Serpent in the New Heaven and Earth.

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azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#41
Apr 3, 2019
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#41
eternally-gratefull said:
yes outside. Ie they will not get in they would be those who are cast out to eternal darkness

In Is 65 they are actually living inside

The child shall live 100 years then die. The sinner will live 100 years and be cursed

There is no more sickness no more death in the rev earth as it says there is no more curse
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You have to reconcile the two, Isaiah and Revelation are speaking of the same heaven and earth EG.

For those in Christ there is no more death, Christ has made them alive and they are a new creation,

(2 Cor 5:17 So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away - look, what is new has come!)

(John 11:26 and the one who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
#42
azamzimtoti said:
You have to reconcile the two, Isaiah and Revelation are speaking of the same heaven and earth EG.
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I disagree

One it talking about the renewed earth after Christ’s return. Rev is talking about the new earth after the reign of Christ

For those in Christ there is no more death, Christ has made them alive and they are a new creation,
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Again. In isaiah there is death

(2 Cor 5:17 So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away - look, what is new has come!)

(John 11:26 and the one who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?)
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Yes that’s why Isaiah 65 can not be eternal but physical life here on this earth which was near total destruction but restored by Christ[/QUOTE]
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#43
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
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#43
eternally-gratefull said:
I disagree
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So do I lol.

You have to reconcile Isaiah with Revelation EG.

(Isa 65:11 But as for you who abandon the LORD and forget about worshiping at my holy mountain, who prepare a feast for the god called 'Fortune,' and fill up wine jugs for the god called 'Destiny')

(Isa 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.)

After the slaying Isaiah states that God will create the new heaven and earth. So when was the previous heaven and earth created?

(Isa 51:16 “I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”)

God laid the previous heaven and earth at the giving of the Law to Israel.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
#44
azamzimtoti said:
So do I lol.

You have to reconcile Isaiah with Revelation EG.

(Isa 65:11 But as for you who abandon the LORD and forget about worshiping at my holy mountain, who prepare a feast for the god called 'Fortune,' and fill up wine jugs for the god called 'Destiny')

(Isa 65:15 You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.)

After the slaying Isaiah states that God will create the new heaven and earth. So when was the previous heaven and earth created?

(Isa 51:16 “I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”)

God laid the previous heaven and earth at the giving of the Law to Israel.
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I already did

Isaiah

Death
Sinners inside
Children will be born.

Rev

No death,
Curse is removed,
No sinners inside.

Prety big difference bro
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#45
Apr 3, 2019
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#45
The problem I see with your explanation EG is that you have two heavens and two earths. You say that Isaiah (65:17) is not the same heaven and earth as John's in the Apocalypse.

Peter states he's was awaiting the new heaven and earth (2 Pet 3:13). So my question would be which one was Peter looking for. Isaiah's or John's?

Now in regards to no more death in John's Revelation, he stated that outside the city there are dogs etc. (Rev 22:15). So my other question for you would are these sinners immortal?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
#46
azamzimtoti said:
The problem I see with your explanation EG is that you have two heavens and two earths. You say that Isaiah (65:17) is not the same heaven and earth as John's in the Apocalypse.

Peter states he's was awaiting the new heaven and earth (2 Pet 3:13). So my question would be which one was Peter looking for. Isaiah's or John's?

Now in regards to no more death in John's Revelation, he stated that outside the city there are dogs etc. (Rev 22:15). So my other question for you would are these sinners immortal?
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You have birth and death in isaiah

There is nothing left to argue. There is no birth or death in heaven. So they CAN”T be the same
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#47
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
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#47
eternally-gratefull said:
You have birth and death in isaiah

There is nothing left to argue. There is no birth or death in heaven. So they CAN”T be the same
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According to Dwight Pentecost in his book on dispensationalism "Things to come":

After the dissolution of the present heaven and earth at the end of the millennium, God will create a new heaven and a new earth (Isa. 65:17; 66:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1).

There is no more death (21:4) and since individuals will die during the millennium (Isa. 65:20) it must refer to the eternal state.

So he is claiming that Isaiah, Peter and John's are the same new heaven and earth. So this brings us back to my statement that the serpent is still alive and "kicking" in the new heaven and still eating dust.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
azamzimtoti said:
According to Dwight Pentecost in his book on dispensationalism "Things to come":

After the dissolution of the present heaven and earth at the end of the millennium, God will create a new heaven and a new earth (Isa. 65:17; 66:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1).

There is no more death (21:4) and since individuals will die during the millennium (Isa. 65:20) it must refer to the eternal state.

So he is claiming that Isaiah, Peter and John's are the same new heaven and earth. So this brings us back to my statement that the serpent is still alive and "kicking" in the new heaven and still eating dust.
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you need to explain to me why there is death and birth in heaven,

Is 65 says that babies will be born, and people will die.

And even notice, dwight pentecost even acknowledged that in Isa 65 people will die in he millennium and saying IS 65 is millennium so did he contradict himself?

By the way you do have a page number, I have that book

.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#49
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
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#49
eternally-gratefull said:
you need to explain to me why there is death and birth in heaven,

Is 65 says that babies will be born, and people will die.

And even notice, dwight pentecost even acknowledged that in Isa 65 people will die in he millennium and saying IS 65 is millennium so did he contradict himself?

By the way you do have a page number, I have that book

.
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Page 561, 569.

No he didn't contradict himself. I'm not saying there is birth and death in heaven, I'm saying there is birth and death in the new heavens and earth. The eternal state is only reached at death even though we have entered the city.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
#50
azamzimtoti said:
Page 561, 569.

