Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14
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How then, if it is not a "language" do you explain the countless number of times/testimonies where people have spoken in "unknown" tongues to someone who was of a different language, only to have the second person marvel about how the tongue talker knew their language and was able to tell VERY PRIVATE information about them? Example: An American woman goes on a mission trip to Africa not knowing the language. She spends time with some of the people. One night at a bible study the american begins to speak in tongues. The Africans she had spent time with marveled and asked the pastor "How is it she suddenly can speak our native language at bible study, but after cannot?"
I could fill this blog with countless testimonies of similar nature.............................
I could fill this blog with countless testimonies of similar nature.............................
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Hi, godsgirl83,
maby the solution lays in the fact, that our God is useing in mission conditions much more supernatural events, then among already believers.
The first pentecostals thought, that they could send missionaries to the country according the Missionary could speak in tongues in church. But on the Missionfield they find out that the ability to speak in their tongues was gone and the missionarys went back home disapointet.
What we are talking is not about speaking in tongues on missionfield, but as an gift every believer should have, according pentecostal and charismatic doctrines.
And this I cant find taught in the scripture. Yes, I find chapters which theme this in the corinthian church. But I cant find in any letter that every christian get this gift by baptised with the Holy Spirit.
maby the solution lays in the fact, that our God is useing in mission conditions much more supernatural events, then among already believers.
The first pentecostals thought, that they could send missionaries to the country according the Missionary could speak in tongues in church. But on the Missionfield they find out that the ability to speak in their tongues was gone and the missionarys went back home disapointet.
What we are talking is not about speaking in tongues on missionfield, but as an gift every believer should have, according pentecostal and charismatic doctrines.
And this I cant find taught in the scripture. Yes, I find chapters which theme this in the corinthian church. But I cant find in any letter that every christian get this gift by baptised with the Holy Spirit.
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I got the impression that the test subjects were speeking in a special, peculiar, God language; thus, the frontal lobes were inactive. Logical conclusion would be that it was not the subjects speaking, but some higher power speaking through them.
Yes, I have heard of God giving missionaries ability to speak in other languages as well. I think Bible mentions this also.
Yes, I have heard of God giving missionaries ability to speak in other languages as well. I think Bible mentions this also.
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I agree with you that speaking in tongues should NEVER be used as a litmus test to determine whether a person is saved or not. I did not speak in tongues the moment I first believed. I do not speak in tongues on a regular basis. The majority of people who have tried to force this upon me were obvious fakers themselves. But still, nonetheless, I KNOW that it is real. This is because I know God, and I know His Spirit. PTL!
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There are numerous stories such as these – all of them unfortunately anecdotal. There’s very little follow-up with respect to details; usually there are just generalizations. The fact that these examples are all anecdotal and not actually documented with details and seem to occur exclusively in the Pentecostal/Charismatic communities where tongues-speaking is common, makes them somewhat suspect. In addition, it always seems to be more “obscure” languages that are told of in these accounts; never something common like French or German. Often times, said accounts are given more credulity in that what was revealed to the subject were things only the subject could know.
In the more classic examples of these types of anecdotes, the languages always seem to be Hebrew or Aramaic. And of course, there always seems to be this one Jewish guy in the audience…….The Hebrew/Aramaic story has evolved to a point where it’s become, for all intents and purposes, an urban legend.
As one writer put it, very tongue in cheek: “Some say it happened a while ago to a friend's third cousin twice removed on his mother's side, and a visitor from West Bubbatania happened to be visiting and recognized the language. This visitor, of course, went back home and there's no way to verify that the anecdote actually took place; nor is there a way to ascertain any pertinent details.”
Unfortunately, I have to somewhat agree. There’s just no way to actually verify any of these stories; it essentially amounts to hearsay.
It should also be noted that in many of these examples, what was said are common praise phrases in the target language. Something anyone would tend to subconsciously pick up after hearing people repeat the same phrase numerous times week after week at church or prayer meetings, etc.
As a complete aside, I just have to say, a missionary going to a foreign country and not bothering to learn at least basic conversation in the language of the country s/he will be living in for the next X-months, is rather discourteous and rude to the people and culture in whose land s/he is a guest.
In the more classic examples of these types of anecdotes, the languages always seem to be Hebrew or Aramaic. And of course, there always seems to be this one Jewish guy in the audience…….The Hebrew/Aramaic story has evolved to a point where it’s become, for all intents and purposes, an urban legend.
