin in order to bring about their damnation.

I've never heard of such a thing. It sounds like nonsence to me. I realize some are broken to begin with but our job is not to ignore the but to try and get them to receive salvation and baptize them. It's called the great commission. BTW I put that up here so others can see what heresy it is.

 

[John146]

You have misinformation. The KJV has simpler sentence structure, less syllables per word, and less words per sentence to start with. This is how one determines readability.

The King James Bible not only holds poetic beauty, but the words in it are easier than the new version's words. Below are just a few of the examples of the new version's using more difficult words compared to the words of the King James Bible.

Matthew 9:17 - NASV / wineskins - KJV / bottles
Matthew 1:11 - NASV / deportation - KJV / carried away
Luke 6:22 - NASV / ostracize - KJV / separate you from their company
1 Thes. 2:18 - NASV / thwarted - KJV / hindered
1 Tim. 3:3 - NASV / pugnacious - KJV / striker
1 Tim. 3:8 - NASV / sordid - KJV / filthy
1 Tim. 6:16 - NASV / a pang - KJV / sorrows
Hebrews 7:2 - NASV / apportioned - KJV / gave
Hebrews 12:1 - NASV / encumbrance - KJV / weight
Revelation 6:8 - NASV / ashen - KJV / pale
Revelation 18:1 - NASV / illumined - KJV / lightened

This is just a small sample.

 

[calibob]

Because Paul's heart was right with God. Salvation is first a matter of the heart, then actions gradually follow.

I'm not saying it can't be thrown away but that's not Gods part. It won't be taken away.

 

[Melach]

I understand this. But you don't believe in equal ultimacy, correct?

i dont know what that means. sorry.

 

[calibob]

The King James Bible not only holds poetic beauty, but the words in it are easier than the new version's words. Below are just a few of the examples of the new version's using more difficult words compared to the words of the King James Bible.

Matthew 9:17 - NASV / wineskins - KJV / bottles
Matthew 1:11 - NASV / deportation - KJV / carried away
Luke 6:22 - NASV / ostracize - KJV / separate you from their company
1 Thes. 2:18 - NASV / thwarted - KJV / hindered
1 Tim. 3:3 - NASV / pugnacious - KJV / striker
1 Tim. 3:8 - NASV / sordid - KJV / filthy
1 Tim. 6:16 - NASV / a pang - KJV / sorrows
Hebrews 7:2 - NASV / apportioned - KJV / gave
Hebrews 12:1 - NASV / encumbrance - KJV / weight
Revelation 6:8 - NASV / ashen - KJV / pale
Revelation 18:1 - NASV / illumined - KJV / lightened

This is just a small sample.

How is thou shalt not simpler than do not? Poetry does not interest me much. I'll keep my NIV, thank you very much.

 

[Macabeus]

i dont know what that means. sorry.

Calibob defined it splendidly in post 201

I imagine you would reject it, as most Calvinists do .

 

[Macabeus]

Equal ultimacy is the position that God is equally active in causing the salvation of the elect as He is involved in causing the damnation of the reprobate. Equal ultimacy would imply that God is actively involved in causing people to sin in order to bring about their damnation.

I've never heard of such a thing. It sounds like nonsence to me. I realize some are broken to begin with but our job is not to ignore the but to try and get them to receive salvation and baptize them. It's called the great commission. BTW I put that up here so others can see what heresy it is.

Yes, it is nonsense. But some falsely accuse Calvinists of believing it.

 

[John146]

How is thou shalt not simpler than do not? Poetry does not interest me much. I'll keep my NIV, thank you very much.

Thou shalt is actually more accurate than you do not. Thou and thee is singular in the English language where ye and you is plural. There are many passages in the new versions where this complicates who the audience is. By the time 1611, you was being used in a singular form, but the translators were looking for accuracy.

 

[Melach]

Calibob defined it splendidly in post 201

I imagine you would reject it, as most Calvinists do .

i do reject it. i would say it from calvinist side it means that God simply leaves sinners be.

but you know i have to say i am not a calvinist. im only learning from the subject.

 

[Macabeus]

i do reject it. i would say it from calvinist side it means that God simply leaves sinners be.

but you know i have to say i am not a calvinist. im only learning from the subject.