No he didn't contradict himself. I'm not saying there is birth and death in heaven, I'm saying there is birth and death in the new heavens and earth. The eternal state is only reached at death even though we have entered the city.
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What???

No one will enter the new heavens and earth if rev 21 alive it will be after the judgemnt day of all people

There is no death in the millennium, that is the renewed earth of is 65, where as jesus said whoever endures to the end will be saved.

Are you premil or amil?

Thank you i will look
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#51
Apr 3, 2019
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#51
eternally-gratefull said:
What???

No one will enter the new heavens and earth if rev 21 alive it will be after the judgemnt day of all people

There is no death in the millennium, that is the renewed earth of is 65, where as jesus said whoever endures to the end will be saved.
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This is were the dispensationals err and disagree among themselves.

Because they misunderstand the nature of the heavens and earth where John clearly states that there are still sinners "without are dogs".

They are contradicting John's statement which is basically what Isaiah says about the new heavens and earth, there is still death, sinners and the serpent.

Are you premil or amil?
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Neither
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
#52
azamzimtoti said:
This is were the dispensationals err and disagree among themselves.

Because they misunderstand the nature of the heavens and earth where John clearly states that there are still sinners "without are dogs".

They are contradicting John's statement which is basically what Isaiah says about the new heavens and earth, there is still death, sinners and the serpent.
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Ok, In the book “things to come”

You should have studied more. See page 444, 488, 489, 490, 503, 569, in fact, Look in the index, you will see most of the passage is quoted in the “millennial section of the book

Even the passage you gave, Where he said theire is death in the millennium (IS 65: 20) So I am sorry, But it seems like he pulls one verse out and calls that ending (new heaven) and the rest he associates with the millennium.

Mr pentecost changed alot of my views. But I do not agree with everything he says.

Either way, You stil have to answer why there is birth and death in the eternal state, you have failed to do so. Until you do that, again, You have no argument

Neither
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Thats a bit impossible. You either believe we are in the millenium age (amil) or the millennium is yet to come. (Pre-mil)
 
G

GHClarkII

Active member
#53
Mar 20, 2019
150
35
28
#53
MattforJesus said:
But this is speaking of the reign of Christ on earth, not the New Jerusalem, the new earth, and new heaven.

When there is peace on earth, and people will not fight with each other, and animals will not fight with each other, and people and animals will not fear each other.

Which God will fight the world that rebelled against Him, and defeat them, and save Israel, and Jesus and the saints will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

When the LORD is King over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one.

And the heathen have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship Jesus, and keep the feast of tabernacles to be right with God for they cannot have the Spirit, and cannot be saved for they took the mark of the beast.

When Jesus rules for 1000 years on earth He will have fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth, and the law will be fulfilled, and then heaven and earth shall pass away.

Jesus had to fulfill the law, which He was sinless, and all the roles associated with Israel, as King, High Priest, Saint, Prophet, Temple, sacrifice, and whatever else He had to fulfill.

But He has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth, and it has to be done on earth.
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This is all conjecture. You just said this isn't the new heavens and new earth, but the verse starts by saying that it is. Did you even read the verse? So you think we are ignorant of what it says??
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#54
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#54
I found the title of this thread to be more than a little bit deceiving. Lets be clear that Satan will never see the New Heaven descending nor the New Earth after the Millenium and White Throne Judgement.

20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#55
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#55
eternally-gratefull said:
Ok, In the book “things to come”

You should have studied more. See page 444, 488, 489, 490, 503, 569, in fact, Look in the index, you will see most of the passage is quoted in the “millennial section of the book

Even the passage you gave, Where he said theire is death in the millennium (IS 65: 20) So I am sorry, But it seems like he pulls one verse out and calls that ending (new heaven) and the rest he associates with the millennium.

Mr pentecost changed alot of my views. But I do not agree with everything he says.

Either way, You stil have to answer why there is birth and death in the eternal state, you have failed to do so. Until you do that, again, You have no argument



Thats a bit impossible. You either believe we are in the millenium age (amil) or the millennium is yet to come. (Pre-mil)
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I just quoted Pentecost because he is typical of dispensational thought as in the new heavens and earth of Isaiah is the same as Peter and John EG not to get in depth into Pentecost's book.

"Either way, You still have to answer why there is birth and death in the eternal state, you have failed to do so. Until you do that, again, You have no argument"

I have answered it, there is no birth and death in the "eternal state", and this is the problem with the end of the world theologies.

The assumption is that the "eternal state" is either considered to be the new heavens and earth or after it.

My position is that the "eternal state" is a misnomer in connection to the new heaven and earth and or the eternal state.

There is no end of the world or any end to the new heavens and earth of Isaiah, Peter and John.

(Eccl 1:4 A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#56
#56
azamzimtoti said:
I just quoted Pentecost because he is typical of dispensational thought as in the new heavens and earth of Isaiah is the same as Peter and John EG not to get in depth into Pentecost's book.

"Either way, You still have to answer why there is birth and death in the eternal state, you have failed to do so. Until you do that, again, You have no argument"

I have answered it, there is no birth and death in the "eternal state", and this is the problem with the end of the world theologies.

The assumption is that the "eternal state" is either considered to be the new heavens and earth or after it.

My position is that the "eternal state" is a misnomer in connection to the new heaven and earth and or the eternal state.

There is no end of the world or any end to the new heavens and earth of Isaiah, Peter and John.

(Eccl 1:4 A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.)
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I need to read over this thread, I am a little confused. :unsure:
 
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