As one writer put it, very tongue in cheek: “Some say it happened a while ago to a friend's third cousin twice removed on his mother's side, and a visitor from West Bubbatania happened to be visiting and recognized the language. This visitor, of course, went back home and there's no way to verify that the anecdote actually took place; nor is there a way to ascertain any pertinent details.”
Unfortunately, I have to somewhat agree. There’s just no way to actually verify any of these stories; it essentially amounts to hearsay.
It should also be noted that in many of these examples, what was said are common praise phrases in the target language. Something anyone would tend to subconsciously pick up after hearing people repeat the same phrase numerous times week after week at church or prayer meetings, etc.
As a complete aside, I just have to say, a missionary going to a foreign country and not bothering to learn at least basic conversation in the language of the country s/he will be living in for the next X-months, is rather discourteous and rude to the people and culture in whose land s/he is a guest.
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G
well, no disrespect here but I have to roll my eyes and shake my head.
throw my hands up and try to walk away......... you can not force someone to believe something. However I HAVE HEARD AND SEEN FIRSTHAND not just heard stories of "person a's brother's missionary cousin 20 years ago said............" and NOTHING ANYONE SAYS can cause me to question or doubt what the LORD HIMSELF HAS MADE KNOWN AND REAL TO ME.
Blesssings!
throw my hands up and try to walk away......... you can not force someone to believe something. However I HAVE HEARD AND SEEN FIRSTHAND not just heard stories of "person a's brother's missionary cousin 20 years ago said............" and NOTHING ANYONE SAYS can cause me to question or doubt what the LORD HIMSELF HAS MADE KNOWN AND REAL TO ME.Blesssings!
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The problem as I see it EG, is why would one not want what God shows clearly is available to His own? It's not just something we toy with. There is power associated with the giftings. All the gifts. And it's the power of Holy Spirit Himself.
Did you ever ask yourself why what Jesus said on the Cross had to be interpreted? It's ancient Chaldean according to Strongs. Also to the young girl raised from death.
Did you ever ask yourself why what Jesus said on the Cross had to be interpreted? It's ancient Chaldean according to Strongs. Also to the young girl raised from death.
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Look forward to discussing Rom 8
Just getting back to replying. Wow, the thread has been busy! Also I meant to reference Acts 8:12-17 rather than Romans.
Skipping the details, it boils down to this. When a person writes off the book (and times) of Acts as transitional, rather than a demonstration of the new covenant in operation, it also means they can disregard anything written during that time as equally transitional and disregardable. Thus there is no way to disprove that hypothesis using scripture.
The reason it can't be disproved using scripture is not to suggest that it is an argument that lines up with the scriptures, but rather the opposite. It can't be disproven using scripture because it's base supposition is that the scriptures are not to be trusted.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The problem i see is, that the way how this is taught since Agnes Ozman in 1901 I cant find in the bible.
That God uses tongues speaking in mission condition is no problem for me. In mission condition he uses many miracles.
But the teaching that tounges is combined with the baptism of the Holy Spirit i cant find in any scripture taught. Even not in the 1. Letter to the corinthians.
That God uses tongues speaking in mission condition is no problem for me. In mission condition he uses many miracles.
But the teaching that tounges is combined with the baptism of the Holy Spirit i cant find in any scripture taught. Even not in the 1. Letter to the corinthians.
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Microscopes are not considered a tool for hearing the gospel just as philosophy is not. Those who believe not have no way to understand the spiritual not seen" faith" Nothing will show in a Xray.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Did they find the foundation to the doctrine of tongues at the speech center of the brain (Isaiah 28) ? Can't find God through a microscope. We do not know him after the rudiments of this world used as sign of the things seen..the eternal Holy Place.
First question would be why as a sign against unbelievers of the whole world does he mock this people who refuse to hear the gospel ?
Once a peron determines what the sign confirms.(Unbelief) then they can turn the doctrine right side up . Yet for that they will still pretend the sign represent s a blessing and not what is clearly does.
This points to those "sign seekers" (Charismatics) hoping it will confirm the opposite of what the doctrine does reveal, looking for a little pride and call it self edification.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Did they find the foundation to the doctrine of tongues at the speech center of the brain (Isaiah 28) ? Can't find God through a microscope. We do not know him after the rudiments of this world used as sign of the things seen..the eternal Holy Place.
First question would be why as a sign against unbelievers of the whole world does he mock this people who refuse to hear the gospel ?
Once a peron determines what the sign confirms.(Unbelief) then they can turn the doctrine right side up . Yet for that they will still pretend the sign represent s a blessing and not what is clearly does.
This points to those "sign seekers" (Charismatics) hoping it will confirm the opposite of what the doctrine does reveal, looking for a little pride and call it self edification.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.