I am not a Calvinist either, but I have learned much from Calvinists. Their writings on sanctification are the best I have read.

 

[calibob]

Thou shalt is actually more accurate than you do not. Thou and thee is singular in the English language where ye and you is plural. There are many passages in the new versions where this complicates who the audience is. By the time 1611, you was being used in a singular form, but the translators were looking for accuracy.

Nobody talks like that any more. The language changes and the words change meanings. Do you think 21st century schools teach 16th century English?

Queer dosn't mean counterfeit any more. I prefer the term adaptation over evolution but either way, we need to speak so others understand us or we'll be like the Catholics, who say things they don't understand or explain are sacred mysteries. We must be able to share with common men not just theologians.

 

[John146]

Nobody talks like that any more. The language changes and the words change meanings. Do you think 21st century schools teach 16th century English?

Queer dosn't mean counterfeit any more. I prefer the term adaptation over evolution but either way, we need to speak so others understand us or we'll be like the Catholics, who say things they don't understand or explain are sacred mysteries. We must be able to share with common men not just theologians.

I’m glad my Bible doesn’t sound like ordinary language. We are talking abou the word of God. We can share the message easily with the common man.

 

[justpassinthrough]

this is charicature and misrepresentation of calvinism. they leave john 3:16 just as it is

its simply saying that those who believe are the elect. nothing else there.

So you believe John 3:16?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Whoever means whoever.


Believes means trust and commit to obey.


Only those who obey the Gospel, and obey the Lord will inherit eternal life.



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36





JPT

 

[calibob]

I’m glad my Bible doesn’t sound like ordinary language. We are talking abou the word of God. We can share the message easily with the common man.

Who do you witness to outside of church then? Longshoremen, fishermen, truck drivers? Have you ever served a meal at a mission or tried to share the word with someone that's a little English challenged like a foreigner? Come down to earth and serve a little.

 

[John146]

Who do you witness to outside of church then? Longshoremen, fishermen, truck drivers? Have you ever served a meal at a mission or tried to share the word with someone that's a little English challenged like a foreigner? Come down to earth and serve a little.

Absolutely my friend. I share the word and explain it if necessary. What’s so difficult about the gospel as stated in the KJV?

 

[Melach]

I’m glad my Bible doesn’t sound like ordinary language. We are talking abou the word of God. We can share the message easily with the common man.

actually. koine greek was very much common man street language.

 

[calibob]

Absolutely my friend. I share the word and explain it if necessary. What’s so difficult about the gospel as stated in the KJV?

First of all It took me years for me to study enough to understand it myself. Second when I was in my 20's I didn't know anybody who talked like that. They didn't at school, home, work, the Air Force... I read the Good News version first, then 1611KJV new testament a couple of times. Then got saved and and enrolled at the local school of the bible. They used NIV. I understand KJV myself now but I don't want to talk over anybody's head so I try and keep it simple. Saved by Grace through faith, Not by works lest anyone should boast. OSAS and take the word to the people. Love God above all and love others the same as myself.

I've worked out my salvation in fear and trembling by reading the Bible first!

 

[calibob]

In fact I'd rather speak to someone else's level so they can understand than expect them to rise to ours before they are saved. Otherwise I might as well be speaking in tongues without interpretation.

 

[calibob]

I remember looking 'shalt' up because to me it sounded like the contracton 'shall not, So I was confused because 'shalt not' sounded like a double negative.

 

[GHClarkII]

Funny, that was the theology of my immaturity and being a baby Christian.

A complete system ....easy peasy.



Now this is an interesting line.

If Armenians think they can make God "act" then on the other side Calvin makes God so preoccupied with sovereignty, that God does not even respond to faith/belief but has to provide the faith/belief so that people can be saved.

I am convinced that Calvin was a severe and judgemental man who projected his shortcomings onto God

Or he read the scriptures and saw that Jesus says we are not able by have faith without being drawn and that faith is a gift. It's funny that you accuse someone of projecting on good while you project on them. In fact it is quite hypocritical and doesn't answer any of the texts provided. That's a shame.